Seider vs Power - Today and Future

[Sombastate]

So there's an argument that shows up about 3 times a week in our Fantasy Discord Chat. So I'd like to see what people think here.

Between Seider and Power, who is the better defenseman, not just as of now, but who do you think will be better moving forward

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[Faceboner]

Sender now but power going forward seider has the tool case but power has better tools.

 

[MNRube]

Honestly don’t see how you pick Power for the present or future. And I like the guy

 

[Sombastate]

I can see Power being better in the future. But IMO, as of today, Seider is closer to Dahlin than he is to Power.

 

[Mattilaus]

Seider for both. Seider is indisputably better now and I'll take the sure thing over hoping Power becomes as good or better in the future.

 

[Aladyyn]

Morasmus Sederistolainen

 

[VaporTrail]

Sabres fan here...Give me Seider all day long.

 

[biturbo19]

Power has the potential to become like this generation's Ryan Suter. He's got all the tools and upside to be that sort of player for ages.


But Seider is kind of on track to become like this generation's Shea Weber, who always sort of won out between the two. And rightfully so most of the time, in the "impact" element and range of different ways in which the player could impact that game.


Seider is also much further along toward getting there at the moment. Power has a long ways to go to hit Ryan Suter level. Seider is already knocking on the door of where Weber often slotted in among the league's defencemen.

 

[Aladyyn]

Power might be the only player in the league who would be rated higher if he was 5 inches shorter

 

[ManofSteel55]

Seider easily right now. Toss up on later, but I voted Power, I think he has a higher possible upside - I think if he puts it all together, he could be right at the top of the league as far as defensemen go. I'm just not sure if he gets there or not.

 

[Machinehead]

View attachment 840871
Morasmus Sederistolainen

Yeah, I don't know.

Analytics can change and we'll see how it goes, but right now, Seider looks like the latest defenseman who everyone says "trust me bro, he's great" and nothing good happens when he's on the ice.

 

[Aladyyn]

Yeah, I don't know.

Analytics can change and we'll see how it goes, but right now, Seider looks like the latest defenseman who everyone says "trust me bro, he's great" and nothing good happens when he's on the ice.

To be fair he is getting killed by his deployment this season to some degree. Though I find it crazy how everyone agreed his 2nd season didn't live up to expectations, all his metrics got worse this year, yet his reputation seems to have completely rebounded?

 

[tsujimoto74]

I can see Power being better in the future. But IMO, as of today, Seider is closer to Dahlin than he is to Power.

Yeah, no. Seider is better than Power, but neither of these guys is even close to Dahlin.

 

[norrisnick]

Yeah, I don't know.

Analytics can change and we'll see how it goes, but right now, Seider looks like the latest defenseman who everyone says "trust me bro, he's great" and nothing good happens when he's on the ice.

Context for those analytics is a MFer.

This is the quality of competition usage of all the #1 D (by TOI) in the league. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that no one would excel with his deployment. His rookie year he was at Parayko's QoC. Last year he was around Matheson's QoC. The hope is that with Edvinsson on the roster he can start taking some of those shifts so Seider gets a breather now and then and pad the analytics for all the moneyballers.

 

[Sombastate]

Yeah, no. Seider is better than Power, but neither of these guys is even close to Dahlin.

Oh I agree with this completely. Dahlin is way better than both

 

[Albatros]

They sure as hell wouldn't be a potential playoff team if they had someone else than Seider playing those minutes.

 

[Aladyyn]

Context for those analytics is a MFer.

This is the quality of competition usage of all the #1 D (by TOI) in the league. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that no one would excel with his deployment. His rookie year he was at Parayko's QoC. Last year he was around Matheson's QoC. The hope is that with Edvinsson on the roster he can start taking some of those shifts so Seider gets a breather now and then and pad the analytics for all the moneyballers.

View attachment 841474

Just because there are factors that hurt him doesn't mean he's good. The difference in their young career is 49 goals on 5on5 differential in Power's favor. That's not analytics, that's just facts.

 

[MS]

Yeah, I don't know.

Analytics can change and we'll see how it goes, but right now, Seider looks like the latest defenseman who everyone says "trust me bro, he's great" and nothing good happens when he's on the ice.

I loved him as a rookie but every time I watch him now I feel like his skating has actually regressed and he looks thick and sluggish. And it doesn't really feel like the skill level has developed, either, and he forces a lot of low-percentage plays offensively. I get that his usage is tough ... but the eye test isn't exactly screaming that this is a player who would dominate in easier minutes.

When I watch Power he looks like a Cadillac by comparison - everything smooth and crisp.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Seider is the only reason our defense is sometimes able to keep the puck out of the net. If not for him we’d have a bottom 3 defense and would be very far from the playoffs. I’ve watched almost every game this year so I don’t really give a shit what the advanced stats say in this case. He has been very, very good in his extremely difficult minutes.

 

[norrisnick]

Just because there are factors that hurt him doesn't mean he's good. The difference in their young career is 49 goals on 5on5 differential in Power's favor. That's not analytics, that's just facts.

Hockey is easier facing below league average competition. Who knew?

Tuch and Skinner still better than Larkin? Just curious...

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

To be fair he is getting killed by his deployment this season to some degree. Though I find it crazy how everyone agreed his 2nd season didn't live up to expectations, all his metrics got worse this year, yet his reputation seems to have completely rebounded?

This seems like exactly what Philly fans said about Provorov for ages. The analytics never caught up to his reputation.

 

[norrisnick]

This seems like exactly what Philly fans said about Provorov for ages. The analytics never caught up to his reputation.

Provorov's QoC has never been higher than where Faber is listed on that chart. And half the time he wasn't even the Flyers' highest D, for QoC.

There is a difference between fans saying "our guy sees a ton of hard minutes" and "this guy is seeing the second hardest minutes we've ever recorded".

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Provorov's QoC has never been higher than where Faber is listed on that chart. And half the time he wasn't even the Flyers' highest D, for QoC.

There is a difference between fans saying "our guy sees a ton of hard minutes" and "this guy is seeing the second hardest minutes we've ever recorded".

Agreed to some extent. But getting demolished even in extremely tough minutes doesn’t really do anyone any favors, and makes it impossible to measure any progress. Incrementally wouldn’t throwing Holl and Chiarot out there in the same usage while sheltering Seider a bit be much better for the team?

 

[norrisnick]

Agreed to some extent. But getting demolished even in extremely tough minutes doesn’t really do anyone any favors, and makes it impossible to measure any progress. Incrementally wouldn’t throwing Holl and Chiarot out there in the same usage while sheltering Seider a bit be much better for the team?

I don't believe the goal of a hockey team is pumping up the analytics of one particular player, no. Seider eating the hard minutes gives the Wings the best chance to win because, no, Holl or Chiarot can't take those minutes without coming off even worse.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Agreed to some extent. But getting demolished even in extremely tough minutes doesn’t really do anyone any favors, and makes it impossible to measure any progress. Incrementally wouldn’t throwing Holl and Chiarot out there in the same usage while sheltering Seider a bit be much better for the team?

He’s not getting demolished though.