Prospect Info: Sharks Prospect Info & Discussion Thread XX

[Sharksrule04]

I think he’s too high on Bordeleau and Merkley but overall a realistic write up and ranking. Three years in the basement and all we have to show for it is a bottom ten prospect pool. Yet some fans think Dougs Sr. and Jr. should still be running the show.

His rankings aren't necessarily a prospect pool. It's all 22 and below within a franchise. If it was purely prospects (non-NHL players) the Sharks would be higher on this list.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Also against rules he agreed to when he signed up:

2) Trolling: Do not make posts that could be interpreted as though they were made to cause an argument or provoke others. Making generalizations about other posters is a common form of trolling. Posting questionable content on team boards, particularly those of rivals, is likely to be seen as trolling.

Every post he makes goes against this rule. Kinda confused how Hodge is still here as he goes beyond standard trolling. I agree with some of his logic and actually hockey insight can at times be 100% reasonable but he always wraps it up with some comment meant to crap on others or create anger/hostility. Just completely unnecessary.

If that post violates the rule then 80% of posts will do so. Because any post that rebuts a point or presents a differing opinion can cause or argument or be provoking.

The spirit of the rule is more like that American idiom; you know it when you see it.

You're the resident Hodge defender, we get it. If you can't see trolling in his posts then you won't see it anywhere on the internet.

 

[spintops]

Ignore button spared me all the shitposting

Dodge the hodge

 

[DG93]

Every post he makes goes against this rule. Kinda confused how Hodge is still here as he goes beyond standard trolling. I agree with some of his logic and actually hockey insight can at times be 100% reasonable but he always wraps it up with some comment meant to crap on others or create anger/hostility. Just completely unnecessary.


You're the resident Hodge defender, we get it. If you can't see trolling in his posts then you won't see it anywhere on the internet.

It's more like he makes very valid and reasonable hockey arguments but wraps it up in smugness. I don't know if I'd call that trolling vs. just being rude. That being said, he's been right about quite a bit after being dismissed as "a hater."

 

[OrrNumber4]

Every post he makes goes against this rule. Kinda confused how Hodge is still here as he goes beyond standard trolling. I agree with some of his logic and actually hockey insight can at times be 100% reasonable but he always wraps it up with some comment meant to crap on others or create anger/hostility. Just completely unnecessary.


You're the resident Hodge defender, we get it. If you can't see trolling in his posts then you won't see it anywhere on the internet.

Can't you see the irony of your post?

It's more like he makes very valid and reasonable hockey arguments but wraps it up in smugness. I don't know if I'd call that trolling vs. just being rude. That being said, he's been right about quite a bit after being dismissed as "a hater."

Smugness; yes, that's a great way of putting it.

For all his smugness and hot takes, when has Hodge attacked another poster, like you all are doing here? I see people with whole posts devoted to ad-hominem attacks.

 

[Sharksrule04]

Can't you see the irony of your post?


Smugness; yes, that's a great way of putting it.

For all his smugness and hot takes, when has Hodge attacked another poster, like you all are doing here? I see people with whole posts devoted to ad-hominem attacks.

Attacking behavior is not attacking a person.

 

[Sharksrule04]

It's more like he makes very valid and reasonable hockey arguments but wraps it up in smugness. I don't know if I'd call that trolling vs. just being rude. That being said, he's been right about quite a bit after being dismissed as "a hater."

Yea I’ve actually agreed with some of his opinions and I’m sure Hodge actually has decent hockey knowledge. Having knowledge doesn’t offset the trolling though.

Just curious what he’s been right about though? I’ve seen a ton of bashing of our prospects and fantasizing about how much everyone overrates them (they really don’t they just talk about upside, quite different than overrating) but I haven’t seen any of the thousand definitIve statements and or bashings really pan out.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Yea I’ve actually agreed with some of his opinions and I’m sure Hodge actually has decent hockey knowledge. Having knowledge doesn’t offset the trolling though.

Just curious what he’s been right about though? I’ve seen a ton of bashing of our prospects and fantasizing about how much everyone overrates them (they really don’t they just talk about upside, quite different than overrating) but I haven’t seen any of the thousand definitIve statements and or bashings really pan out.

It's not about being right. It's only about not being proven wrong. When the goalposts move or when statements come in bunches it's hard to prove someone wrong.

For example if I say:

Gushchin, Robins and Coe are all busts relative to the hype they've generated.

When am I wrong? If 3/3 bust I'm right.

Am I wrong if 2/3 bust and one makes it? No I'll just argue that the majority busted so I'm right and also X prospect I didn't mention also busted so I'm right.

If 1/3 bust and the other 2 make it? Well how did they make it? Are they fourth liners and barely NHLers? Then I'm right.

If 1/3 bust and only 1 makes it to a decent level, 1 is a fourth liner, I'll argue that the one who made it has X flaw with their X ability so they'll never be Nikita Kucherov so I'm right. Besides did you see that guy who busted and that other dude is a fourth liner? Plus X prospect busted years ago and went back to X country so I'm right.

And obviously not all of them are going to make it, so I'm right.

 

[hohosaregood]

It's not about being right. It's only about not being proven wrong. When the goalposts move or when statements come in bunches it's hard to prove someone wrong.

For example if I say:

Gushchin, Robins and Coe are all busts relative to the hype they've generated.

When am I wrong? If 3/3 bust I'm right.

Am I wrong if 2/3 bust and one makes it? No I'll just argue that the majority busted so I'm right and also X prospect I didn't mention also busted so I'm right.

If 1/3 bust and the other 2 make it? Well how did they make it? Are they fourth liners and barely NHLers? Then I'm right.

If 1/3 bust and only 1 makes it to a decent level, 1 is a fourth liner, I'll argue that the one who made it has X flaw with their X ability so they'll never be Nikita Kucherov so I'm right. Besides did you see that guy who busted and that other dude is a fourth liner? Plus X prospect busted years ago and went back to X country so I'm right.

And obviously not all of them are going to make it, so I'm right.

Being negative is playing on easy mode in sports fandom. If you're right, then you get to lord it over people. If you're wrong, you can enjoy the team being good.

 

[Eggdoh]

You’ve hit on what makes Pronman problematic. He has no internal consistency and no method to his madness. He attempts to explain that exact thing with a canned statement every article trying to explain that those rankings are compared to an NHL average but cannot explain why certain players will be above average at everything yet ranked below players with worse grades. It’s baffling. He needs to rethink that system but seemingly doesn’t have the energy or the care to do so. He also does not actually spend the time to comb through prospects and just releases blurbs that are regurgitated from other outlets about players. He has a really poor grasp on skating analysis IMO as well but that’s a personal opinion. As someone who spends too much time on amateur prospect analysis, he’s really infuriating. His job is difficult because he’s essentially tasked with being “the guy” for the Athletic, and covering that much ground for every team is extremely difficult, and I personally believe he is cutting corners and isn’t putting his actual ability into it.

That’s the rant.

I have to say, I used to be very impressed by Pronman, but the more I pay attention, the more I come to agree with your assessment of his rating system. It's never going to be an exact science, and sometimes the whole is greater/lesser than the sum of the parts, but your comment re: Tristen Robins is spot on.

I'm curious, what is it about his skating analysis that is so poor? Is that part of why he has Coe as a below average NHL skater when most scouting reports I've read are impressed with his skating (especially for a big frame)?

As for the rankings themselves, I can understand not being high on Gushchin, but his placement relative to Wiesblatt's makes no sense. I'm also not sure I like Havelid at #4 on the list, but maybe that's because I've been disappointed thus far by Merkley and Kniazev's development and I'm afraid Havelid is another defenseman in that vein.

 

[tiburon12]

You’ve hit on what makes Pronman problematic. He has no internal consistency and no method to his madness. He attempts to explain that exact thing with a canned statement every article trying to explain that those rankings are compared to an NHL average but cannot explain why certain players will be above average at everything yet ranked below players with worse grades. It’s baffling. He needs to rethink that system but seemingly doesn’t have the energy or the care to do so. He also does not actually spend the time to comb through prospects and just releases blurbs that are regurgitated from other outlets about players. He has a really poor grasp on skating analysis IMO as well but that’s a personal opinion. As someone who spends too much time on amateur prospect analysis, he’s really infuriating. His job is difficult because he’s essentially tasked with being “the guy” for the Athletic, and covering that much ground for every team is extremely difficult, and I personally believe he is cutting corners and isn’t putting his actual ability into it.

That’s the rant.

I'm too lazy to parse through all the writeups he's done about Merkley, but im very sure they are 85% the same "analysis" after he summarizes the previous seasons's counting stats. Probably the same for many other players.

He definitely has way too much under his purview

Yea I’ve actually agreed with some of his opinions and I’m sure Hodge actually has decent hockey knowledge. Having knowledge doesn’t offset the trolling though.

Just curious what he’s been right about though? I’ve seen a ton of bashing of our prospects and fantasizing about how much everyone overrates them (they really don’t they just talk about upside, quite different than overrating) but I haven’t seen any of the thousand definitIve statements and or bashings really pan out.

He hasn't been around long enough to see most of the "predictions" come true. And even though it's clear Hodge is a smart hockey fan, what bugs me about their "predictions" is that they are devoid of any risk taking or personal feeling and emotions. That's fine and is a perfectly level-headed and reasonable way to be a fan. But most fans on this forum make hopeful predictions for our collective entertainment and to stimulate conversation. Asserting an overly cautious and pragmatic opinion in such an environment and then boasting when the hopefuls are wrong is just grating.

It's like your team is down two goals with 2 mins left. Hopefuls would say "we can still win this!", whereas Hodge might say "no chance, you're wrong to get your hopes up" and then "see I told you" when the team loses.

It's not very fun to engage with

 

[Kcoyote3]

I have to say, I used to be very impressed by Pronman, but the more I pay attention, the more I come to agree with your assessment of his rating system. It's never going to be an exact science, and sometimes the whole is greater/lesser than the sum of the parts, but your comment re: Tristen Robins is spot on.

I'm curious, what is it about his skating analysis that is so poor? Is that part of why he has Coe as a below average NHL skater when most scouting reports I've read are impressed with his skating (especially for a big frame)?

As for the rankings themselves, I can understand not being high on Gushchin, but his placement relative to Wiesblatt's makes no sense. I'm also not sure I like Havelid at #4 on the list, but maybe that's because I've been disappointed thus far by Merkley and Kniazev's development and I'm afraid Havelid is another defenseman in that vein.

I think it’s just inconsistency with the skating analysis. Coe is a good example of it because he’s not a below average skater at all. He’s actually pretty fluid and can get to a top speed pretty quick. But overall I think he sort of makes it up tbh. Or is guessing after watching a few clips or something

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Nice forecheck and assist from Bystedt.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Nice forecheck and assist from Bystedt.

He's always gathering loose pucks it seems. It's a good trait.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Nice forecheck and assist from Bystedt.

Future Sharks teammates.

 

[hohosaregood]

He's always gathering loose pucks it seems. It's a good trait.

So I should expect Swedish Nichushkin as the guaranteed upside.

 

[Hodge]

So I should expect Swedish Nichushkin as the guaranteed upside.

Maybe the Dallas version of Nichushkin. Which would still be a positive outcome given where he was drafted.

 

[Kcoyote3]

2 goals and an assist for Bystedt in an 11-1 win over Slovakia in the 4 nations. Going to watch it later and make a post about his two games so far.

 

[Bowie22]

 

[Sharksrule04]

I have to say, I used to be very impressed by Pronman, but the more I pay attention, the more I come to agree with your assessment of his rating system. It's never going to be an exact science, and sometimes the whole is greater/lesser than the sum of the parts, but your comment re: Tristen Robins is spot on.

I'm curious, what is it about his skating analysis that is so poor? Is that part of why he has Coe as a below average NHL skater when most scouting reports I've read are impressed with his skating (especially for a big frame)?

As for the rankings themselves, I can understand not being high on Gushchin, but his placement relative to Wiesblatt's makes no sense. I'm also not sure I like Havelid at #4 on the list, but maybe that's because I've been disappointed thus far by Merkley and Kniazev's development and I'm afraid Havelid is another defenseman in that vein.

Yea I have also soured on Pronman a bit over the years. I actually liked his material a lot more back 2-3 years ago, but I feel like he widened his scope a bit more than he can handle. Pronman was actually the main reason I signed up for The Athletic back when it started but now I find myself following other sources.

As for Robins, his ratings totally confused me. He probably had the best categorical ratings of any Sharks prospect but he isn’t rated terribly high. Also Coe is a really decent skater, especially for his size. Has been for years so it’s not like it drastically improved. Just felt like he wasn’t watching the players with some of his ratings.

 

[hohosaregood]

Bystedt and Havelid getting assists on a Carlsson goal. Feels like Carlsson is destined to be the guy we just miss out on.

 

[Gecklund]

 

[Bowie22]

Bustedt

 

[Kcoyote3]

Four Nations Tournament 2022 Scouting Report - Filip Bystedt and notes on Leo Carlsson, others!

The FET from Bystedt's Youtube Video: Filip Bystedt #18: In short, Bystedt, sporting #18 this tournament instead of #21 like the above graphic states, had an excellent three game tournament for Sweden's U20 squad. He led all players in scoring, with 3 goals, 4 assists, 7 points in 3 games. He...

www.half-wallhockey.com

Are we allowed to promote our own content here? Am I going to be smote?

 

[hohosaregood]

Four Nations Tournament 2022 Scouting Report - Filip Bystedt and notes on Leo Carlsson, others!

The FET from Bystedt's Youtube Video: Filip Bystedt #18: In short, Bystedt, sporting #18 this tournament instead of #21 like the above graphic states, had an excellent three game tournament for Sweden's U20 squad. He led all players in scoring, with 3 goals, 4 assists, 7 points in 3 games. He...

www.half-wallhockey.com

Are we allowed to promote our own content here? Am I going to be smote?

Considering you already have a thread of content, I think you're in the clear.