GDT: Sharks vs Lightning - The Tankathon Continues - 7:30

[TheBeard]

so like i dunno. do you need a 100+ point player to be competitive in today's league? are any of these players including celebrini that?

Like, in a career?

 

[LilLeeroy]

Remember this moment, good people, because until the next loss this is the lowest point in the history of the franchise. Remember it when things are good again. I won't be able to because I'll probably have died of old age by then, but if you're under 30 relish the good times.

On the way to locking in best odds for a franchise changing talent is a hell of a lot better than the 2019-20 season.

 

[TheBeard]

On the way to locking in best odds for a franchise changing talent is a hell of a lot better than the 2019-20 season.

It means nothing if we don't get first.

That's the problem for all this. The team took tanking to the absolute extreme. Like unwatchable, embarrassing, worst season in the history of a franchise that's had some pretty bad seasons especially in the beginning. No one in the stands, nothing to feel good about, just 65 or so games of sheer sadness. And for what?

A 25% chance to pick first.

Yay.

 

[LilLeeroy]

It means nothing if we don't get first.

That's the problem for all this. The team took tanking to the absolute extreme. Like unwatchable, embarrassing, worst season in the history of a franchise that's had some pretty bad seasons especially in the beginning. No one in the stands, nothing to feel good about, just 65 or so games of sheer sadness. And for what?

A 25% chance to pick first.

Yay.

And we'll still get a fantastic prospect at 2-3.

Don't know how you can possibly say the situation we are in now is worse than giving another team a top 3 pick, being in the worst cap situation in history, and your best prospect being Ryan Merkley.

 

[Sandisfan]

And we'll still get a fantastic prospect at 2-3.

Don't know how you can possibly say the situation we are in now is worse than giving another team a top 3 pick, being in the worst cap situation in history, and your best prospect being Ryan Merkley.

Merkley was never considered our best prospect on this board.

 

[TheBeard]

And we'll still get a fantastic prospect at 2-3.

Don't know how you can possibly say the situation we are in now is worse than giving another team a top 3 pick, being in the worst cap situation in history, and your best prospect being Ryan Merkley.

None of this applied when this season began. The sheer fact the Grier admitted to Hasso the "season wasn't going as well as he hoped" is either blatant lying to the owner or Grier acknowledged he took things way too far and the only salvation is getting first. Beyond Macklin you can make a case for 7-8 guys worthy of being picked 2nd. There's been no development of any of the young kids in our system including Eklund and the only reason we have as many point as we do is because Blackwood of all people stood on his head more than he's ever done in his career.

The entire season hinges on winning the lotto because frankly, wasting a year of my life watching this team lose by 3 or more goals like 40 times wasn't worth it if we don't. I'm sure we'll end up 2nd and we'll ultimately draft another Zyuzin or Rathje like we tend to do.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Merkley was never considered our best prospect on this board.

Through a couple seconds of searching this seems to disagree with you

San Jose Sharks #5 prospect

After a disappointing July 1, let's get into another disappointing topic! Our prospects 1. Ryan Merkley-73.1% 2. Rudolf Balcers-50.0% 3. Dylan Gambrell-34.0% 4. Josh Norris-37.5% Let me know who you think I should add Planning on going to at least 10 but could go more (depending on if there's...

forums.hfboards.com

I'll try to find the 2020 vote to see if he was still #1 then.

 

[LilLeeroy]

None of this applied when this season began. The sheer fact the Grier admitted to Hasso the "season wasn't going as well as he hoped" is either blatant lying to the owner or Grier acknowledged he took things way too far and the only salvation is getting first. Beyond Macklin you can make a case for 7-8 guys worthy of being picked 2nd. There's been no development of any of the young kids in our system including Eklund and the only reason we have as many point as we do is because Blackwood of all people stood on his head more than he's ever done in his career.

The entire season hinges on winning the lotto because frankly, wasting a year of my life watching this team lose by 3 or more goals like 40 times wasn't worth it if we don't. I'm sure we'll end up 2nd and we'll ultimately draft another Zyuzin or Rathje like we tend to do.

I mean you hope all the bargain bins guys you sign turn into studs that help you win, but even the best GMs can't do that consistently.

Prospects being grouped up like that is not at all uncommon, guys always separate themselves though in the months before the draft. Having a guaranteed top 3 pick is a great position to be in.

Both Eklund and Mukh have developed and rounded out there game this season. Sure Eklund is probably never going to be a star that carries the line and guys drafted after him will probably end up better, but that happens all the time even in good rebuilds. Do you hear Colorado fans crying about how they drafted Byram over Seider?

The moron Doug Wilson and his even dumber son are finally gone, that is definitely something to be excited about.

 

[LadyStanley]

#injuryconcerns

 

[TheBeard]

I mean you hope all the bargain bins guys you sign turn into studs that help you win, but even the best GMs can't do that consistently.

Prospects being grouped up like that is not at all uncommon, guys always separate themselves though in the months before the draft. Having a guaranteed top 3 pick is a great position to be in.

Both Eklund and Mukh have developed and rounded out there game this season. Sure Eklund is probably never going to be a star that carries he line and guys drafted after him will probably end up better, but that happens all the time even in good rebuilds. Do you hear Colorado fans crying about how they drafted Byram over Seider?

The moron Doug Wilson and his even dumber son are finally gone, that is definitely something to be excited about.

Doug being gone is basically the only positive from this season, but frankly having a season like this and ultimately not getting number one would be perhaps the most demoralizing thing that could have possibly happened.

Also, using the Bowen Byram example doesn’t really do you any favors as Colorado (by way of Ottawa) and LA had the top two odds that year of getting first overall (Hughes) and both ultimately dropped three spots to get Byram and Turcotte. Hell, even the other two elite-ish prospects that went 2 and 3, Kakko and Dach underwhelmed.

 

[Jargon]

None of this applied when this season began. The sheer fact the Grier admitted to Hasso the "season wasn't going as well as he hoped" is either blatant lying to the owner or Grier acknowledged he took things way too far and the only salvation is getting first. Beyond Macklin you can make a case for 7-8 guys worthy of being picked 2nd. There's been no development of any of the young kids in our system including Eklund and the only reason we have as many point as we do is because Blackwood of all people stood on his head more than he's ever done in his career.

The entire season hinges on winning the lotto because frankly, wasting a year of my life watching this team lose by 3 or more goals like 40 times wasn't worth it if we don't. I'm sure we'll end up 2nd and we'll ultimately draft another Zyuzin or Rathje like we tend to do.

Grier went into the season expecting Hertl - Couture - Granlund - Sturm down the middle. Not Granlund - Eklund as his 1C/2C (which was the case BEFORE Hertl was traded). Of course this season went worse than he planned — the injuries were absolutely absurd. If we had the lineup healthy we’d be leagues better than what we turned out to be.

Zetterlund had a great development year, Guschin and Muhk took big steps forward and are ready to push for an NHL spot. So is Bordeleau. Eklund is growing and learning - he’ll be better next year. Zadina might still grow into something.

And we have four 1st round picks in 2 years.

And a ton of our prospects are having great years.

It’s been a depressing year but a necessary one and this summer, I suspect Grier will do actual team building.

It’s been a hard year but I think there’s plenty to look forward to and sooner than you think.

 

[TheBeard]

Grier went into the season expecting Hertl - Couture - Granlund - Sturm down the middle. Not Granlund - Eklund as his 1C/2C (which was the case BEFORE Hertl was traded). Of course this season went worse than he planned — the injuries were absolutely absurd. If we had the lineup healthy we’d be leagues better than what we turned out to be.

Zetterlund had a great development year, Guschin and Muhk took big steps forward and are ready to push for an NHL spot. So is Bordeleau. Eklund is growing and learning - he’ll be better next year. Zadina might still grow into something.

And we have four 1st round picks in 2 years.

And a ton of our prospects are having great years.

It’s been a depressing year but a necessary one and this summer, I suspect Grier will do actual team building.

It’s been a hard year but I think there’s plenty to look forward to and sooner than you think.

I do too, however the extent of how bad this year has been and considering that for the most part everyone mentioned in your post was already a part of the team before the season even started, the only things we actually gained were the first from Vegas and Edstrom. I stand by my statement, the extent to which we tanked has only one possible outcome where it wouldn't be an out and out failure. Winning first overall. If Chicago wins, it's absolutely brutal. If divisional rivals Anaheim, who DOES have a plethora of top-tier prospect talent already wins, that's almost just as bad.

 

[coooldude]

I do too, however the extent of how bad this year has been and considering that for the most part everyone mentioned in your post was already a part of the team before the season even started, the only things we actually gained were the first from Vegas and Edstrom. I stand by my statement, the extent to which we tanked has only one possible outcome where it wouldn't be an out and out failure. Winning first overall. If Chicago wins, it's absolutely brutal. If divisional rivals Anaheim, who DOES have a plethora of top-tier prospect talent already wins, that's almost just as bad.

We started the year hoping we'd get the best chance at celebrini. We currently are achieving that even though Chicago is hopelessly dog shit to the tune of 10-15 points worse than last year.

You never know what's going to happen. Maybe Celebrini is the next MacKinnon, maybe he completely flames out. Maybe whoever we pick at 2nd, 3rd, or 4th ends up hitting their ceiling.

The only thing that matters is a sustained period of high draft picks and giving yourself the best possible chance at franchise players. I'm less concerned about losing now and more concerned about trying to come out of it too early. Anaheim and Chicago are tanking right and they still might fail at it and find themselves in purgatory. We need to do the same and we're starting 2 years behind CHI and like 4 behind ANA.

The alternative to this season would be worse... I'd rather be us right now than MTL, STL, MIN, etc.

 

[TheBeard]

The alternative to this season would be worse... I'd rather be us right now than MTL, STL, MIN, etc.

I don't know if I agree with that. Montreal's got a pretty decent prospect pool not to mention already established young talent on the big club like Caufield, Slaf and Suzuki. They're also still probably gonna end up with a top ten pick, which, if we don't pick first is basically more or less the same tier as where we pick). St Louis at least has a cup in the last few years and Minnesota is still in contention and has a pretty impressive group of young talent and prospects including two young goalies in Gustafson and Wallstedt. They have superstars in KK and JEE and another on the verge in Boldy (not to mention a potential Calder winner on the blue line in Faber). I believe their brutal buyouts are done after next year and I don't believe they're retaining on anyone.

 

[LilLeeroy]

I don't know if I agree with that. Montreal's got a pretty decent prospect pool not to mention already established young talent on the big club like Caufield, Slaf and Suzuki. They're also still probably gonna end up with a top ten pick, which, if we don't pick first is basically more or less the same tier as where we pick). St Louis at least has a cup in the last few years and Minnesota is still in contention and has a pretty impressive group of young talent and prospects including two young goalies in Gustafson and Wallstedt. They have superstars in KK and JEE and another on the verge in Boldy (not to mention a potential Calder winner on the blue line in Faber). I believe their brutal buyouts are done after next year and I don't believe they're retaining on anyone.

They're also 2-3 years ahead and their previous GM didn't do as much damage as ours did.

 

[TheBeard]

They're also 2-3 years ahead and their previous GM didn't do as much damage as ours did.

Which team? I also forgot to mention Montreal has 13 draft picks this upcoming year and another 12 in 2025 which includes 12 of those in the first 3 rounds. Why? Because Hughes didn't just go bargain hunting for discounts. Managing to get two 1sts for Monahan was an absolute masterclass. He ultimately got more for Monahan than we did for our team's best player over the last decade.

 

[tiburon12]

I would like to thank Randy Hahn for this loss. Spent the 2nd intermission saying how Point had been silent, and in true Randy Curse fashion, Point delivered.

In Randy we Trust

 

[stator]

Which team? I also forgot to mention Montreal has 13 draft picks this upcoming year and another 12 in 2025 which includes 12 of those in the first 3 rounds. Why? Because Hughes didn't just go bargain hunting for discounts. Managing to get two 1sts for Monahan was an absolute masterclass. He ultimately got more for Monahan than we did for our team's best player over the last decade.

Actually just one, the condition on the 3rd round pick being upgraded to 1st round is ridiculous.

 

[Barrie22]

Which team? I also forgot to mention Montreal has 13 draft picks this upcoming year and another 12 in 2025 which includes 12 of those in the first 3 rounds. Why? Because Hughes didn't just go bargain hunting for discounts. Managing to get two 1sts for Monahan was an absolute masterclass. He ultimately got more for Monahan than we did for our team's best player over the last decade.

Not sure where you got the information for getting 2 1st for him. The trade was a 1st and a conditional 3rd (that won't happen, so only a first for a UFA)

 

[Hodge]

Remember this moment, good people, because until the next loss this is the lowest point in the history of the franchise. Remember it when things are good again. I won't be able to because I'll probably have died of old age by then, but if you're under 30 relish the good times.

What makes you think we won't be even worse next season?

 

[TheBeard]

Not sure where you got the information for getting 2 1st for him. The trade was a 1st and a conditional 3rd (that won't happen, so only a first for a UFA)

They also got a first for taking him.

 

[coooldude]

We needed to tank, we are tanking, the tanking is going the best it could, our shit long term NMC contracts are moved. Everything is on plan, but it's not fun and maybe less fun than some people expected. Expect even more pain because it's gonna be painful until 2026 at a minimum and then we start asking questions of whether these youngsters that we were so excited about were actually good enough, or whether the coaching is hurting us, etc. Happens everywhere - happened at the cup winners ("Stamkos/MacKinnon just aren't winners") and it's happening today in NJD and BUF and ANA.

Full tank rebuilds 50% of the time fail and 50% of the time result in a perennial contender. I'll take those odds no matter how painful.

 

[TheBeard]

What makes you think we won't be even worse next season?

There is zero chance Grier will let that happen. If he does it’s because he’s bad at his job and not because he’s purposely trying to tank. Like it or not, being the GM of a team thats been out scored an average of 2.1 goals a game for a season regardless of rebuilding or not doesn’t reflect well on them if it’s more than one season.

 

[Alaskanice]

My math may be off by one or so but I believe we've been outscored 141-1 in third periods in the past week.

NGL, I really wish McCarthy didn't piss off Martin Kaut because he probably would have been a top 5 scorer on our team.

I have wondered about this. Maybe he was just too much trouble? It seemed he was happy here. Would that have changed after trading Hertl, had he been here? Hmm.

 

[Hodge]

There is zero chance Grier will let that happen. If he does it’s because he’s bad at his job and not because he’s purposely trying to tank. Like it or not, being the GM of a team thats been out scored an average of 2.1 goals a game for a season regardless of rebuilding or not doesn’t reflect well on them if it’s more than one season.

It's not up to Grier. There are few impact free agents available to begin with and it's very unlikely any of them will sign with the Sharks. Trading futures for an established star doesn't make sense. Most likely the players Grier brings in this offseason will be marginal upgrades over the likes of Duclair, Barabanov, Hoffman, Labanc, etc. who need to be replaced.

More significantly, we will be get 0 games out of Hertl next season instead of 48. As you mentioned our goaltending has actually been pretty good this season so odds are it will be worse next year. I think we should expect the Sharks to be worse next season, not better.