Sens Lounge LXXXVIII | Can I Borrow A Feeling?

[BonkTastic]

Thats not good advice. It's not ok for long term health.

Source?

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

People always get so fired up about health & nutrition topics whenever I see it talked about.

I feel like it needs to be added to the don't talk about finances, religion, and politics golden rule, now add nutrition.

My life philosophy, not just about nutrition, is everything in moderation and you'll be okay.

 

[maclean]

I read every post and I still can't figure out why it turned into a ****-storm

Finances seemed to be going along just fine, though that's probably owing to the fact that pretty much everyone here is rolling in it

 

[Harbinger]

I consume milk and meat on a daily basis. Dinner tonight is grilled chicken and a baked potato.

 

[BonkTastic]

I consume milk and meat on a daily basis. Dinner tonight is grilled chicken and a baked potato.

I roasted a chicken in the oven with some potatoes, heirloom carrots, and some kale chips.

It's my kids favorite meal. If I need to be concerned with anything, it's the speed at which they ate it at, haha.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I roasted a chicken in the oven with some potatoes, heirloom carrots, and some kale chips.

It's my kids favorite meal. If I need to be concerned with anything, it's the speed at which they ate it at, haha.

I will be eating skinless chicken breast and brown rice drowned in hot sauce.

Yours sounds better.

 

[Harbinger]

I roasted a chicken in the oven with some potatoes, heirloom carrots, and some kale chips.

It's my kids favorite meal. If I need to be concerned with anything, it's the speed at which they ate it at, haha.

sounds delicious, though I've never had kale chips before.

 

[Engineer]

sounds delicious, though I've never had kale chips before.

surprisingly not bad... if you coat them in salt lol..

 

[Micklebot]

I will be eating skinless chicken breast and brown rice drowned in hot sauce.

Yours sounds better.

apparently brown rice has far more arsenic than White... but you can reduce that amount by 30% by rinsing it first.

https://www.yahoo.com/health/we-first-heard-the-bad-news-in-2012-rice-contains-103047447432.html

 

[Harbinger]

chicken, brown rice and carrots is a staple dinner round here.

 

[saskriders]

Being a picky eater sucks

 

[Engineer]

apparently brown rice has far more arsenic than White... but you can reduce that amount by 30% by rinsing it first.

https://www.yahoo.com/health/we-first-heard-the-bad-news-in-2012-rice-contains-103047447432.html

Interesting, something I never considered - I always considered rice to be very healthy. In the end not surprising I suppose, if you spray with contaminated fertilizers, it will affect the food.

They even have recommended servings to limit yourself to keep exposure low:

"People who ate rice had arsenic levels that were 44 percent greater than those who had not, according to our analysis of federal health data. And certain ethnic groups were more highly affected, including Mexicans, other Hispanics, and a broad category that includes Asians."

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

Thats not good advice. It's not ok for long term health.
Wait, what does he eat at night?

Haha, yeah. A little bit of a hippocrite since I eat 1,500 calories of chocolate and potato chips every other night (I actually think chocolate makes up about 20-40% of my diet since I started taking adderall )

Cool. So I guess that's something akin to body recomposition?

I'm hoping to do a bulk in the new year, and I'd like to do exactly what you described.

Yeah! That's a pretty accurate way of looking at it. I was always one of those "skinny fat" people. Kind of like a dad bod-lite. I've gone through phases where I am super into nutrition (almost obsessively) and go to the gym and do cardio every day. These usually last a couple of months and then I barely do anything right for the rest of the year. Finally in April 2014 I decided I was being an idiot and just tried to find something that was easy (in terms of time-management) for the gym and simple (in terms of nutrition).

Whenever you start, feel free to PM me, but here are some tips I would give you if you want to do something similar to what I did:

1) Find a lifting program/regime that you can be consistent with. There are a TON of beginner programs. Some of them you only go to the gym 3-4 times per week, and others you go 6 times a week. I started off with Stronglifts. I've been reading a lot of heated debates over the last couple of months about whether recommending something like Stronglifts (SL) or Starting Strength (SS... heil Hit..) to new people, because they will NOT make you jacked or super huge quickly (if at all).

The reason why they are good, in my opinion, is for a couple of reasons:
a) They are VERY simple. You only do 3 exercises in each session. I actually recommend adding pull-ups to the not-deadlift days. This means that you don't need to worry about stations or running around, and if you use the recommended breaks and warm ups you will be out of the gym in less then an hour (if you are strict you will be there for exactly 45 mins).

b) They have a linear progression. This means that it is very easy to track results and make sure you are pushing forward each session. Eventually you'll get to a point where you won't be able to add weight every session, but that'll take a few months and by then you'll sort of know what you are doing and can switch to more of a PPL (push, pull, legs) split, but don't worry about this for now.

c) All the exercises you do (including if you add in pull-ups like I recommended) are composite exercises. This means that you are activitating every muscle group. They also work hand in hand. When your squat goes up, so will your deadlift because your corse is stronger. Because your core and legs are stronger, you'll be able to be better planted on the benchpress and have better drive, so your bench gets stronger. Over head press will improve your bench and core stability as well. All your muscles will get stronger and grow evenly.

d) Because you are doing heavy lifts (non of these exercises are on machines), your metabolism will increase. This means you will be able to eat more (or lose weight faster if that's what you want). I am super happy with how I look so I just use this extra wiggle room for kit-kats (I've been about 12-14% body fat since about July and it's still very slowly decreasing despite all the chocolate I eat).

X) That being said, you won't get super jacked looking by doing SL or SS. You will just look lean and muscular. I call it the "Greek Statue" physique. If you look up pictures of statues of Ares, Apollo, or David (I know it was carved by an Italian), these guys are definitely muscular, but they aren't super shredded or have giant guns. Most of the time you see a slight 4-pack, generally defined major muscle groups. I think that's the "perfect" look for an adult male. This is just my opinion. Some guys wanna be like 9% body fat and super shredded, some guys wanna be like 250 lbs of muscle. Everyone finds different looks more appealling than others, but the "Greek Statue" look is, in my opinon, my favourite.

2) Diet. Although diet is the biggest thing when it comes to body recomp, it is NOT as precise as lifting. Although the general rules of metabolism, protein synthesis, cellular respiration, endocrine (hormone release) control, ect. are similar between everyone, I do not believe there is one-shoe-fits-all when it comes to diet. Here is some things to consider (or at least, I have considered and it's working for me and there is science behind it):

a) Despite what some of our vegan posters say, there is such a thing as complete proteins. Their most common sources are meat and meat products. That said, you can easily switch to a plant-based diet and still get them. Soy, in terms of just complete protein content, is the best "cheap" and accessible form. Quinoa also has them. Other foods, like brown/wild rice and some beans have them (but not all), but their amino acid contents aren't very balanced, so you'd have to mix the two (or add others). So, for example, if you normally eat steamed veggies and rice, maybe change it to steamed veggies and rice with beans, and have do a 50/50 split of your rice and beans. Complete proteins are vital for not only skeletal muscle growth, but also for healthy cellular reproduction within your body. If you don't want meat, that's fine, but make sure you do some research on which plants will get you what you need. Also, remember that if something has 99% essential amino acids, and another food has the missing 1, they will NOT be added together. They have to be 100% complete. The reason why rice and some beans work is because they are 100% complete, just their proportions aren't as ideal as with meat (because meat is made of the same stuff as us).

Also, I just want to add that the "rice + beans" thing is something I googled on my own time and is not something I learned in school. It may not actually be true (I feel like it makes sense in terms of numbers, but not so much in how metabolism actually happens, oh well). Because I eat mostly vegetables, I get a lot of my proteins from supplements (double chocolate fudge whey protein )

b) For the first month or two I would recommend counting your calories, macros, and all other nutrients. I have friends who do this on paper, but I personally used the app MyFitnessPal (it's got a website as well as an iOS and Android app that syncs with it). I say you only NEED to use it for the first few months because it will make you more aware of what you are eating. Once you know the gist of what is in what foods, you'll be able to eyeball it. I also think that, over the long-term (years), counting calories and the like is not sustainable by everyone. It takes extra willpower, which I lack exponentially.

That said, I am not a nutritionist. I just really like biology and have recently learned this stuff. I also have a gym program that has made me look good and I know I am very healthy and fit in generally (from blood tests to occurance of illness. All my medical problems are either genetic or flukes, and even those have gotten pretty insignificant)

Sorry for the long post. That's just what worked for me and still seems to work. I also forgot to metion that, in the summer, I usually have a lot more free time and I usually cycle / go on hikes and walks almost daily, and this past summer I was also doing MMA 5x per week. I was eating more so I didn't lose much weight.

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

I read every post and I still can't figure out why it turned into a ****-storm

Finances seemed to be going along just fine, though that's probably owing to the fact that pretty much everyone here is rolling in it

It's because a couple of people misread what I was saying. They assumed I recommended eating only chicken, milk, and eggs all day, when in fact I just said that if those are your only sources of protein, you should be good.

I feel like some people viewed my post as some sort of anti-vegan narrative. I think veganism is actually really good, especially if you live somewhere you can easily access those foods. Not everyone in the world has access to everything we do in Canada, but it is an admirable life-style. There is absolutely no doubt that meat production is extremely harmful to the environment the way it is done today. Although it this is subjective, I think it is also extremely sad and immoral the way we treat most of the animals in the meat industry.

In terms of health benefits, that itself is in the air. If you are a "clean" vegan, then sure. But being vegan does not mean you cannot eat candy, chips, junk food in general, and canned/processed salty unnatural food. A vegan who eats 5 bags of potato chips is not going to be healthier than an omnivore that eats lean meats and drinks milk on top of his daily vegetable intake.

Again, veganism is a GOOD movement. Meats should NOT be eliminated from the human diet; however, we should ALL try to eat mostly a variety vegetables if we want to have a good, healthy, balanced diet over the long term.

 

[Busboy]

CoolGuyDave

I'm not disputing the claim that protein sources have various amounts of amino acids. I am challenging the assertion that a complete amino acid profile is required for muscle growth.

What do you believe would happen to someone who does not consume complete proteins (ex. A vegan)?

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

CoolGuyDave

I'm not disputing the claim that protein sources have various amounts of amino acids. I am challenging the assertion that a complete amino acid profile is required for muscle growth.

What do you believe would happen to someone who does not consume complete proteins (ex. A vegan)?

Read the diet section of what I wrote to Mingus Dew and you'll have your answer

 

[Busboy]

Read the diet section of what I wrote to Mingus Dew and you'll have your answer

I did, I'm just not clear on what consequences you're proposing.

Let's say I never eat any animal products again, and tofu only once per week. What are you suggesting will happen? Muscle loss? Death? Illness? This is what I'm not clear on.

 

[Samsquanch]

I think it is hard for people to do because of the cost initially. For me, I was too busy paying off school loans to even be able to get a mortgage at a decent rate or one big enough to afford anything more than a tiny condo.

And even now with debt paid off and really being able to save, I'm not sure I have interest in income properties. While if you get good renters and such, it can work out, I just don't care to do that

I guess my point is that I see many, many 20 somethings try to get into the biggest/nicest house they can afford, and end up being house broke as a result.

I'm not questioning why more people in general don't buy houses, I know there's no shortage of road blocks in life that can prevent you from getting a mortgage.

I'm questioning why more people who are purchasing their first homes dont consider buying a duplex.

It doesnt cost anything extra just because it's a duplex, and with a little bit of patience (living in the smaller apartment in the duplex), the potential long term gains are massive.

 

[Benjamin]

CoolGuyDave

I'm not disputing the claim that protein sources have various amounts of amino acids. I am challenging the assertion that a complete amino acid profile is required for muscle growth.

What do you believe would happen to someone who does not consume complete proteins (ex. A vegan)?

A complete protein being needed for muscle growth is a fact, not an assertion.

 

[Icelevel]

surprisingly not bad... if you coat them in salt lol..

And sesame seeds

 

[Icelevel]

A complete protein being needed for muscle growth is a fact, not an assertion.

Right, the only issue is that it needs to come from one single food source. you can build muscle eating whole plant based foods and you can build muscle eating animals.
I don't know of any good reason to do the latter. Tradition? Taste? Not good reasons.

example: Raised vegetarian and vegan last 17 years



You can be just as strong, healthy and powerful eating this way. Not that you even need to be this muscular, but if that's something you want...

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

I did, I'm just not clear on what consequences you're proposing.

Let's say I never eat any animal products again, and tofu only once per week. What are you suggesting will happen? Muscle loss? Death? Illness? This is what I'm not clear on.

Depends on who you are and your lifestyle and the rest of your diet. I don't know why you are clinging to tofu. Soy is NOT the ONLY plant-based complete protein source. There are others. A lot of them are kind of uncommon or expensive. These include quinoa, buckwheat and some others. I honestly CANNOT tell you the amino acid content of every plant on earth. There may even be some breed of deep-sea plant on one of the moons of Jupiter that has complete proteins. I don't know.

If you do not consume complete proteins, then yeah. Muscle loss is one. If it's extremely long term and you eat ZERO complete proteins (which is hard to do) the you will also get sick. Your cells won't reproduce as well, and yeah, maybe you'll even die.

That said, the amount of complete proteins you need to LIVE and SUSTAIN muscle mass for the average, lightly active person is pretty low. Your body is really efficient. If you have brown rice or beans with your dinner most days you won't get sick or die or probably even lose too much of your muscle.

My point is that if you want SIGNIFICANT muscle GROWTH you need to up the complete protein intake. The exact number for this is unknown, but, IN GENERAL, the standard number used by most body builders and powerlifters TODAY is that .8g per lb is about the perfect amount to GROW. If you only have .1g or .2g, that doesn't mean you won't get bigger. That doesn't mean you'll die or get sick. It just means you won't grow that fast.

If you are switching to a new lifting program where you want to maximize your growth, you want to increase your complete protein intake. This is backed by science. There's been a ton of studies (I am SO tired of this discussion, please don't make me have to start digging) that prove that people who ate more protein over the case study had more muscle growth than the people who ate less. This does not mean that the people who ate less did not get bigger or stronger.

The reason why I told Kezia (and MingusDew) to eat lots of protein, is because the first few months of lifting is when people make the most progress. I just want them to take advantage of that like 2-4 months period. Do they HAVE to? No. Will it be beneficial to their muscular development? Yeah, 100%

I really hope that I have covered all my bases at this point.

TL;DR - There are more sources of complete proteins than just soy or meat. Some are just inconvenient to obtain and meat and soy is easy, cheap, and calorically efficient. You won't die if you don't have them that often, but it's really hard to eat ZERO complete proteins. More protein = more muscle. There is a base level of complete proteins you need. Research sources and supplements for more info.

 

[Busboy]

A complete protein being needed for muscle growth is a fact, not an assertion.

Stating that something is a fact doesn't help me understand it as such. I'm open to reading more on the subject to further my understanding.

Personally, I have had zero issues with muscle growth on a vegan diet. So when someone over the Internet is telling me that it's extremely difficult to do so because of "complete proteins" it should come as no surprise that I'm hesitant to accept this as a fact.

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

Right, the only issue is that it needs to come from one single food source. But someone eating a proper balanced whole foods diet doesn't even need to think about these things.

False. The protein itself HAS to be 100% complete. The amount of each amino acid it contains doesn't matter, but it MUST contain all of them. There is an All-or-Nothing rule with proteins. All incomplete proteins are not synthesized and are instead metabolized.

You are, however, right that if you have a well-balanced diet you don't need to worry about it, because the base level of complete proteins you need is pretty low. If, however, you are trying to build muscle, you do need to pay attention to where you get your proteins, because certain food sources are better/more efficient than others, and not all foods that contain "protein" contain complete proteins.

 

[Benjamin]

Right, the only issue is that it needs to come from one single food source. But someone eating a proper balanced whole foods diet doesn't even need to think about these things.

Yup. All that matters is that you get the 9 amino acids within a sometime similar time.

Disagree with the bold. You gotta make sure you getting the 9 amino acids. Not just combining two uncomplete proteins. Otherwise a lot of the protein is wasted.