Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Guys just use the ignore option. It makes this site 50% better. It would be 100%, but I still end up reading responses from otherwise good posters.

But then I might miss out on things like the belly laugh I got from that Sheary post. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I want Domi in addition to keeping Sprong, if there's no way to achieve that, then **** getting Domi. We need a prospect like Sprong and I don't see this team dealing off more talented wingers that might or might not pan out for big trades any time soon even with the window to win right now. You need to constantly add new blood and Sprong needs to be that new blood this team adds. Especially one that is shoot first. Domi is a pass first guy and yeah we definitely need that too as we have some decent shooters on the team but not a lot of creativity out of the first two lines.

But if that means the Pens trade a 1st (next year) and Sheary for Domi, then cool. Otherwise, no.

Why do the Penguins need a prospect like Sprong? They're completely filled on RW, with having arguably 3 top-6 RWers. The spot that Sprong would play on the powerplay is currently occupied by Kessel, and even without Kessel, they have guys who can be effective in that role (mainly Schultz or Letang). Sprong plays a position of strength within the organization and his biggest strength is wasted as long as the Penguins keep Kessel. Now, you also have to add on that Sullivan doesn't like Sprong.

And on the next part, I don't really know how you can legitimately say that. If you want more creativity in your bottom-6, you want Domi over Sprong. Sprong isn't a creative player, Domi is. Sprong's a guy you put with a creative player and he scores a bunch of goals because of it, he's not a guy that creates offense like Domi is. Adding Domi to the team is adding new blood, so I don't get that point either.

I have yet to see an actual reason for why the Penguins need to keep Sprong. He's not liked by his coaching staff, he only plays RW when the Penguins are extremely deep at RW and his ability on the powerplay is wasted as long as the Penguins have Kessel. So what's the point of keeping him over trading him for a guy that actually fills a need for the team? It just doesn't make any sense from any point of view to say no to trading Sprong for a more proven, young top-6 LWer with high upside.

Sheary is better offensively, faster and overall more consistent. Simon is better along the boards and uses his size better and is cheaper. But he's also slower and very inconsistent. Of the two I'd take Sheary every single day if we could afford him.

How can you seriously say that Sheary is more consistent than Simon? What the hell? Sheary's biggest issue more than anything else is that he's insanely inconsistent.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Thanks to the Crosby stimulus package. He's never sniffed those numbers without him.



Not less valuable. Just less impressive. If you brought up a highlight reel of a forwards and defensmens 50 assist. You are going to get a lot more meaningless assist on the d's end.

I guess you it's good you don't get extra points for being more "impressive."

Dagnabbit. You got me again.

 

[Peat]

I don't think it's unrealistic at all. In his career, he has averaged about 38 ES points per 82 games, and that's while playing with Arizona. It's not exactly a stretch to think he can hit 40+ while playing with Malkin or Crosby, with about 10 powerplay points.

Getting 10 points from the second unit is the bit I find a stretch, not getting around 40 if playing with Malkin and Crosby and showing chemistry.

How can you seriously say that Sheary is more consistent than Simon? What the hell? Sheary's biggest issue more than anything else is that he's insanely inconsistent.

Sheary has consistently looked like he belongs in the NHL. Simon hasn't. I'd agree Sheary has been very inconsistent, but Simon even more so...

But then I might miss out on things like the belly laugh I got from that Sheary post. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

The Gospel of Mick and Keith has some good advice for moments like this - You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, you get what you need

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Why do the Penguins need a prospect like Sprong? They're completely filled on RW, with having arguably 3 top-6 RWers. The spot that Sprong would play on the powerplay is currently occupied by Kessel, and even without Kessel, they have guys who can be effective in that role (mainly Schultz or Letang). Sprong plays a position of strength within the organization and his biggest strength is wasted as long as the Penguins keep Kessel. Now, you also have to add on that Sullivan doesn't like Sprong.

And on the next part, I don't really know how you can legitimately say that. If you want more creativity in your bottom-6, you want Domi over Sprong. Sprong isn't a creative player, Domi is. Sprong's a guy you put with a creative player and he scores a bunch of goals because of it, he's not a guy that creates offense like Domi is. Adding Domi to the team is adding new blood, so I don't get that point either.

I have yet to see an actual reason for why the Penguins need to keep Sprong. He's not liked by his coaching staff, he only plays RW when the Penguins are extremely deep at RW and his ability on the powerplay is wasted as long as the Penguins have Kessel. So what's the point of keeping him over trading him for a guy that actually fills a need for the team? It just doesn't make any sense from any point of view to say no to trading Sprong for a more proven, young top-6 LWer with high upside.



How can you seriously say that Sheary is more consistent than Simon? What the hell? Sheary's biggest issue more than anything else is that he's insanely inconsistent.

Mike, you need to stop smoking cigars and drinking guinness and posting on forums and find a way to replace Recchi to reign you in man.

 

[Riptide]

This has been something that people have actually somewhat been ignoring up to this point, Sprong isn't under contract for next season right now. He might be cheap, but that might only be for a year if he gets a 1 year deal and explodes next season. It's also possible he holds out and wants something like $1.5 million a year, and at that point, he's not exactly cheap anymore. The safe bet is that he'll get basically a 2 year extended ELC, similar to what Dumoulin got in 2015, but that's not a guarantee.

I would bet a lot right now that Sprong's next contract is well under 1m, and is closer to the league minimum then 1m (which basically means something in the range of 800k or so). I would also bet that it will probably be a 2 yr deal.

AHL success aside, he just doesn't have the NHL numbers to really force anything here. Which is great for us.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Getting 10 points from the second unit is the bit I find a stretch, not getting around 40 if playing with Malkin and Crosby and showing chemistry.

I don't think 10 points on the 2nd PP unit is exactly a stretch. Bonino had 11 powerplay points while pretty much solely playing on the 2nd unit in 2016-2017, and I think Domi would probably play a similar role to what Bonino did on that PP unit. Domi isn't someone like Sheary, Domi would probably be one of the drivers on that powerplay unit.

Sheary has consistently looked like he belongs in the NHL. Simon hasn't. I'd agree Sheary has been very inconsistent, but Simon even more so...

That's not exactly what I imagined they meant when they said "consistency"

I think that just has to do with Sheary being a better player than Simon is. Sheary is better than Simon, but the difference isn't that huge.

Mike, you need to stop smoking cigars and drinking guinness and posting on forums and find a way to replace Recchi to reign you in man.

I do think the Sullivan factor is unfair for Sprong, but the Penguins having Rust, Kessel and Hornqvist already isn't a Sullivan factor.

I would bet a lot right now that Sprong's next contract is well under 1m, and is closer to the league minimum then 1m (which basically means something in the range of 800k or so). I would also bet that it will probably be a 2 yr deal.

AHL success aside, he just doesn't have the NHL numbers to really force anything here. Which is great for us.

But you can't force him to sign a contract, though. He has other options if the Penguins aren't offering a satisfactory deal. Sprong is in a weird case because it's very uncommon for players to have expiring ELCs while having such little pro experience.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I guess you it's good you don't get extra points for being more "impressive."

Dagnabbit. You got me again.

Anybody can pass the puck up to Crosby and Malkin and watch them score. That's why we won a Cup without Letang but would never win one with this roster without Crosby.

 

[Riptide]

How can you seriously say that Sheary is more consistent than Simon? What the hell? Sheary's biggest issue more than anything else is that he's insanely inconsistent.

Very easily - because it's true. But that's much more of a statement towards Simon then it is Sheary. Simon makes Sheary look very consistent due to how extremely inconsistent Simon is.

 

[Riptide]

But you can't force him to sign a contract, though. He has other options if the Penguins aren't offering a satisfactory deal.

Not really. I mean sure he can go to Europe, but given that he will absolutely be playing in the NHL next season (either in PIT or elsewhere) due to his waiver status, if he doesn't sign a contract with PIT, he will be losing out on hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[Jacob]

Not less valuable. Just less impressive. If you brought up a highlight reel of a forwards and defensmens 50 assist. You are going to get a lot more meaningless assist on the d's end.

Alright, I see where this is going.

 

[Turin]

If Tavares is going to sign in LA it TO that’d probably nix any potential Phil deal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not really. I mean sure he can go to Europe, but given that he will absolutely be playing in the NHL next season (either in PIT or elsewhere) due to his waiver status, if he doesn't sign a contract with PIT, he will be losing out on hundreds of thousands of dollars.

That's not true, especially if he goes to the KHL. It's also not a guarantee that he'd end up losing out by going to the SHL or another European league, either. People are ignoring that it's not a guarantee that Sprong gets the chances his talent level suggests he should be getting, because of who the Penguins have on RW. If it's putting up huge numbers in the SHL or getting stuck behind Rust and Hornqvist in the NHL, I'm not sure he's better off in the NHL in terms of money.

 

[SouthGeorge]

How long does it take to be able to post threads in the trade section? I really need to get to work and wheel and deal and see what we can get for Letang.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

How long does it take to be able to post threads in the trade section? I really need to get to work and wheel and deal and see what we can get for Letang.

Now you're just trying too hard.

 

[Riptide]

How long does it take to be able to post threads in the trade section? I really need to get to work and wheel and deal and see what we can get for Letang.

And here I thought you had embarrassed yourself enough here already... But please go ahead... this should be entertaining.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Now you're just trying too hard.

Back in the day I told my friend who's a Shark fan. I wanted to do Flower, Letang, Neal for Marlaeu, Burns, and I forget the last player. We both lost Flower and Marlaeu for nothing. They could have had a motivated Flower for us in the SCF. Sharks lose this year to.. Flower and Neal. Sharks would finally have a goalie. We would have had our veteran/3rd C that averages 50 points a season. We would have got a slight upgrade defensively/offensively while they get a similar but slightly less skilled defensemen but get a sniper in Neal for all the playmakers they have. Hindsight this would have been a great trade for both teams. Maybe they actually put up a fight against us in SCF. Maybe we could have actually been a dynasty.

 

[Riptide]

That's not true, especially if he goes to the KHL. It's also not a guarantee that he'd end up losing out by going to the SHL or another European league, either. People are ignoring that it's not a guarantee that Sprong gets the chances his talent level suggests he should be getting, because of who the Penguins have on RW. If it's putting up huge numbers in the SHL or getting stuck behind Rust and Hornqvist in the NHL, I'm not sure he's better off in the NHL in terms of money.

We're talking about THIS season. The highest SHL team (2 years ago) had a payroll of ~5.3m USD. The lowest had a payroll of ~3.2m. The league average was 4.54m. Figure in 23 players a roster, and that has an average salary of 197k USD. It might have gone up a little in the past few years... but the idea that someone who has only played 1 pro season is going to make more or the same in the SHL is absurd. He might have a chance to do that in the KHL, but that's based on the idea that he'd even be willing to go there. Seeing how his parents moved to Canada to better pursue his NHL dream, I doubt that. And even then, other than the high profile players, the average KHL salary isn't much higher then the SHL salaries. And given that his likely NHL contract will be in the 700-950k range... yeah he would lose out on hundreds of thousands of dollars if he went to Europe.

It's not even about what his chances and skill level are. He needs to clear waivers and odds are he wouldn't clear. That means he's staying in the NHL even if he's sitting on the bench. That might be in PIT or it might be elsewhere due to a trade or waivers... but in the process he's earning an NHL paycheque.

 

[The Old Master]

Why do the Penguins need a prospect like Sprong? They're completely filled on RW, with having arguably 3 top-6 RWers. The spot that Sprong would play on the powerplay is currently occupied by Kessel, and even without Kessel, they have guys who can be effective in that role (mainly Schultz or Letang). Sprong plays a position of strength within the organization and his biggest strength is wasted as long as the Penguins keep Kessel. Now, you also have to add on that Sullivan doesn't like Sprong.

And on the next part, I don't really know how you can legitimately say that. If you want more creativity in your bottom-6, you want Domi over Sprong. Sprong isn't a creative player, Domi is. Sprong's a guy you put with a creative player and he scores a bunch of goals because of it, he's not a guy that creates offense like Domi is. Adding Domi to the team is adding new blood, so I don't get that point either.

I have yet to see an actual reason for why the Penguins need to keep Sprong. He's not liked by his coaching staff, he only plays RW when the Penguins are extremely deep at RW and his ability on the powerplay is wasted as long as the Penguins have Kessel. So what's the point of keeping him over trading him for a guy that actually fills a need for the team? It just doesn't make any sense from any point of view to say no to trading Sprong for a more proven, young top-6 LWer with high upside.



How can you seriously say that Sheary is more consistent than Simon? What the hell? Sheary's biggest issue more than anything else is that he's insanely inconsistent.

you can always count on him to be inconsistent...….consistently inconsistent.

 

[sovietsanta87]

I won't forget that game winning goal in game #2 of the 2017 finals against the sharks anytime soon.

Me neither. I was there! Haha

 

[Return of the Paek]

I appreciate what Sheary did for this team the last 3 years, but we definitely need to move-on from him and his $3m cap-hit. Isn't it blatantly obvious that we should be doing everything we can to dump he and Hunwick even for nothing more than cap relief?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

HFBoards discourse at its finest.

Okay.

He's a non-entity when not getting carried by Sid. He's disappeared and been wholly inept in the playoffs three years in a row. He can't play in a tight-checking, physical environment. He's making too big a chunk of change to play on the 4th line. He's infinitely better at RW, and we're overly crowded in that position. We have a replacement with a better upside and better natural ability as far as shooting goes in Sprong. He's woeful defensively.

I didn't know I had to point it all out. /shrug

He's nothing here. I doubt he even has any value as an asset, but he should be dumped asap.

 

[Andy99]

And yet in what everyone on here described as a **** season still scored 17 goals, and still had the best SAT numbers out of every single one of our forwards in the POs. And he wasn't getting any more OZ starts then anyone else on the team (other than Sheahan's 4th line) - CS was at 55% (33/27).



Sheary is better offensively, faster and overall more consistent. Simon is better along the boards and uses his size better and is cheaper. But he's also slower and very inconsistent. Of the two I'd take Sheary every single day if we could afford him.



He had very good chemistry with both Sheahan and Brassard these POs. The guy adds legit skilled depth to any roster. And given how few skilled wingers we actually have (aka guys who can hang onto the puck and make a play with it), we need to be very careful about getting rid of them. Especially if we're talking about potentially trading Kessel.

This is all true, and yet he has some glaring weaknesses and his strengths are something we have covered in large part with other players...true, he may score more at ES but we have enough small wingers who have more versatility, even if they may not be as good offensively as Sheary. My preference given his salary is to try to trade him to bring back a gritty winger who’s better defensively and along the boards, even at the expense of a little offense. It’s something we don’t have...that winger is NOT Simon at this point...he’s shown similar deficiencies as Sheary with none of the speed or scoring touch...

 

[Jacob]

Even if you like Sheary I just don't know where you think he fits on this team. With Kessel, Sprong, Horny, Guentzel, Hagelin and Rust, he's on the 4th line. And that's neither his game nor his pay grade.

That's why I suggested Kassian. Edmonton has some issues on the wings, with throw-aways like Rattie and Caggiula playing top 9 roles, and I figure Jujhar Khaira probably brings all that Kassian does if not even a bit more already, so Kassian might be expendable to them. He makes about half what Sheary does, and in general is everything we need but don't have. Big, bullish, moderately skilled and can PK. Comes with some off-ice baggage. Who cares.

 

[Peat]

I don't think 10 points on the 2nd PP unit is exactly a stretch. Bonino had 11 powerplay points while pretty much solely playing on the 2nd unit in 2016-2017, and I think Domi would probably play a similar role to what Bonino did on that PP unit. Domi isn't someone like Sheary, Domi would probably be one of the drivers on that powerplay unit.

Bonino only did it after that 2nd PP unit went loco after Streit came in. And I'm pretty sure he's the only 2nd PP guy to do it (think Guentz has done it with a decent share of 1PP time).

Not saying it can't be done - but its not a comfortable expectation. I'm not expecting Guentzel to get 10 points if he's mainly restricted to 2nd PP.

Particularly when Domi's never been higher than the 4th most productive guy on Arizona's 1st PP.

Even if you like Sheary I just don't know where you think he fits on this team. With Kessel, Sprong, Horny, Guentzel, Hagelin and Rust, he's on the 4th line. And that's neither his game nor his pay grade.

That's why I suggested Kassian. Edmonton has some issues on the wings, with throw-aways like Rattie and Caggiula playing top 9 roles, and I figure Jujhar Khaira probably brings all that Kassian does if not even a bit more already, so Kassian might be expendable to them. He makes about half what Sheary does, and in general is everything we need but don't have. Big, bullish, moderately skilled and can PK. Comes with some off-ice baggage. Who cares.

Yeah, I like the theory here.

But I would demur that Sheary has been effective on the 4th line and we're gonna be losing at least one of those other wings (I reckon). Still saying trade him, but I think if he stays there'll be a role.

Plus, lets be honest, all these predictions of who'll play where in a fully healthy in form line up are hollow lies. Horny misses about 10 games a season like clockwork, Rust a few more, Hagelin will spend half a season demanding that 4th line place... injuries happen, we will want depth. Still saying trade Sheary though!