Season ending interviews

[LowLefty]

I don't buy this. Almost all of our core players were integrated into the NHL by Maurice. They entered a room set up by Maurice and our vet hold overs from Atlanta.

Whatever bad habits they developed was learned in that environment. There is absolutely no way that Maurice didn't have a say in how the room was set up and run.

The team was bought into his coaching foe the first half decade he was here. There was no conversations of bad play, poor efforts etc during that time period.

After things fell off the rails in 2019 complacency and bad habits took hold. Do you actually thing Maurice just stopped coaching between 19 and 20?

I think the org didn't change things when things started going off rails and complacency across the board set in.

Now you have Bones trying to break yeas worth of bad habit forming.

I know you don't buy it - which is the reason I didn't respond to your posts on the topic.

 

[surixon]

I know you don't buy it - which is the reason I didn't respond to your posts on the topic.

Fair enough, I think there is blame enough to go around. You seem to think it's all on the players and management. We can agree to disagree on this.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I agree -
IMO, the org knew there were issues in the room - and they were not prepared to address them.
It's just as conceivable to assume they were not prepared to hold the players accountable - and the coach was asked to lay off.
Paul continues to pamper (as instructed) until he is tired of pampering and changes the tone.
At that point, the players shut him out - and he walks before the org fires him for not pampering.

I don't know how you blame the coach for any of this unless you expect the coach to ignore the direction he is given - which he ultimately did, but only after following orders for years knowing things were a mess.

I also think the players were completely aware of the mess, let the coach take the fall, and then jump on the Bones bandwagon as if the issue was coaching.
That strategy went off the rails when the players started ignoring Bones and his message.
Now it's damage control as Bones blows up in the last game and the org is forced to reel him back in - because they are still not prepared to hold the players accountable.

This isn't about Maurice being allowing to hang around too long - under the circumstances, would it have mattered who the coach was or how long they were behind the bench?
If I were to rephrase the issue, I'd simply state the Org did not allow the coach to coach - Players were in control.

I like this summation....

I think there is enough blame to go around, but that won't get us anywhere. I just hope that Chipman sees the issue, and corrects the issue.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The sentiment has been expressed that if Tkachuk was on the Jets, they would stop being fans. I wonder if those people still feel that way.

I do. Tkachuk is a dirty player. I don't care if he is the best player in the world, ever. I don't like him. I don't like his brother either or his father. And results are completely irrelevant. Playing hard is one thing but those guys cross the line. I can't respect that kind of person. I wouldn't want my children looking up to them as role models. So I can't cheer for them. I don't care how many trophies they have.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

To expand on the above, in our most successful season (pack of wolves season), I clearly remember all of our opponents calling us a dirty team. If you’re playing hard and tough, your opponent won’t like you and won’t like playing against you.

The rest of the league hated Buff. We seemed ok with him. As long as he’s our player I’m fine with it. Team success over everything else. Give me a team of Marchand’s and Tkachucks and we’re winning, I’ll be fine.

Reminds me of a U.S. lawyer commercial a few years back….”I may be an SOB, but I’ll be your SOB”

I don't recall seeing our players deliberately trying to injure other players. That's where I draw the line.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I don't recall seeing our players deliberately trying to injure other players. That's where I draw the line.

I know most Jets fans will never agree with me but I've always felt that Scheif's hit on Evans was a deliberate attempt to injure. He knew (or should have known) that he couldn't stop Evans from scoring and was going for punishment. And even if people want to argue that it was a legitimate hockey play to try and prevent a goal... well, it's not. You can't throw your shoulder at someone's head to prevent a goal. Ever. Under any circumstance.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I know most Jets fans will never agree with me but I've always felt that Scheif's hit on Evans was a deliberate attempt to injure. He knew (or should have known) that he couldn't stop Evans from scoring and was going for punishment. And even if people want to argue that it was a legitimate hockey play to try and prevent a goal... well, it's not. You can't throw your shoulder at someone's head to prevent a goal. Ever. Under any circumstance.

There is room for some uncertainty with that one. I don't remember shoulder to head though.

But, as usual. DOPS reacted according to the result, or the injured player's TOI, in setting the penalty.

Edit: Whatever else it may have been, it was a one-off, not a pattern.

 

[John Agar]

I'd change the last sentence to he was allowed to stay on too long....

Coaches almost never fire themselves, so what Maurice did was exceptional. He is now variably implicated in staying too long AND "quitting" the team. In actual fact, his bosses--he had two of them--let the situation deteriorate way too long. This is now a pattern of behaviour which is becoming very concerning.

I once called in an MHA apprentice coach with a Midget team that had tuned our coaching group out...

Long time ECHL player... no fricking not listening to that M'fo... he was there for only 2 weeks and 4 practices at the season half break... they listened to us after that... and everyone committed...

That team hadn't won a game in the first half of the season... they went onto win enough games in the 2nd half of the season to make the playoffs...

In the playoffs... they went on to the Winnipeg city championship final... best of 5... beat a team that had dropped down from a higher tier and beat them in 3 straight games to win the City Championship... my favorite team in my coaching experience... the last City championship of the 4 for me total in my life time... at 3 different levels and age groups.. and two cities... Winnipeg and Brandon...

Perhaps I could refer that tough old SOB from the ECHL to go guest coach for Bowness at the 2nd half break next season...

I have empathy for Maurice now... I had the option of not firing myself... he had no options left...

And I had no owner or GM to interfere with our kids... well parents... but they were Midgets... so they could tell their parents to F off if they embarrassed them..

 

[scelaton]

I once called in an MHA apprentice coach with a Midget team that had tuned our coaching group out...

Long time ECHL player... no fricking not listening to that M'fo... he was there for only 2 weeks and 4 practices at the season half break... they listened to us after that... and everyone committed...

That team hadn't won a game in the first half of the season... they went onto win enough games in the 2nd half of the season to make the playoffs...

In the playoffs... they went on to the Winnipeg city championship final... best of 5... beat a team that had dropped down from a higher tier and beat them in 3 straight games to win the City Championship... my favorite team in my coaching experience... the last City championship of the 4 for me total in my life time... at 3 different levels and age groups.. and two cities... Winnipeg and Brandon...

Perhaps I could refer that tough old SOB from the ECHL to go guest coach for Bowness at the 2nd half break next season...

I have empathy for Maurice now... I had the option of not firing myself... he had no options left...

And I had no owner or GM to interfere with our kids... well parents... but they were Midgets... so they could tell their parents to F off if they embarrassed them..

Really interesting story and you should feel proud for having the courage to call in help at the right time. We should all do that more often.

The question is, just because you found the right voice to turn those Midgets around, doe that mean there is always a coaching voice to turn a talented team around? Seems the Jets brass have thought so, but it's harder to do when the room is run by men making millions a year, who think they know best and figure they can outlast you.

 

[John Agar]

Really interesting story and you should feel proud for having the courage to call in help at the right time. We should all do that more often.

The question is, just because you found the right voice to turn those Midgets around, doe that mean there is always a coaching voice to turn a talented team around? Seems the Jets brass have thought so, but it's harder to do when the room is run by men making millions a year, who think they know best and figure they can outlast you.

Your question is spot on.

The answer I would give you is at 16 years old these "kids" who can tell their parents to F off, think they are adults. They were like stubborn street kids to us... needed a wake up call and a good lesson on what it takes to be a champion... this guy immediately understood what we were challenged with and figured out who were the snakes in the room running the asylum and cut off their heads figuratively. It wasn't just a listen to your coaches pep talk it was dealing with the "gangsters" first and moving on to constructive concepts in team play and team building.

Further my comment on sending in a guest coach wasn't a slight to Bowness... it was to frame the Jets room like a bunch of teenage kids who think they are running the asylum... same solution cut the head off the snake or snakes...

Thanks for the question...

Oh and Thanks... I am proud... proud of those kids... A life long lesson to prepare towards the rest of their life. It doesn't take Courage... it takes humility... the humility to focus on why you got into coaching in the first place... to teach kids hockey and life lessons... my sons had all graduated from hockey and were done... I just did it because I love coaching...

 

[Orrrules]

So was Adam Lowry just letting the cat out of the bag about Wheeler. Basically moving Wheeler out is the only way to break his spell.

 

[cbcwpg]

After the Oilers go out... " We needed to be better "

After the Jets go out... " We don't like being criticized by the coach "

 

[ps241]

After the Oilers go out... " We needed to be better "

After the Jets go out... " We don't like being criticized by the coach "

I really think if our team went down battling and competing hard that this mess wouldn’t be nearly as bad.

#1 total no show in the elimination game for the 3rd or 4th time in a row, St Louis, Calgary, Montreal, and Vegas. Fans I know were furious and still are.

#2 Bones basically echoes fan sentiment when he loses his shit on the disgusting effort in his post game presser (yea finally some emotion for once)

#3 players wake up and, hey, they choose to push back too little too late in defiance because of their hurt feelings on locker clean out day. Very disappointing reaction with not nearly enough accountability. Felt like an organized counter offensive. This made things way worse.

#4 press show up pissed off for once and roast Chevy who has his first total howler of a year end meet and greet. I felt he was trying to sell us a shitty time share in Mexico that looked like it was falling over and nobody was buying. Brutal tone deaf swing and a miss

#5 chipper pulls a WKRP in Cincinnati and hides in his office. He must be designing his next “threat to leave” tour shirts. So yea the empty seats are the customers fault. I wonder where the players get their lack of accountability from.

At least the organization has been silent for a few weeks which is good.

Clearly I haven’t bounced all the way back yet

 

[surixon]

I really think if our team went down battling and competing hard that this mess wouldn’t be nearly as bad.

#1 total no show in the elimination game for the 3rd or four time in a row St Louis, Calgary, Montreal, Vegas. Fans I know were furious and still are.

#2 Bones basically echoes fan sentiment when he loses his shit on the disgusting effort in his post games presser (yea finally some emotion for once)

#3 players finally wake up and push back in defiance because of their hurt feelings on locker clean out day. Very disappointing reaction with not nearly enough accountability. Felt like an organized counter offensive. This made things way worse.

#4 press show up pissed off for once and roast Chevy who has his first total howler of a year end meet and greet. I felt he was trying to sell us a shitty time share in Mexico that looked like it was falling over and nobody was buying. Brutal tone deaf swing and a miss

#5 chipper pulls a WKRP in Cincinnati and hides in his office. He must be designing his next “threat to leave” tour shirts. So yea the empty seats are the customers fault. I wonder where the players get their lack of accountability from.

At least the organization has been silent for a few weeks which is good.

Clearly I haven’t bounced all the way back yet

TNSE is holding a CPA networking event next month in which the president is doing an hour speech. I'm going to attend and see what the angle is there. My guess is they intend to try to push season tickets at it.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I really think if our team went down battling and competing hard that this mess wouldn’t be nearly as bad.

#1 total no show in the elimination game for the 3rd or four time in a row St Louis, Calgary, Montreal, Vegas. Fans I know were furious and still are.

#2 Bones basically echoes fan sentiment when he loses his shit on the disgusting effort in his post games presser (yea finally some emotion for once)

#3 players finally wake up and push back in defiance because of their hurt feelings on locker clean out day. Very disappointing reaction with not nearly enough accountability. Felt like an organized counter offensive. This made things way worse.

#4 press show up pissed off for once and roast Chevy who has his first total howler of a year end meet and greet. I felt he was trying to sell us a shitty time share in Mexico that looked like it was falling over and nobody was buying. Brutal tone deaf swing and a miss

#5 chipper pulls a WKRP in Cincinnati and hides in his office. He must be designing his next “threat to leave” tour shirts. So yea the empty seats are the customers fault. I wonder where the players get their lack of accountability from.

At least the organization has been silent for a few weeks which is good.

Clearly I haven’t bounced all the way back yet

You ain’t wrong

 

[KingBogo]

I really think if our team went down battling and competing hard that this mess wouldn’t be nearly as bad.

#1 total no show in the elimination game for the 3rd or four time in a row St Louis, Calgary, Montreal, Vegas. Fans I know were furious and still are.

#2 Bones basically echoes fan sentiment when he loses his shit on the disgusting effort in his post games presser (yea finally some emotion for once)

#3 players finally wake up and push back in defiance because of their hurt feelings on locker clean out day. Very disappointing reaction with not nearly enough accountability. Felt like an organized counter offensive. This made things way worse.

#4 press show up pissed off for once and roast Chevy who has his first total howler of a year end meet and greet. I felt he was trying to sell us a shitty time share in Mexico that looked like it was falling over and nobody was buying. Brutal tone deaf swing and a miss

#5 chipper pulls a WKRP in Cincinnati and hides in his office. He must be designing his next “threat to leave” tour shirts. So yea the empty seats are the customers fault. I wonder where the players get their lack of accountability from.

At least the organization has been silent for a few weeks which is good.

Clearly I haven’t bounced all the way back yet

IMO with such dysfunctional leadership at the ownership level and GM level we should expect nothing other than a toxic workplace. My fear and expectation is we will move out the so called problem players and they will go to excel in better run organizations. While nothing changes at the top in our organization and the well gets poisoned again for the next generation of players and we will watch the same mess unfold again over the next 5-10 years.

 

[scelaton]

IMO with such dysfunctional leadership at the ownership level and GM level we should expect nothing other than a toxic workplace. My fear and expectation is we will move out the so called problem players and they will go to excel in better run organizations. While nothing changes at the top in our organization and the well gets poisoned again for the next generation of players and we will watch the same mess unfold again over the next 5-10 years.

Yeah, it's pretty sad. People I know, who could afford season tickets and were willing to endure a decade or more of patient building, are walking away. And it's not because of the team's record, but rather that there has been no response to longstanding problems that are no longer a secret.

My view is that Chipman is way too busy saving the city and building an empire to infuse any creative energy to the club. So, he relies on his familiar, trusted lieutenants to keep it steady as she goes.

Maybe the top UFA we should be targeting this off-season is a president of hockey ops, with no preconceptions or alliances, to chart a new course. As it is, I have no idea whatsoever of the course they are taking. I wonder if they do.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

IMO with such dysfunctional leadership at the ownership level and GM level we should expect nothing other than a toxic workplace. My fear and expectation is we will move out the so called problem players and they will go to excel in better run organizations. While nothing changes at the top in our organization and the well gets poisoned again for the next generation of players and we will watch the same mess unfold again over the next 5-10 years.

After reading that article on Salt Lake City, the Jets seem like the perfect team to relocate there.

 

[surixon]

IMO with such dysfunctional leadership at the ownership level and GM level we should expect nothing other than a toxic workplace. My fear and expectation is we will move out the so called problem players and they will go to excel in better run organizations. While nothing changes at the top in our organization and the well gets poisoned again for the next generation of players and we will watch the same mess unfold again over the next 5-10 years.

This seems to be an issue with nearly all the Canadian teams.

Calgary, toxic room with Sutter and a meddling owner.

Ditto for Vancouver
Ottawa under Melynek was a laughing stock.
Edmonton had an awful culture based on Katz loving his old boys club and keeping them around.

Maybe Canadian owners are too much of fans and they then think they know better then perhaps their American counterparts.

Things seemingly turned around in Edmonton once Katz stepped back and put Nicolson in to oversee that aspect of the organization.

I think we are in a similar spot here with Chipman being too involved and having to big of a relationship with his hockey opps department and players. I think he needs to do similar to Katz and step back and allow someone to come in and oversee the team without his meddling.

 

[Stumbledore]

After the Oilers go out... " We needed to be better "

After the Jets go out... " We don't like being criticized by the coach "

I'd give this one a thousands likes if I could.

I've been watching the Oilers' sound clips from clean-out day and the difference between them and our beloved Jets is staggering. Talk about having a different culture!

 

[surixon]

I'd give this one a thousands likes if I could.

I've been watching the Oilers' sound clips from clean-out day and the difference between them and our beloved Jets is staggering. Talk about having a different culture!

Do they though? Their stars still don't play defense and a bunch of there players didn't show up. They may talk a big game but they as a collective haven't bought in to two way hockey and generally do all the same things our stars get torn apart for (cheat for offense, poor defensive efforts) etc. We juat don't have players as talented as them.

It's nice that they are saying what fans want to hear but talk is cheap.

 

[raideralex99]

Your question is spot on.

The answer I would give you is at 16 years old these "kids" who can tell their parents to F off, think they are adults. They were like stubborn street kids to us... needed a wake up call and a good lesson on what it takes to be a champion... this guy immediately understood what we were challenged with and figured out who were the snakes in the room running the asylum and cut off their heads figuratively. It wasn't just a listen to your coaches pep talk it was dealing with the "gangsters" first and moving on to constructive concepts in team play and team building.

Further my comment on sending in a guest coach wasn't a slight to Bowness... it was to frame the Jets room like a bunch of teenage kids who think they are running the asylum... same solution cut the head off the snake or snakes...

Thanks for the question...

Oh and Thanks... I am proud... proud of those kids... A life long lesson to prepare towards the rest of their life. It doesn't take Courage... it takes humility... the humility to focus on why you got into coaching in the first place... to teach kids hockey and life lessons... my sons had all graduated from hockey and were done... I just did it because I love coaching...

How many of those smart ass 16 year olds make it to the big league?
My guess would be ZERO.

 

[Eyeseeing]

This seems to be an issue with nearly all the Canadian teams.

Calgary, toxic room with Sutter and a meddling owner.

Ditto for Vancouver
Ottawa under Melynek was a laughing stock.
Edmonton had an awful culture based on Katz loving his old boys club and keeping them around.

Maybe Canadian owners are too much of fans and they then think they know better then perhaps their American counterparts.

Things seemingly turned around in Edmonton once Katz stepped back and put Nicolson in to oversee that aspect of the organization.

I think we are in a similar spot here with Chipman being too involved and having to big of a relationship with his hockey opps department and players. I think he needs to do similar to Katz and step back and allow someone to come in and oversee the team without his meddling.

This is a very good observation and likely a correct one.
The very successful EOS Entrepreneurial Operating System ( Book and managing software company) talks about delegating and letting go of the vine.
Some owners tend to micromanage and get in the way of their success.

Let Go of the Vine

The Delegate and Elevate™ tool helps leaders identify the things that are on their plate but would be better delegated to someone else, so those leaders can maximize the value they provide to the organization.

www.eosworldwide.com

 

[ps241]

TNSE is holding a CPA networking event next month in which the president is doing an hour speech. I'm going to attend and see what the angle is there. My guess is they intend to try to push season tickets at it.

So who is speaking to you guys is it the president of TNSE.

 

[surixon]

So who is speaking to you guys is it the president of TNSE.

John Olfert will be speaking.