TSN: Senators GM Dorion: 'It’s time to perform'

[AchtzehnBaby]

I think what the owner said was he felt we had the pieces in place to compete for a cup. He didn't imply this season. He was implying the pieces were in place to compete down the road. We'll see how that plays out

He definitely did not imply right now compete for a cup.

Right. This is clear to most people, but for those trying to constantly knock the team and organization, it's easy cannon fodder that is constantly regurgitated to keep the negative agenda rolling.

As I have said before, I really believe that there are some big trades to come in the next 12 months that will surely shore up the plan. It's fine to pick and fawn over certain prospects, but a bunch of these guys won't make it with the Senators. We know, and we've seen it before. Some will be good trades and some will be bad trades. Happens to every team, at every level. If GMs and scouts knew the future, we would would have a different playing field.

 

[Bileur]

Didn’t the team Yzerman built in Tampa get swept in the first round last year by a team built on defense and grit?

Didn’t Tampa win this year by adding significant grit and size at forward and defense (Schenn, Maroon, Coleman, Goodrow, Bogosian) which can obviously contribute to gaining and maintaining puck possession?

I’m not saying grit and size win alone, but I don’t understand why you’re suggesting grit and size can’t contribute to a possession game.

Like @HSF said, you need balance to win.

Aside from that, I think Yzerman did a good job he had some great picks like Kucherov, Point, Palat, Vasilevsky, Cirelli etc but he also wasn’t infalliable in Tampa. He started there in 2010 and the team won the 2020 cup after his departure. Kucherov and Palat were drafted in 2011 (Yzerman’s 2nd year). Hedman was already there when Yzerman started. Vasilevsky was 2012 (Yzerman’s 3rd year), Point 2014 (Yzerman’s 5th year). There were a good number of busts/disappointments along the way as well. It’s normal, building a winner takes time.

I’m not Dorion’s biggest fan, not by a long shot, I think he’s mediocre at trades and bad in the media/too dishonest for my liking but I’m at least willing to give him a chance to make his picks and give those players the chance to prove him right or wrong. Rebuilding takes time.

You’re judging Dorion’s batter against Yzerman’s complete cake. It’s not apples to apples.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think what the owner said was he felt we had the pieces in place to compete for a cup. He didn't imply this season. He was implying the pieces were in place to compete down the road. We'll see how that plays out

He definitely did not imply right now compete for a cup.

This is a quote: "This is the team, with what we have right now, I believe can win a Stanley Cup already, and that’s without adding some veterans, which we plan to do."

Now what he means I guess some of you would know better than I do. I have no issues not being able to read into what he really means as well as others.

"right now" and "already" mean somewhere down the road .. ok . sure .. not going to argue that point

 

[GCK]

Did the owner not recently say this team can compete for a Stanley cup right now? maybe it was playoffs I forget.. anyway .. these kids .. well we have spots for a couple better shine otherwise they can go develop somewhere else. Tough decisions. But we have the guys willing to make them

He did not say that. He said with this team which hopefully with a couple years experience Will compete for a cup.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

He did not say that. He said with this team which hopefully with a couple years experience Will compete for a cup.

see above

 

[GCK]

see above

You know better than that.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You know better than that.

If you mean that I would not say or think they can win a Stanley Cup already with what they have right now.. you are right..

Look it would not surprise me in the least if Melnyk puts the pressure on and runs out of patience with the rebuild and wants to change to win now mode vs stay the course.

 

[aragorn]

Right. This is clear to most people, but for those trying to constantly knock the team and organization, it's easy cannon fodder that is constantly regurgitated to keep the negative agenda rolling.

As I have said before, I really believe that there are some big trades to come in the next 12 months that will surely shore up the plan. It's fine to pick and fawn over certain prospects, but a bunch of these guys won't make it with the Senators. We know, and we've seen it before. Some will be good trades and some will be bad trades. Happens to every team, at every level. If GMs and scouts knew the future, we would would have a different playing field.

Here is where I disagree, I doubt there will be any big player trades coming for this team, at least not for a couple of yrs. However, there should still be a number of trades for more picks & prospects or to move up in the next draft. I think PD is building the team through the draft given how many good young players he has already drafted which could be part of any future team. He is also drafting bigger guys & a few of them that play a hard game with grit who can also contribute offensively & defensively & are good in the faceoff circle, basically players with all the skills & balance a team needs to win.

IMO by the time this team is ready to challenge for a Conference final, I expect a number of the young guys could be veterans like Tkachuk & Chabot entering their prime while a number of other prospects should have at least a few yrs of NHL experience under their belts. While I still expect trades IMO it would be to fill a hole here & there where a prospect was unable to reach their drafted potential. We'll see, but I don't think a team can win a cup strictly through trades, I think a team wins through the draft by drafting the right players to fit their system & not necessarily the most skilled players. This notion by PD that it is time to perform is pre-season banter for whatever reason. I think most realize that the future is when this team becomes relevant again & not so much the present, they are still in rebuild mode until these prospect come of age & development.

 

[JD1]

This is a quote: "This is the team, with what we have right now, I believe can win a Stanley Cup already, and that’s without adding some veterans, which we plan to do."

Now what he means I guess some of you would know better than I do. I have no issues not being able to read into what he really means as well as others.

"right now" and "already" mean somewhere down the road .. ok . sure .. not going to argue that point

Already....that's a term that's a figure of speech and an odd one in mind.

I think you're bright enough to understand he didn't mean this year

 

[JD1]

This is a quote: "This is the team, with what we have right now, I believe can win a Stanley Cup already, and that’s without adding some veterans, which we plan to do."

Now what he means I guess some of you would know better than I do. I have no issues not being able to read into what he really means as well as others.

"right now" and "already" mean somewhere down the road .. ok . sure .. not going to argue that point

I think it's quite fair and reasonable to debate whether the current pieces are enough to compete for a cup. My view is they aren't and they won't be until were packaging prospects for big TDL upgrades.

I don't think it's fair or reasonable to think he was implying this year

 

[GCK]

If you mean that I would not say or think they can win a Stanley Cup already with what they have right now.. you are right..

Look it would not surprise me in the least if Melnyk puts the pressure on and runs out of patience with the rebuild and wants to change to win now mode vs stay the course.

You are choosing to interpret that comment like that without thinking about his other comments about how difficult the Canadian division will be for the Sens or the 3-4 years to be Cup contenders.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You are choosing to interpret that comment like that without thinking about his other comments about how difficult the Canadian division will be for the Sens or the 3-4 years to be Cup contenders.

ya ok... I am the one interpreting it. I'm ok with that. If I told you I am good to go already and I can win right now.. would you interpret that as later. If I was inconsistent with my messaging does it change that I told you that?

 

[GCK]

ya ok... I am the one interpreting it. I'm ok with that. If I told you I am good to go already and I can win right now.. would you interpret that as later. If I was inconsistent with my messaging does it change that I told you that?

I truly believe that we are a Stanley Cup winner within four years,” he said. “It can happen any time, but within four years”

and also

“It’s only for a hockey reason. This is not our year. We’ll be competitive but this is the year the Canadian teams are all better. Every one of them — including mine. I’m still at the beginning of my rise up. Everybody else was good and they’re getting better.”

It’s pretty clear he is not think Cup this year.

 

[TheDebater]

I truly believe that we are a Stanley Cup winner within four years,” he said. “It can happen any time, but within four years”

and also

“It’s only for a hockey reason. This is not our year. We’ll be competitive but this is the year the Canadian teams are all better. Every one of them — including mine. I’m still at the beginning of my rise up. Everybody else was good and they’re getting better.”

It’s pretty clear he is not think Cup this year.

You might be right, but it is anything but clear.

 

[GCK]

You might be right, but it is anything but clear.

How is “this is not our year” anything but clear

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Senators Could Leave Surprising Players Unprotected in Expansion

Suggesting the Ottawa Senators will protect Brady Tkachuk, Drake Batherson, Evgenii Dadonov, Connor Brown, Logan Brown and Colin White at forward, Hailey Salvian of The Athletic notes, “That leaves Zaitsev and Josh Brown.”

She writes that this past season was Nikita Zaitsev’s worst since he joined the NHL, but he still has some value on the Senators’ penalty kill and is often used as a defensive forward against other teams’ best. She writes he was one of, “D.J. Smith’s most used defenders, finishing behind Chabot in average ice time.”

As for Brown, Salvian notes: Josh Brown should prove to be an interesting candidate. The team sent an asset to acquire him this summer and extended him to a two-year, one-way deal, showing confidence in what he can provide to the Senators’ blue line. source – ‘Seattle Kraken expansion mock draft 5.0: Who could the Senators lose?’ – Hailey Salvian – The Athletic – 12/07/2020

Matt Murray, Pittsburgh Penguins (Amy Irvin / The Hockey Writers)

What’s also interesting is that Salvian suggests the Senators might not protect newly-signed goaltender Matt Murray. Suggesting that ticket price on the 26-year-old’s contract is so high, Seattle would be deterred from taking him. She notes, “In a way, his contract acts as protection.”

This would allow the Senators to fill the exposure requirement protect one of their younger goalies in Marcus Hogberg or Joey Daccord.

 

[Agent Zub]

For the last four years this board was struggling to understand the strategy behind Dorion's decisions. Absolutely no game plan or the road map to encompass a rout to be a decent hockey club. Dorion drafted Stutzle, because if he did not, he would look like a village idiot, among his peers.
Abramov was just a throw in, no credit there. I do not think Dorion understands what a gem this player is. And how to use him. The same goes for Smith. By drafting Sanderson, he showed again the hokey world, that he is stuck in the old mentality about defence first. When NHL is rapidly becoming a puck possession league. We need a new GM, who understands the new NHL as Steve Yzerman and others like him. Dorion drafted Sokolov and in my opinion Sokolov could be a slightly improved version of Tkachuck. But for players like Sokolov and Tkachuk to be effective and to put up the numbers they should, they have to be surrounded by puck first possession guys we do not have. I love Graig. He is exactly the talent we need. He is not fancy, but he is willing to take the hit and fight along the boards to prolong the puck possession time in the offensive zone. Very high intensity player, who never quits. Jarventie is a big question mark. Looks like a perimeter lazy player. So we have so far in puck fist possession high intensity guys Stutzle, Abramov and Greig. Non of those players are regulars yet. No wonder we can not compete now in the new NHL.

Sanderson is a possession monster though

 

[SensPerpetualRebuild]

For the last four years this board was struggling to understand the strategy behind Dorion's decisions. Absolutely no game plan or the road map to encompass a rout to be a decent hockey club. Dorion drafted Stutzle, because if he did not, he would look like a village idiot, among his peers.
Abramov was just a throw in, no credit there. I do not think Dorion understands what a gem this player is. And how to use him. The same goes for Smith. By drafting Sanderson, he showed again the hokey world, that he is stuck in the old mentality about defence first. When NHL is rapidly becoming a puck possession league. We need a new GM, who understands the new NHL as Steve Yzerman and others like him. Dorion drafted Sokolov and in my opinion Sokolov could be a slightly improved version of Tkachuck. But for players like Sokolov and Tkachuk to be effective and to put up the numbers they should, they have to be surrounded by puck first possession guys we do not have. I love Graig. He is exactly the talent we need. He is not fancy, but he is willing to take the hit and fight along the boards to prolong the puck possession time in the offensive zone. Very high intensity player, who never quits. Jarventie is a big question mark. Looks like a perimeter lazy player. So we have so far in puck fist possession high intensity guys Stutzle, Abramov and Greig. Non of those players are regulars yet. No wonder we can not compete now in the new NHL.

The team you want to build sounds a lot like the old President trophy winning Sens. That team never won anything meaningful so I don’t want go through that again. I want us to build a team that has a real chance to win it all. I hope we’re on that track.

 

[Sweatred]

I’m tired of seeing them draft safe, bottom 6, “character” players. Top 6, offensive-minded players can be character guys too!

Like who ? Pinto vs Kaliyev’s? Kleven?Sokolov?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

We are on perfect track. Have a mix of everything to be contenders for years.

All we need is a first line center/one more elite forward talent and that can easily come in the form of draft next year or a trade with many teams that will be in cap hell in next few seasons with flat cap. We are in excellent shape.

Stuetzle
Tkachuk

Chabot
Sanderson

are a spectacular 4 headed monster to guide this team. Yes, two of which are very unproven but I'm quite optimistic.

Dadonov, C. Brown, Batherson, Norris, Pinto, Brannstrom, JBD, White, Wolanin, Galchenyuk, L. Brown, Formenton, Kleven, Sokolov, Murray, Daccord, Hogberg, Jarventie, Watson, Paul, Tierney, Abramov, Balcers

Is really good depth, veteran presence, and prospect group to have around them. They have a mix of everything including big boys that can skate and have strong character.

Im excited.

 

[foggyvisor]

It's been a full week since Dorion challenged this team and he has yet to see ANYTHING that shows this team is ready to compete.

 

[bert]

This is a quote: "This is the team, with what we have right now, I believe can win a Stanley Cup already, and that’s without adding some veterans, which we plan to do."

Now what he means I guess some of you would know better than I do. I have no issues not being able to read into what he really means as well as others.

"right now" and "already" mean somewhere down the road .. ok . sure .. not going to argue that point

Why just read it like it was written when we can assume something different?

Already....that's a term that's a figure of speech and an odd one in mind.

I think you're bright enough to understand he didn't mean this year

Any reasonable person knows that they have no shot this year. That doesn't change what was said. Thats all SOA is saying. Thats why this entire thread exists to begin with. Ownership and management saying outrageous and unrealistic things to the media. In what I assume is meant to spark interest? Either way its the same old song and dance, they collectively treat the fan base like were children. Its shocking its still happening but alas here we are.

We can still be excited in the direction of the team, no one is saying otherwise but to expect them to compete for a cup is putting unrealistic, unnecessary expectations on a very young group. It does more damage than good.

 

[TheDebater]

It's been a full week since Dorion challenged this team and he has yet to see ANYTHING that shows this team is ready to compete.

Should we be considered that Stuetzle and Sanderson have not made the team yet?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Why just read it like it was written when we can assume something different?

Any reasonable person knows that they have no shot this year. That doesn't change what was said. Thats all SOA is saying. Thats why this entire thread exists to begin with. Ownership and management saying outrageous and unrealistic things to the media. In what I assume is meant to spark interest? Either way its the same old song and dance, they collectively treat the fan base like were children. Its shocking its still happening but alas here we are.

We can still be excited in the direction of the team, no one is saying otherwise but to expect them to compete for a cup is putting unrealistic, unnecessary expectations on a very young group. It does more damage than good.

Reasonable people also understand that marketing an NHL team means constantly making positive statements for the future. Driving that point must be from the owner on down. I just think that those wanting low expectation comments from the organization are missing the point as well as not looking from a realistic perspective. If people who are an armchair GMs want to predict they will suck, well that's fine. The average joe fan wants positive hype. Especially after years of the shit the team has been through.

I know you are not asking Euge and gang to start saying "we are going to suck for a couple more seasons" , as this is not a great idea for marketing ...and even worse for the moral of the team and prospects. But from a marketing perspective, pumping up the team and fans, it's a must.

They are going to compete for the cup., as players are not going to go out there and expect to compete for anything less. They are going to work hard. They are going to be fun to watch.

 

[bert]

Reasonable people also understand that marketing an NHL team means constantly making positive statements for the future. Driving that point must be from the owner on down. I just think that those wanting low expectation comments from the organization are missing the point as well as not looking from a realistic perspective. If people who are an armchair GMs want to predict they will suck, well that's fine. The average joe fan wants positive hype. Especially after years of the shit the team has been through.

I know you are not asking Euge and gang to start saying "we are going to suck for a couple more seasons" , as this is not a great idea for marketing ...and even worse for the moral of the team and prospects. But from a marketing perspective, pumping up the team and fans, it's a must.

They are going to compete for the cup., as players are not going to go out there and expect to compete for anything less. They are going to work hard. They are going to be fun to watch.

You're consistently in the minority of sens fans when you defend ownership and how they interact with us. I am not sure you can collectively speak for everyone when this is the case. You also misconstrued what I said.

There is a very large difference between having a positive outlook and creating unrealistic expectations. I like most fans are very excited for the season, excited to see the new players and are optimistic about progress and development. Even the most positive sens fan on the planet Gord Wilson illustrated thats what he hopes for.

Ownership just openly admit he lied to the fan base a week ago, maybe saying outlandish unrealistic statements a few days later isn't the way to follow it up.

From a marketing perspective if you really want to win fans back and create excitement for the season don't go back to the well and insult our collective intelligence. Start treating us with respect and eventually it might be reciprocated. This is a very intelligent, hockey educated fan base its not South Florida.

Personally can't wait to watch this team this year, there is finally real hope. We get to watch players that have an actual future with the organization.