Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[Gurglesons]

I COULD see a potential #3 + Petry for Letang as the base. Dunno...
If theres some pressure from Sid/G/Sully to move on from Letang, i can see the attempt there.
Theres no top flight C available at the top of this draft for MTL and MTL is no doubt on Tanger's approved list.

Let's have some fun in our down time here.
What would your #3 pick be if Dahlin+Svech went 1/2...?

It’d have to be a D.

 

[The Old Master]

Also, stick with the fun. Who would you pick @ #3?

hard call...….I might try to add our second and trade down and see if I could pick up another first. might not help us now but it could go a long way down the road.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

They'd just end up picking any draft eligible player who plays on the same team as Lauzon anyway, because they're that lazy.

 

[Peat]

Montreal would kill for Letang. I just don't think they really have anything we need for our most valuable asset. I'm all for making sure this team doesn't turn into the Fata, Surovy, Endicott Penguins of the Dark Years once Sid and Geno slow down dramatically, but I don't think trading our big chip for a top-5 pick makes sense unless it's a deal involving more pieces.

Get the pick right, and a top 5 dman is going to be contributing in the window. 4 of the top 10 dman picks in 2016 were NHL contributors in their +1 year, and that was in a supposedly weaker year.

Lets not talk about what happens if you get it wrong

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

No way in hell the Pens get a top 10 pick wrong.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Get the pick right, and a top 5 dman is going to be contributing in the window. 4 of the top 10 dman picks in 2016 were NHL contributors in their +1 year, and that was in a supposedly weaker year.

Lets not talk about what happens if you get it wrong

If you get it wrong, you get Pouliot instead of Trouba or Forsberg. I'll forever be bitter about that idiotic pick.

But yeah, I know we can probably get a serviceable NHL player, but I don't think that's worth moving our most valuable trade asset in Letang (or Kessel). We need guys who are young enough to be around for the long haul, who can also step in and be significant players for us immediately if we decide to move on from Letang and/or Kessel. Unless we're getting a top-3 pick in addition to a roster player, I don't think that's a deal we should make.

f*** it, just do it all in one go. Domi+OEL+5th overall for Kessel+Letang+53rd overall

 

[Peat]

Changing topics for a second, I think everyone agrees that the Penguins need a new 200 foot top-9 LWer. You've seen this mentioned by Bombulie as a part of the return that the Penguins would want for Kessel, and it just makes sense considering who the Penguins have on the roster. The Penguins probably won't re-sign Hagelin if he won't take a paycut, and in all honesty, I'd like to try and trade for someone else to replace him. Does anyone have any suggestions for who'd they target, and what they'd be willing to offer?

Pearson would be the gold standard for a Hagelin replacement, but I don't see how you can get him while not trading Kessel. I'd like to add a guy like that while also keeping Rust, but I'm not sure how easily you can do that.

I'd add Zucker and Saad to my gold standard list. Miiiiiight be able to get in on Saad by offering Schultz? Might not.

Less gold standard -

Ferling is out of contract at Calgary the same summer Hagelin is. Sobotka is on the outs at St Louis. Stat sheet watching suggests maybe Matt Nieto or one of the McGinns. Any of them going to replace Hags' overall impact though?

edit: Super optimistic, but Blueger/ZAR/Johnson isn't the worst chances of getting something there. Hopes and dreams I think I called it earlier.

If you get it wrong, you get Pouliot instead of Trouba or Forsberg. I'll forever be bitter about that idiotic pick.

But yeah, I know we can probably get a serviceable NHL player, but I don't think that's worth moving our most valuable trade asset in Letang (or Kessel). We need guys who are young enough to be around for the long haul, who can also step in and be significant players for us immediately if we decide to move on from Letang and/or Kessel. Unless we're getting a top-3 pick in addition to a roster player, I don't think that's a deal we should make.

**** it, just do it all in one go. Domi+OEL+5th overall for Kessel+Letang+53rd overall

Oh yeah, there needs to be a roster player there as well. Think the original proposal was Petry + 3rd.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Could Letang even fetch a Top 10 pick?

 

[Pens1566]

Anybody can pass the puck up to Crosby and Malkin and watch them score. That's why we won a Cup without Letang but would never win one with this roster without Crosby.

broken_record.gif

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Jordan Staal got the 8th overall, a good D prospect in Dumoulin, plus a 3rd line centre, and he's just a 2nd line centre himself. Letang despite your constant obsession with trashing him, is a #1 defenseman signed to a reasonable contract with term. He'd easily fetch a top 10 pick and more. NHL GM's don't live in your little fantasy world where Letang has negative value.

The last #1 defensemen that were traded were Subban and Weber....for each other. The last one before that was who? Pronger in, what, 2006? They very rarely get traded and when they do, they're worth a lot. Larsson got Taylor freaking Hall for crying out loud, and he isn't a number 1.

 

[PensandCaps]

Could Letang even fetch a Top 10 pick?

My god you're clueless.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Agreed across the board. It's one of the reasons I want JR to really explore moving Letang this summer.

Is Letang gonna get us an absolute king's ransom? Nah, probably not. But he'll bring back a significant haul, and GMs will line up around the block to have a shot at landing him.

Warts and all, Letang's got huge value. To think otherwise is foolish. He'll pretty easily bring back a significant, impact roster player, and either a very high pick or a fantastic prospect. Maybe more, but that's the basis of a return I think you'd see from numerous teams. It'd be up to JR and Sully to figure out which is the best package and which fits our team the best now as well as moving forward.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

You also end up a worse team in the short run by doing this and you force Rust into a position that he's less effective in. People say that they can't trade Kessel because they'll become worse next season, but they also advocate keeping Sprong and making the team worse? Doesn't make sense to me.



If you're not going to give up Sprong or another similarly high value asset, you're not getting an upgrade on what you have already. That LW group is extremely mediocre, and you'll likely see it take another hit with trading one of Hagelin or Sheary (probably Sheary). LW is probably the clearest weakness of the team in terms of position (so comparing LW to C, LD, RD and such), you're not going to improve it any tangible amount by just poking at it.

Now, if Rust was actually as effective on LW as he is on RW, you'd be perfect on LW. But he's not. One of Sprong, Kessel or Rust needs to go out for an actual LW improvement, you either do that or your LW depth is an issue.



A. I don't think you're paying a heavy price on Domi. And even if he doesn't work out as that 3rd wheel to Malkin and Kessel, why is that the only role he can work in? Why not LW with Malkin and Rust? Why not with Sid, where Guentzel slides down to play with Malkin and Kessel?
B. You're also not mentioning the risk that comes with not even knowing if Sprong is a NHL player. I'd rather gamble on Domi, a guy who's firmly established in the NHL, being effective here than Sprong.
C. There's also no guarantee that you're going to be able to pull off an actual LW upgrade for the cost that Domi would probably cost you in the offseason.

I feel like people are either really overrating Sprong or underrating Domi. Domi is only like a year older than Sprong and has proven to be a top-6 player already.

Well, you asked me why we would need to keep Sprong, and the main one would be if we intend to lose Kessel. If we trade Sprong now, and Kessel next offseason, then we go from having awesome RW depth to having Rust and PH as your top 2 RW's.

So we either have to ride out Kessel's deal, or keep Sprong. We can't be trading Sprong for a "fit" fix on LW. I think we can't be trading either until we know what Sprong will be at the NHL level.

We're making this way harder than it needs to be. Just package up Sheary plus whatever futures are needed to get our fit on LW, or sign someone and trade Sheary for a pick. You've got guys out there like Comeau, Roussel, Calvert, or Pouliot that could probably be signed for reasonable deals and could slide down to a really good L4 LW if Rust outplays them on LW, and you give up nothing.

 

[Jacob]

I have seen no issues with Rust on LW. What am I not seeing?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well, you asked me why we would need to keep Sprong, and the main one would be if we intend to lose Kessel. If we trade Sprong now, and Kessel next offseason, then we go from having awesome RW depth to having Rust and PH as your top 2 RW's.

So we either have to ride out Kessel's deal, or keep Sprong. We can't be trading Sprong for a "fit" fix on LW. I think we can't be trading either until we know what Sprong will be at the NHL level.

I don't see why you have to do that, to be honest. You don't need to have either Kessel or Sprong in the long run, and without either of them, you still have 2 top-6 RWers. They don't need to cling to 4 guys who are either top-6ers or future top-6ers because they'd only have 2 top-6 wingers if you trade 2 of them. You can trade Sprong for a LWer this offseason, trade Kessel for futures next offseason and then sign a 2nd or 3rd line offensive RW and be completely fine.

We're making this way harder than it needs to be. Just package up Sheary plus whatever futures are needed to get our fit on LW, or sign someone and trade Sheary for a pick. You've got guys out there like Comeau, Roussel, Calvert, or Pouliot that could probably be signed for reasonable deals and could slide down to a really good L4 LW if Rust outplays them on LW, and you give up nothing.

A. You're not going to get any sort of upgrade on LW by offering a package starting with Sheary.
B. There is no one in free agency that is an upgrade on what the Penguins have, that the Penguins can afford. Guys like the guys you listed do absolutely nothing to address the Penguins issues on LW, they're all worse than Hagelin and probably worse than Sheary.

The Penguins need another top-6 LWer. Unless you're paying JVR $7 million a season, you're not getting an upgrade on who you have right now in free agency. If the Penguins would trade Sprong for Domi and trade Kessel for futures, they'd have 2 top-6 LWers and 2 top-6 RWers long term and a lot of cap space to work with to fill the rest of the roster. This really just sounds like not wanting to give up your team's best prospect, that's all it really is. You're basically neglecting your actual areas of need in the name of preventing an area of strength from weakening.

Within the next 2 years, the Penguins already questionable LW depth is going to take an even bigger hit when Hagelin leaves in free agency and Sheary is traded for cap relief. Your LW depth becomes horrendous immediately, because it goes from Guentzel to ZAR to nothing. Even with Rust on LW, your LW depth is still really bad. The Penguins have both an immediate need for a LW improvement and an even bigger long term need for LWers. Even with the Penguins trading both Kessel and Sprong for nothing, their RW depth is in a stronger position long term than their LW depth. Sprong for Domi, in this case, would ensure that your top-6 wing spots are all filled with top-6 caliber players.

I have seen no issues with Rust on LW. What am I not seeing?

Rust is dramatically less effective defensively on his off wing, and that's basically his biggest attribute. If anything, they should be moving Sprong to LW, because he already sucks defensively and his biggest attributes would benefit from being on his off wing.

 

[mpp9]

No way in hell the Pens get a top 10 pick wrong.

I could be convinced it’s worth it if we use the cap space to fill another roster spot or two. Or bring in another impact player.

Domi’s still cheap and likely won’t break the bank given his down season. So something around him and the 5th overall with a couple moves via trade or free agency could potentially work out.

Or it could nuke our cup window. Either way.

 

[WayneSid9987]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Letang was on the block moreso than Phil.
I don't think theres any question JR would move one of them if the deal made sense.
And given what Phil has done the last 3 years vs Letang(and winning a Cup without him), it just wouldn't surprise me...
Sully is no dummy. Neither is Sid, nor JR.

 

[Pens1566]

I think I'd rather move Sprong to LW. His game will be less hampered by the switch than Rust will. Worked for Neal in reverse. He was primarily a LW early on in Dallas, and sometime between then and lighting it up with Geno he made the switch.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think I'd rather move Sprong to LW. His game will be less hampered by the switch than Rust will. Worked for Neal in reverse. He was primarily a LW early on in Dallas, and sometime between then and lighting it up with Geno he made the switch.

I honestly don't know why they haven't switched him over yet, or at least started to give him shifts at LW. Sullivan actually seems more willing to have righties on LW and lefties on RW than a lot of other coaches in the NHL, he has played a good amount of players on their off wings for extended periods of time.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They'd just end up picking any draft eligible player who plays on the same team as Lauzon anyway, because they're that lazy.

I hope they aren't, I think that was more of Shero's thing though. I don't recall JR doing any of that sort of thing with the Pens anyway.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I honestly don't know why they haven't switched him over yet, or at least started to give him shifts at LW. Sullivan actually seems more willing to have righties on LW and lefties on RW than a lot of other coaches in the NHL, he has played a good amount of players on their off wings for extended periods of time.

I expected them to try him on LW last year in WBS. Sprong has said he's fine on LW, he played some in the minors, and yeah, he'd be able to use his shot more effectively. That being said, I don't think it's happening at this point.

In any case, I just don't think you can move both Sprong and Kessel, I think one should be here for the cup window of the next few years. And I think Hags should be with Geno, and Guentzel with Sid based on what we've got on RW. You're the one that floated that we may well be able to extend Hags for a reasonable deal based on PH being here, and I don't disagree.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I expected them to try him on LW last year in WBS. Sprong has said he's fine on LW, he played some in the minors, and yeah, he'd be able to use his shot more effectively. That being said, I don't think it's happening at this point.

In any case, I just don't think you can move both Sprong and Kessel, I think one should be here for the cup window of the next few years. And I think Hags should be with Geno, and Guentzel with Sid based on what we've got on RW. You're the one that floated that we may well be able to extend Hags for a reasonable deal based on PH being here, and I don't disagree.

I originally had that thought, but I was thinking Hagelin would take a pay cut to stay here because I don't consider him a $4 million player. People were arguing that with a rising cap, Hagelin isn't going to get a decrease on his next contract. If he'd sign for $3 million a year, I'd love to have him back, but teams will probably be offering him $4.5-$5 million a year just because they have the money to burn. Nikolai Kulemin got a 4 year deal at about $4.2 million in 2014, after having 8 goals and 18 points in 64 games the season before. If Hagelin has a competent season next year, and the cap hits $83+ million, why's he going to take a paycut? He could hit near $5 million because teams are stupid in free agency.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I originally had that thought, but I was thinking Hagelin would take a pay cut to stay here because I don't consider him a $4 million player. People were arguing that with a rising cap, Hagelin isn't going to get a decrease on his next contract. If he'd sign for $3 million a year, I'd love to have him back, but teams will probably be offering him $4.5-$5 million a year just because they have the money to burn. Nikolai Kulemin got a 4 year deal at about $4.2 million in 2014, after having 8 goals and 18 points in 64 games the season before. If Hagelin has a competent season next year, and the cap hits $83+ million, why's he going to take a paycut? He could hit near $5 million because teams are stupid in free agency.

We'd only be able to pull it off if we did it this summer. We're not a team that needs him to score his usual 17 ES goals, we need everything else he does.

I don't think it's likely to happen, but it's possible, and it would help inform our other personnel decisions this summer and during the season.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

All these hot takes are hilarious. Rust himself said he feels more comfortable, prefers playing, and has more experience on the Left Wing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

All these hot takes are hilarious. Rust himself said he feels more comfortable, prefers playing, and has more experience on the Left Wing.

Coach don't curr...