''Senators won Brassard trade...''

[Knave]

Duchene is not that type of player...

 

[Agent Zub]

He very explicitly did not say that.

Stop putting words in other people's mouths.

Andy was a core guy in Colorado and he gave up the team. He expects core guys to not ever give up.

That's what I got out of it. What else does he mean?

 

[Knave]

Andy was a core guy in Colorado and he gave up the team. He expects core guys to not ever give up.

That's what I got out of it. What else does he mean?

Anderson didn't give up - he was a streaky, questionable goalie at the time just like Elliott... which is why we got the swap. I remember one of the CBC panel guys insinuating Anderson had a great history in Colorado. He didn't.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Andy was a core guy in Colorado and he gave up the team. He expects core guys to not ever give up.

That's what I got out of it. What else does he mean?

Andy wasn't a core guy, and also wasn't the finished product he is today.

Duchene had pretty much his worst statistical season last year, right when his team needed him the most. That was a character building/killing year...and Duchene really failed that test. It's hard not to factor that in when looking at adding a guy to your team. If things so south in Ottawa, would Duchene do the same here? Do we really want to give up 2-3 nice pieces (one of which is likely Chabot) to find out?

I'm not willing to take that risk.

 

[Agent Zub]

Anderson didn't give up - he was a streaky, questionable goalie at the time just like Elliott... which is why we got the swap. I remember one of the CBC panel guys insinuating Anderson had a great history in Colorado. He didn't.

Perhaps, Anderson is an extremely moody goaltender. I haven't seen a goalie who so obviously looks like he isn't dialed in when he is slumping. I mean he's one of the best when he's on his game but he's one of the most infuriating when he isn't because he just doesn't seem like is trying/ in the game.

So maybe it's a bit of both. But I can tell you that Avs fans absolutely hate him because they think that he gave up on the team.

 

[Micklebot]

My point is that when you're going up against teams with Malkin/Crosby, Stamkos/Kucherov, Nylander/Matthews etc you need every upgrade in speed and gamebreaking skill you can squeeze. You need players like Hoffman who can crack open a game and make their line dangerous no matter who their linemates are.

Duchene is that type of player, not Brassard.

We shouldn't be happy with just being a good team. We should be contenders, we have one of the greatest players in history and one of the best coaches in the NHL. We should be up there with Tampa, Pittsburgh and the hawks.

If Duchene was the player you're describing, I think the Avs would probably have been a better team over the last few years. He's a nice player, but he's no game breaking talent...

 

[Agent Zub]

If Duchene was the player you're describing, I think the Avs would probably have been a better team over the last few years. He's a nice player, but he's no game breaking talent...

I mean he isn't a franchise center, or an elite number 1 c. But he is a slight upgrade on Turris, and a clear upgrade on Brassard.

I think that a center version of Hoffman is a good comparable in what he would bring. And I consider Hoffman to be a gambreaker.

But this might just be arguing semantics.

 

[BonkTastic]

Andy was a core guy in Colorado

He certainly was not.

That's what I got out of it.

Maybe that's the real issue here.

What else does he mean?

Why not ask for clarification before jumping to conclusions then, and creating an argument against yours that didn't exist?

 

[Micklebot]

I mean he isn't a franchise center, or an elite number 1 c. But he is a slight upgrade on Turris, and a clear upgrade on Brassard.

I think that a center version of Hoffman is a good comparable in what he would bring. And I consider Hoffman to be a gambreaker.

But this might just be arguing semantics.

So here's the thing; prior to a really disappointing season production-wise last year, there was a compelling case to be made that Brassard was a slight upgrade on Turris. You could make a case that he's been a stronger player for us since the beginning of last years playoffs too (excluding post shoulder games against the Pens), he's certainly been better this season.

Perhaps the issue here is we don't see eye to eye on who Brassard is as a player, or who Duchene is as a player, and that's fine.

 

[Agent Zub]

I don't know how anyone can say that Anderson wasn't a core player for the Avs when he played 70 games the previous year and was their MVP. I mean he was even garnering Vezina and Hart hype.

I don't understand how your starter isn't a core a player.

 

[BonkTastic]

I don't understand how your starter isn't a core a player.

Good argument. Ondrej Pavelec was such an important core player for the Jets over the past 3-4 years.

 

[Agent Zub]

Good argument. Ondrej Pavelec was such an important core player for the Jets over the past 3-4 years.

He was their literal MVP the year before and played 70 games. He was seen as a key player going into the next season.

I don't get why you would delete the rest of the post and cherry pick this.

 

[Caeldan]

I don't know how anyone can say that Anderson wasn't a core player for the Avs when he played 70 games the previous year and was their MVP. I mean he was even garnering Vezina and Hart hype.

I don't understand how your starter isn't a core a player.

Core tends to imply the players you build your team around and help shape your team's identity.
Anderson was a stopgap in Colorado that put the team on his back until he got hurt and got told to suck it up and keep playing for a terrible team in front of him.

 

[Agent Zub]

Core tends to imply the players you build your team around and help shape your team's identity.
Anderson was a stopgap in Colorado that put the team on his back until he got hurt and got told to suck it up and keep playing for a terrible team in front of him.

I don't think they considered their MVP of a year ago to be a stop gap.

What happened is that when Anderson is playing bad his body language shows it. And that ticked a lot of people off.

 

[Micklebot]

He was their literal MVP the year before and played 70 games. He was seen as a key player going into the next season.

I don't get why you would delete the rest of the post and cherry pick this.

Goalies play 70 games when they are the only option, not because they are core pieces. His 1 hart vote was not getting hart hype... I mean, Stastny also go a single hart vote that year he certainly wasn't getting hart Hype. He also didn't receive what you'd call serious consideration for the Vezina either. He was a new goalie with one good (not elite) year with the team, and a very good playoff run.

I mean, it was a good season by him, but I'm not sure that's enough to proclaim him part of their core. Maybe, but I'd have considered him a transition piece myself.

 

[Agent Zub]

Yea of course he wasn't ever a threat to actually garner serious Hart attention. I don't think any no name goalie will ever win one.

But he was absolutely and by far their best player that year and the reason they made it to the playoffs, and to game 6.

If I remember correctly, the Avs fan actually gave him a standing ovation after they were eliminated.

They were hoping he would become for them what he became for us.

 

[HSF]

Why is this even a debate about Brassard vs Duchene? To me its pretty obvious that Duchene and Brassard are better than Turris and would make stronger down the middle

 

[BonkTastic]

I don't get why you would delete the rest of the post and cherry pick this.

Because it is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make.

 

[Knave]

Yea of course he wasn't ever a threat to actually garner serious Hart attention. I don't think any no name goalie will ever win one.

But he was absolutely and by far their best player that year and the reason they made it to the playoffs, and to game 6.

If I remember correctly, the Avs fan actually gave him a standing ovation after they were eliminated.

They were hoping he would become for them what he became for us.

I don't think anyone is denying he had one great playoff performance in Colorado and he was a workhorse that season and that Colorado had hopes for him... but the following year he looked very shaky.

They hoped he could be their starter. They lost hope.

Think about Andrew Raycroft and his Calder win. Did the Bruins think he was their future goalie? Yes. Was he? No.

Sometimes a goalie will have that one season or run (Hammond anyone?) where he looks like gold and then it never repeats itself. That was likely the thinking in Colorado that motivated the trade for Elliott. "Anderson was great last year but if I look at him now he is not doing well".

 

[swiftwin]

My point is that when you're going up against teams with Malkin/Crosby, Stamkos/Kucherov, Nylander/Matthews etc you need every upgrade in speed and gamebreaking skill you can squeeze. You need players like Hoffman who can crack open a game and make their line dangerous no matter who their linemates are.

Duchene is that type of player, not Brassard.

We shouldn't be happy with just being a good team. We should be contenders, we have one of the greatest players in history and one of the best coaches in the NHL. We should be up there with Tampa, Pittsburgh and the hawks.

Brass is 6th in playoff points among all players since 2012, right behind Jonathan "Captain Intangibles" Toews himself. There's a reason people call him Big Game Brass. He's a clutch gamebreaker.

 

[NyQuil]

Why is this even a debate about Brassard vs Duchene? To me its pretty obvious that Duchene and Brassard are better than Turris and would make stronger down the middle

I don't think either is that much better than Turris.

If I were Turris, I'd think I'd rather play with Stone and Ryan than Dzingel and Pyatt.

 

[HSF]

I don't think either is that much better than Turris.

If I were Turris, I'd think I'd rather play with Stone and Ryan than Dzingel and Pyatt.

Meh Turris has generally had solid linemates it was usually the 2nd line with zibby that suffered cause well Zibby was not that great of a center.

Dont get me wrong Turris is a good player but even if Duchene is slighty better that is an upgrade. Best case we get a guy like Duchene to play him WITH turris

 

[NyQuil]

Dont get me wrong Turris is a good player but even if Duchene is slighty better that is an upgrade. Best case we get a guy like Duchene to play him WITH turris

As you say, for a significant impact on our firepower we need to add a top six guy without subtracting one.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I don't think either is that much better than Turris.

If I were Turris, I'd think I'd rather play with Stone and Ryan than Dzingel and Pyatt.

I think that kinda shows what the organization thinks of Turris, that he can elevate players better than a guy like Brassard can.

They did the same thing with Spezza. Gave him lesser wingers because he could elevate them. Hell he made it so Greening could score 20.

 

[HSF]

As you say, for a significant impact on our firepower we need to add a top six guy without subtracting one.

indeed. If we do trade turris and add duchene i suspect we will still having some scoring issues unless white comes and somehow produces