Sens Lounge LXXXVIII | Can I Borrow A Feeling?

[Busboy]

False. The protein itself HAS to be 100% complete. The amount of each amino acid it contains doesn't matter, but it MUST contain all of them. There is an All-or-Nothing rule with proteins. All incomplete proteins are not synthesized and are instead metabolized.

You are, however, right that if you have a well-balanced diet you don't need to worry about it, because the base level of complete proteins you need is pretty low. If, however, you are trying to build muscle, you do need to pay attention to where you get your proteins, because certain food sources are better/more efficient than others, and not all foods that contain "protein" contain complete proteins.

K, we don't need to continue the complete protein discussion.

But I'm interested to know, what are you studying in school and what's your intended career path?

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

K, we don't need to continue the complete protein discussion.

But I'm interested to know, what are you studying in school and what's your intended career path?

Human anatomy and physiology (along with chemistry and psychology). My bio professor specializes in physiology -> specifically endocrinology and cellular reproduction.

I'm trying to get into nursing school.

That said, I have also been listening to a lot of evolutionary biology courses from Stanford and other schools, and I am hoping that, once I get my career in check, I want to eventually do my masters. I've had a few day dreams and visions about doing a PhD when I'm much older in evolutionary biology, specifically the effects of diet and exercise. I was hoping that I could do some volunteering in isolate areas where people have very limited diets (think Mongolia (mostly meat), South America (Mostly grains), the Polynesian islands (Mostly friuits and veggies), and trying to compile some sort of health comparison between these diets and comparing them to our own diets (which is more difficult due to diversity). This will probably never come to fruition, but it's something that I find super cool as of right now.

 

[Sensinitis]

Opinions on whether to become a notary or a lawyer ?

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

Opinions on whether to become a notary or a lawyer ?

E-mail some local firms / notaries and ask if you can volunteer and learn the ropes for a while. Do that for both. See which one you like more.

 

[Sensinitis]

I know pretty much what both jobs entail.

I feel that lawyer is much more vast though, compared to being a notary.

I like the fact of possibly being independent and being able to start off independently relatively fast for a notary though, and I feel like it's less stressful.

Idk.

 

[Caeldan]

aww. I missed a nutrition discussion.
However, I will say for the purposes of lifting and trying to lose visible fat/gain muscle -- 0.5g/lb is the minimum you want for protein. I'd actually target closer to 0.8g/lb as you will see for body recomposition the targets being anywhere from 1-1.5g/lb of lean body mass (ie whatever you weigh minus the weight of your body fat).... and the fact that every day you probably won't quite get there so it's basically setting a higher bar so you can at least hit the minimum required. I mean even the normal recommend amount works out to around 0.35g/lb for a sedentary adult (which some recent research seems to be pointing to it being too low)... so if you're actively trying to gain muscle obviously you need to increase from that.

Also, for whoever was saying they're running 5k 5x/wk and lifting 6x/wk... Assuming you are actually using a moderate intensity I'd say you'd be at much higher than 2400 calories a day as a maintenance target unless you're absolutely tiny to begin with. I know for myself when I did get a plan from a nutritionist friend -- it was about 3500 calories a day, and that was lifting 4x a week and hockey a few times week.. and I'm around 165/170lbs. I try to hit at least 3000 though.

In terms of lifting programs, I agree on starting out with Stronglifts or Starting Strength. SL5x5 is especially easy to get started on as the app tells you everything to do, and it doesn't include any Oly lifts which SS does as it incorporate cleans into the program.

I'd say to add pullups, ab and back work to every day's workout... though with ab work, I don't mean just crunches... I'm talking some things like planks and carries as well that work abs in a neutral spine position and a bit more isometrically. And back accessory work is critical to keeping your shoulders from getting too rounded forward.

 

[Busboy]

Human anatomy and physiology (along with chemistry and psychology). My bio professor specializes in physiology -> specifically endocrinology and cellular reproduction.

I'm trying to get into nursing school.

That said, I have also been listening to a lot of evolutionary biology courses from Stanford and other schools, and I am hoping that, once I get my career in check, I want to eventually do my masters. I've had a few day dreams and visions about doing a PhD when I'm much older in evolutionary biology, specifically the effects of diet and exercise. I was hoping that I could do some volunteering in isolate areas where people have very limited diets (think Mongolia (mostly meat), South America (Mostly grains), the Polynesian islands (Mostly friuits and veggies), and trying to compile some sort of health comparison between these diets and comparing them to our own diets (which is more difficult due to diversity). This will probably never come to fruition, but it's something that I find super cool as of right now.

Cool. I studied fitness and health in school and then worked for a while as a personal trainer but then found I was more interested in the application of change management and improving lifestyle factors on a wider scale than individuals.

If you're into endocrinology and lifting then you should definitely check out "the docs who lift." Very smart guys who speciliaize in endocrinology and obesity, they also happen to be ridiculously jacked and fit. They helped me a lot with my ability to evaluate research and applying information into the context of helping people.

Also worth checking out if you don't already know is research done in "the blue zones."

One thing I'll say is that I learned a lot in school about what supposedly works and doesn't work for building muscle and losing weight, etc. Once I got out and started actually working with individuals I was amazed at how often I would have clients follow what I had been taught and what was commonly accepted only to find that things often did not work how they were supposed to. After a while you realize that what's "known" is often suspect and faulty, or sometimes just downright backwards.

I hope this gives you some insight into why I was challenging you on the "complete protein" things. One of my biggest gripes with the fitness industry is the incessant desire to over complicate things by getting hung up on complex, yet often inconsequential functions of the human body.

From my experiences both personally, and having worked with hundreds of individuals, I do not see any value in advising people to be concerned about amino acids for muscle growth. I think this trends towards over complicating things. But maybe I'm wrong. Much smarter people than me have been much wronger about far less complex topics related to the human body.

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

aww. I missed a nutrition discussion.
However, I will say for the purposes of lifting and trying to lose visible fat/gain muscle -- 0.5g/lb is the minimum you want for protein. I'd actually target closer to 0.8g/lb as you will see for body recomposition the targets being anywhere from 1-1.5g/lb of lean body mass (ie whatever you weigh minus the weight of your body fat).... and the fact that every day you probably won't quite get there so it's basically setting a higher bar so you can at least hit the minimum required.

Also, for whoever was saying they're running 5k 5x/wk and lifting 6x/wk... Assuming you are actually using a moderate intensity I'd say you'd be at much higher than 2400 calories a day as a maintenance target unless you're absolutely tiny to begin with. I know for myself when I did get a plan from a nutritionist friend -- it was about 3500 calories a day, and that was lifting 4x a week and hockey a few times week.. and I'm around 165/170lbs. I try to hit at least 3000 though.

In terms of lifting programs, I agree on starting out with Stronglifts or Starting Strength. SL5x5 is especially easy to get started on as the app tells you everything to do, and it doesn't include any Oly lifts which SS does as it incorporate cleans into the program.

I'd say to add pullups, ab and back work to every day's workout... though with ab work, I don't mean just crunches... I'm talking some things like planks and carries as well that work abs in a neutral spine position and a bit more isometrically. And back accessory work is critical to keeping your shoulders from getting too rounded forward.

Yep, 100% this. I specifically only mentioned pull-ups because they target a part of your upper back that is not used quite as much in barbell rows or deadlifts. This is why you sometimes see guys at the gym / fitness forums who can bench 3 plates, deadlift 350+ lbs, but can't do a single pull up. They are hard to do. I started off not being able to do even one. EVER. In my entire life.

I just went and tried to do 3 sets of 1 pull up. At first, it was more 3 sets of 1/4 pullups. Then it turned into 3 sets of 1/2 a pull up. Then I finally was able to do 1 set of 1, then 2 of 1/2 a pull up. Once I got to 1/1/1 life got easier and I pretty quickly was able to go to 3x10. Now they are my primary exercise on my pull days (I do DL on leg days) and I do them 3x5 with the weighted belt. Goal is to be able to do 3x5 pullups with the 45lb plate.

Abs and back exercises are awesome supplements and they will totally help with all your lifts, but in the beginning I don't think they are that necessary if you start with Stronglifts, as the weight for the first few weeks is usually lower than what you can actually do. Not saying not to do back and ab accessory work, but just don't fret if you run out of time and don't get a chance to. Pull-ups, on the other hand, I strongly recommend trying to get them into the big picture.

And yeah, the app is awesome

 

[Caeldan]

With pullups, I used to be able to do a couple sets of about 20 (depending on the usual factors).
Nowadays though I seem to be plateauing out around two sets of 10... though honestly never really bother trying the third. Always make a point of doing them absolutely strict and chest to bar though. Been a while since I've done weighted. I do regularly change the grips around though a lot -- chinup, neutral, narrow, wide, thick bar, thin bar, 'rock climbing grip', etc.

Currently working on getting the fiancee to do her first full one... using the assistance machine most days on a tempo (roughly 3s negatives) and then telling her to do unassisted as slow as possible negatives at least once a week.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Bootcamp 5X a week, and your metric truck ton of pushups and chinup/pull up (wide and narrow grip).

Nice mix of body weight and cardio. I never weight train anymore, but am far stronger than I ever used to be (I was always more of a fitness lifter than short rep heavy weights).

For food I consume whatever grubs I find on the weigh home cause that's what we used to do.

 

[BK201]

Damn. That's scary. That's kinda what they mean by so many Canadians being 3-6 paychecks away from being homeless. Not a lot of cushioning there if a member of the family gets sick, or loses a job, or a UFO crashes into the house or something.

lol yeah it's a rough go out there things are really expensive and my next mortgage rate in 4 years makes me slightly nervous.

but I know 2 people selling and Ottawa real estate is very slow right now which is also not great, if i was selling now.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

I guess my point is that I see many, many 20 somethings try to get into the biggest/nicest house they can afford, and end up being house broke as a result.

I'm not questioning why more people in general don't buy houses, I know there's no shortage of road blocks in life that can prevent you from getting a mortgage.

I'm questioning why more people who are purchasing their first homes dont consider buying a duplex.

It doesnt cost anything extra just because it's a duplex, and with a little bit of patience (living in the smaller apartment in the duplex), the potential long term gains are massive.

Oh I definitely get that one! I find nowadays people really want to have everything right off the bat, rather than working their way up do that. Buying a duplex and renting part out is a smart idea. It's just not always everyone's cup of tea. Just have a budget and stick to it and plan for a rainy day (heck, my planning for a rainy day has really come into effect these last few weeks).

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Bootcamp 5X a week, and your metric truck ton of pushups and chinup/pull up (wide and narrow grip).

Nice mix of body weight and cardio. I never weight train anymore, but am far stronger than I ever used to be (I was always more of a fitness lifter than short rep heavy weights).

For food I consume whatever grubs I find on the weigh home cause that's what we used to do.

Jebus, reading the last few pages it seems like every poster on here is a super fit Hulk.

I feel old. Good thing I still do my daily push-ups.....

 

[DrEasy]

Jebus, reading the last few pages it seems like every poster on here is a super fit Hulk.

I feel old. Good thing I still do my daily push-ups.....

Same. I had the best of intentions when I tried to install a pullup bar (mostly to straighten out my bad back more than trying to gain muscles) but I ended up destroying the door instead...

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

Jebus, reading the last few pages it seems like every poster on here is a super fit Hulk.

I feel old. Good thing I still do my daily push-ups.....

I don't even do daily push ups!

All this talk simply makes me feel like I'm sitting in the break room at lunch in which every person is doing some sort of crazy lifting and some weird diet plan.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

I don't even do daily push ups!

All this talk simply makes me feel like I'm sitting in the break room at lunch in which every person is doing some sort of crazy lifting and some weird diet plan.

While we're eating our McDonald's or something.

But yeah, I'm astounded by the large number of posters who seem to be constantly lifting cars and running daily marathons while eating a load of chicken. I mean where am I, HF or GAINZBROS.COM?

 

[Mingus Dew]

I know pretty much what both jobs entail.

I feel that lawyer is much more vast though, compared to being a notary.

I like the fact of possibly being independent and being able to start off independently relatively fast for a notary though, and I feel like it's less stressful.

Idk.

I'm on the path to law right now. The money is going to be good but the hours and stress are daunting. That being said, I probably chose the most intensive/stressful area of law to pursue, so your mileage may vary.

I'm not sure what being a notary entails.

Also, I'm the guy doing five 5Ks and 6 workouts a week. I don't think there is any possible way that my maintenance is over 3000. I started out at about 160 lbs and I'm eating at a deficit right now (1800 calories a day). I looked into an online TDEE calculator, and with about 2 hours of moderate exercise 5 days a week my maintenance should be around 2500.

I'm nothing close to an expert so all of that could be wrong.

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

While we're eating our McDonald's or something.

But yeah, I'm astounded by the large number of posters who seem to be constantly lifting cars and running daily marathons while eating a load of chicken. I mean where am I, HF or GAINZBROS.COM?

Haha. I think it's just like 5 of us who are dominating the conversation and arguing over nothing.

Once exercise (whatever form you do) becomes really consistent, it's really no different than any other hobby or art form. People get really into it, and can be a little over bearing I know I am. I wrote like 3 essays on the last 2 pages

 

[Benjamin]

My exercise is eating less.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Yeah! That's a pretty accurate way of looking at it. I was always one of those "skinny fat" people. Kind of like a dad bod-lite. I've gone through phases where I am super into nutrition (almost obsessively) and go to the gym and do cardio every day. These usually last a couple of months and then I barely do anything right for the rest of the year. Finally in April 2014 I decided I was being an idiot and just tried to find something that was easy (in terms of time-management) for the gym and simple (in terms of nutrition).

Whenever you start, feel free to PM me, but here are some tips I would give you if you want to do something similar to what I did:

1) Find a lifting program/regime that you can be consistent with. There are a TON of beginner programs. Some of them you only go to the gym 3-4 times per week, and others you go 6 times a week. I started off with Stronglifts. I've been reading a lot of heated debates over the last couple of months about whether recommending something like Stronglifts (SL) or Starting Strength (SS... heil Hit..) to new people, because they will NOT make you jacked or super huge quickly (if at all).

The reason why they are good, in my opinion, is for a couple of reasons:
a) They are VERY simple. You only do 3 exercises in each session. I actually recommend adding pull-ups to the not-deadlift days. This means that you don't need to worry about stations or running around, and if you use the recommended breaks and warm ups you will be out of the gym in less then an hour (if you are strict you will be there for exactly 45 mins).

b) They have a linear progression. This means that it is very easy to track results and make sure you are pushing forward each session. Eventually you'll get to a point where you won't be able to add weight every session, but that'll take a few months and by then you'll sort of know what you are doing and can switch to more of a PPL (push, pull, legs) split, but don't worry about this for now.

c) All the exercises you do (including if you add in pull-ups like I recommended) are composite exercises. This means that you are activitating every muscle group. They also work hand in hand. When your squat goes up, so will your deadlift because your corse is stronger. Because your core and legs are stronger, you'll be able to be better planted on the benchpress and have better drive, so your bench gets stronger. Over head press will improve your bench and core stability as well. All your muscles will get stronger and grow evenly.

d) Because you are doing heavy lifts (non of these exercises are on machines), your metabolism will increase. This means you will be able to eat more (or lose weight faster if that's what you want). I am super happy with how I look so I just use this extra wiggle room for kit-kats (I've been about 12-14% body fat since about July and it's still very slowly decreasing despite all the chocolate I eat).

X) That being said, you won't get super jacked looking by doing SL or SS. You will just look lean and muscular. I call it the "Greek Statue" physique. If you look up pictures of statues of Ares, Apollo, or David (I know it was carved by an Italian), these guys are definitely muscular, but they aren't super shredded or have giant guns. Most of the time you see a slight 4-pack, generally defined major muscle groups. I think that's the "perfect" look for an adult male. This is just my opinion. Some guys wanna be like 9% body fat and super shredded, some guys wanna be like 250 lbs of muscle. Everyone finds different looks more appealling than others, but the "Greek Statue" look is, in my opinon, my favourite.

2) Diet. Although diet is the biggest thing when it comes to body recomp, it is NOT as precise as lifting. Although the general rules of metabolism, protein synthesis, cellular respiration, endocrine (hormone release) control, ect. are similar between everyone, I do not believe there is one-shoe-fits-all when it comes to diet. Here is some things to consider (or at least, I have considered and it's working for me and there is science behind it):

a) Despite what some of our vegan posters say, there is such a thing as complete proteins. Their most common sources are meat and meat products. That said, you can easily switch to a plant-based diet and still get them. Soy, in terms of just complete protein content, is the best "cheap" and accessible form. Quinoa also has them. Other foods, like brown/wild rice and some beans have them (but not all), but their amino acid contents aren't very balanced, so you'd have to mix the two (or add others). So, for example, if you normally eat steamed veggies and rice, maybe change it to steamed veggies and rice with beans, and have do a 50/50 split of your rice and beans. Complete proteins are vital for not only skeletal muscle growth, but also for healthy cellular reproduction within your body. If you don't want meat, that's fine, but make sure you do some research on which plants will get you what you need. Also, remember that if something has 99% essential amino acids, and another food has the missing 1, they will NOT be added together. They have to be 100% complete. The reason why rice and some beans work is because they are 100% complete, just their proportions aren't as ideal as with meat (because meat is made of the same stuff as us).

Also, I just want to add that the "rice + beans" thing is something I googled on my own time and is not something I learned in school. It may not actually be true (I feel like it makes sense in terms of numbers, but not so much in how metabolism actually happens, oh well). Because I eat mostly vegetables, I get a lot of my proteins from supplements (double chocolate fudge whey protein )

b) For the first month or two I would recommend counting your calories, macros, and all other nutrients. I have friends who do this on paper, but I personally used the app MyFitnessPal (it's got a website as well as an iOS and Android app that syncs with it). I say you only NEED to use it for the first few months because it will make you more aware of what you are eating. Once you know the gist of what is in what foods, you'll be able to eyeball it. I also think that, over the long-term (years), counting calories and the like is not sustainable by everyone. It takes extra willpower, which I lack exponentially.

That said, I am not a nutritionist. I just really like biology and have recently learned this stuff. I also have a gym program that has made me look good and I know I am very healthy and fit in generally (from blood tests to occurance of illness. All my medical problems are either genetic or flukes, and even those have gotten pretty insignificant)

Sorry for the long post. That's just what worked for me and still seems to work. I also forgot to metion that, in the summer, I usually have a lot more free time and I usually cycle / go on hikes and walks almost daily, and this past summer I was also doing MMA 5x per week. I was eating more so I didn't lose much weight.

Thanks for this man; really detailed.

I've been lifting for over a year now so a lot of what you said makes sense. I like the idea of SL but it's super low frequency and that's a little worrying. I have also exhausted a lot of my noob strength gains so linear progression will be tougher (although I plan on finding a linear program once I start bulking).

At the moment I'm basically just doing a bro split and hitting every muscle group twice a week (I do core every second day as well). I'm not really into gaining a ton of mass - my ultimate goal is to be around 10-12% BF with somewhat visible abs. I'd like to plateau around 165 lbs (although that might be a bit high).

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

While we're eating our McDonald's or something.

But yeah, I'm astounded by the large number of posters who seem to be constantly lifting cars and running daily marathons while eating a load of chicken. I mean where am I, HF or GAINZBROS.COM?

I like the sound of the McDonald's... Saturday morning post night shift... it's happening!

 

[Caeldan]

Thanks for this man; really detailed.

I've been lifting for over a year now so a lot of what you said makes sense. I like the idea of SL but it's super low frequency and that's a little worrying. I have also exhausted a lot of my noob strength gains so linear progression will be tougher (although I plan on finding a linear program once I start bulking).

At the moment I'm basically just doing a bro split and hitting every muscle group twice a week (I do core every second day as well). I'm not really into gaining a ton of mass - my ultimate goal is to be around 10-12% BF with somewhat visible abs. I'd like to plateau around 165 lbs (although that might be a bit high).

I wouldn't say 5x5 is exactly low frequency, nor is squatting 3x/wk...
It's just an A/B split program and it's all compound lifts so you are hitting everything every time you're in the gym. I actually find that compared to say doing Cube that it gives me a leaner look (unless like right now I'm doing a lot of accessory work with Cube). And from what I've read, you can pretty much do linear programs until you're into the 400/500 pound mark on squats and deads (no idea where you're at now and if you're around there then yeah... maybe it is time to do something more specific).

 

[Mingus Dew]

I wouldn't say 5x5 is exactly low frequency, nor is squatting 3x/wk...
It's just an A/B split program and it's all compound lifts so you are hitting everything every time you're in the gym. I actually find that compared to say doing Cube that it gives me a leaner look (unless like right now I'm doing a lot of accessory work with Cube). And from what I've read, you can pretty much do linear programs until you're into the 400/500 pound mark on squats and deads (no idea where you're at now and if you're around there then yeah... maybe it is time to do something more specific).

Haha I am nowhere near those numbers don't worry. I thought SL 5x5 was a 3 day/week program? That seems like a lot of rest days (although again I'm no expert).

Something like PPL is 6 day/week and seems to sport a little higher frequency. I think both programs are a lot better than what I'm doing now, however.

 

[Caeldan]

Haha I am nowhere near those numbers don't worry. I thought SL 5x5 was a 3 day/week program? That seems like a lot of rest days (although again I'm no expert).

Something like PPL is 6 day/week and seems to sport a little higher frequency. I think both programs are a lot better than what I'm doing now, however.

I'll have to look up PPL... but with Stronglifts you need those rest days. With the volume and eventual weight you'll be doing... even doing accessory work can run the risk of overtraining if you're not careful (I've done that... would do variants of every main lift of the day, plus some aesthetic accessories after).

 

[MakeOttawaGreatAgain]

Haha I am nowhere near those numbers don't worry. I thought SL 5x5 was a 3 day/week program? That seems like a lot of rest days (although again I'm no expert).

Something like PPL is 6 day/week and seems to sport a little higher frequency. I think both programs are a lot better than what I'm doing now, however.

It can be a 3x per week program, but I kind of did it as an every other day thing when I started, since I had the free time. I just made sure that I went at LEAST 3x.

Most PPLs are basically Stronglifts + accessories. You still usually do your big 4 lifts (5 incl. pull-ups) as a 3-5 x 5, and your accessories are all usually 3 x 8-12.

I actually never heard of PPL until a few months ago. I did now about splits that were chest+tris, back+bis and leg days, but I never really heard of them as PPL. I have my own routine that I have made up over time to suit my needs. It's essentially a Push1,Pull,Legs,Push2,Pull,Legs, with my Push 1 being more chest focused, and my push 2 being more shoulders focused. It seems this is kind of standard these days, though. It makes me feel good that, if I am an idiot, at least everyone else is too

Don't worry too much about the frequency in the beginning, though. Just make sure you do something that is consistent and that you enjoy. If you are planning on bulking, you will see some quickly renewed gains in strength and size, even if you've been lifting for a while.

I've upped my protein intake and have FINALLY hit 170lbs 3x5 on the bench (I weigh 165). I kept getting side-tracked (knee injury, so no leg drive. Imsomnia making me exhausted. Then the adderall destroyed my appetite and I lost lke 6 lbs). But now I am back on track and can now focus on my double plates!