Salary Cap: Salary Cap 2015: Opinions are like Kunitz on the 1st line - Maybe you shouldn't

[Riptide]

as one of Kunitz and Scuderi's biggest/loudest detractors (on this board), I have no problem giving them respect, as humans and as hockey players. While I can't speak for everyone, I will say a large part of my reaction to both is a compensation for the bending over to "respect them" that the Penguins, the coaches, and the media do. I simply find most of it to be incredibly insulting.

I think you'd have a massive argument over that status as there seems to be a lot of very vocal individuals with strong opinions on these two players.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Is Fehr going on LTIR? I thought I heard he'd be ready soon.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah, which seems weird. I think Tangradi had to actually drive to Wheeling when he was sent there.

So Sundqvist has to pack his **** and drive to Pittsburgh, even though he might even be sent back before he gets here?

I don't know why that is and whose job it is to actually make sure that these guys are reporting to (or traveling to) their destinations and not just sitting around and making it a paper-only transaction.

Do they actually have to sign in?

If so, what do you purpose? Forge their names?

Rules are rules.

 

[dePENSonFleury]

Wait... Ninety-nine people believe in global warming... or one?

 

[madinsomniac]

A little while back I posted stats from a site that tracked NHL retirement ages for the last decade. while the low end is skewered high from a disproportionate amoung of young guys who couldnt cut it, established vets rarely make it past 32 much less 35. Thats why the flaw in the Pens paying near market value for non superstars in that age group and giving them term on top of it was so absurd... its just common sense that these guys would become more injury prone and see a drop off in talent.

 

[Asuna]

http://dkpittsburghsports.com/2015/10/06/penguins-2015-16-belief-in-johnston-grows/

Johnston is as reserved as it gets. Late last season, he was asked how his locker room was handling the loss of so many key players. He responded that he “didn’t know” because he “never goes in there.”

Does anyone else find that hilarious?

 

[billybudd]

A little while back I posted stats from a site that tracked NHL retirement ages for the last decade. while the low end is skewered high from a disproportionate amoung of young guys who couldnt cut it, established vets rarely make it past 32 much less 35. Thats why the flaw in the Pens paying near market value for non superstars in that age group and giving them term on top of it was so absurd... its just common sense that these guys would become more injury prone and see a drop off in talent.

In Scuderi's case, maybe. In Kunitz' case, what he's being paid doesn't buy you an inch more production than you're getting from him unless you've drafted him (Kreider), he's unproven (Panarin...who might make $4 million if he hits his bonuses, so he's not exactly cheaper if it all works out) and/or you've signed him with term prior to a breakout season (Simmonds).

The problem was not that Kunitz was re-signed for years for what he was. The problem is that we had no cost-effective internal solution capable of anywhere near the production as an old Kunitz at the time, despite what people wanted to pretend. Kunitz's contract is not a matter of favoritism or holding onto the past. It's a matter of bad drafting. Full stop.

 

[IcedCapp]

"Asked how he intended to attack the Rangers, Johnston replied, 'don't know, never heard of them. Not really into the NHL.'"

 

[Ugene Magic]

http://dkpittsburghsports.com/2015/10/06/penguins-2015-16-belief-in-johnston-grows/



Does anyone else find that hilarious?

Ding...!

 

[Speaking Moistly]

http://dkpittsburghsports.com/2015/10/06/penguins-2015-16-belief-in-johnston-grows/



Does anyone else find that hilarious?

Eh, better than "they've all been in the fetal position sobbing since Dupuis went down, but Adams and Scuderi are getting them through it."

 

[Gurglesons]

http://dkpittsburghsports.com/2015/10/06/penguins-2015-16-belief-in-johnston-grows/



Does anyone else find that hilarious?

Any other brilliant quotes in that article?

 

[DoktorZaius]

That's a distinct difference and a good one IMO. He doesn't pal around with guys in the locker room -- fine by me -- his job is to coach them, not live vicariously through his players.

 

[cajal]

Any other brilliant quotes in that article?

This was my favorite, from Kunitz:
“It’s OK,†he said, nodding his head forward. “They have such different approaches, but the messages they send are the same.â€

I guess that means "go out and win, try not to lose".
eek.

 

[Common Sense]

Is Fehr going on LTIR? I thought I heard he'd be ready soon.

I've heard everything from opening day to January for his return.

 

[Coastal Kev]

http://dkpittsburghsports.com/2015/10/06/penguins-2015-16-belief-in-johnston-grows/



Does anyone else find that hilarious?

It confirms everything I ever thought of the guy. He is an empty suit and poor leader. It's why you will see vets be catered to and youth critiqued.

Yay we have Kessel!

 

[Speaking Moistly]

That's a distinct difference and a good one IMO. He doesn't pal around with guys in the locker room -- fine by me -- his job is to coach them, not live vicariously through his players.

Yeah, I don't actually have a problem with the HC ignoring what's going on in the locker room as long as someone is making sure it hasn't gone all Lord of the Flies in there. Johnston being detached there isn't a bad thing, it's probably preferable to caring too much, even if I think the org has people doing it to their detriment anyway.

Or maybe it leads to him making incorrect assumptions, idk.

 

[WayneSid9987]

MJ doesn't seem the rah rah, hang out with the guys type.
He's a hockey nerd who'd rather watch game tape.

ETA: Also someone will be called up/in Dallas. I'd probably go with Sundqvist cuz he can kill penalties. Might be someone else though.

 

[lettuceAA]

Have any you played competitive hockey before? Head coaches generally stay out of the room and rarely mingle with players. Its an asst coach and the captain's job to look after that stuff.

When I was playing Jr you wouldn't see the coach until 10 minutes before game time. If he had an issue or wanted to talk to you he'd call you to his office.

 

[IcedCapp]

Have any you played competitive hockey before? Head coaches generally stay out of the room and rarely mingle with players. Its an asst coach and the captain's job to look after that stuff.

When I was playing Jr you wouldn't see the coach until 10 minutes before game time. If he had an issue or wanted to talk to you he'd call you to his office.

here is my issue with it:

I know a lot of coaches who are hands off, who act in much of the same way, but none have been in a position like this. Let me explain.

Last year I saw a coach in his first year in the NHL. I saw him work a team harder than I've seen any other team be worked on a regular basis. Then, his team started falling apart due to injuries. And he worked them. Then, his team stopped scoring. And he worked them.

Maybe he wants to be hands off. Maybe he wants to let the room take care of the room. But all of the other coaches I knew/know who were/are like that always, without being there, had the pulse of the room. And all of them would have backed way the **** off last year.

 

[Asuna]

here is my issue with it:

I know a lot of coaches who are hands off, who act in much of the same way, but none have been in a position like this. Let me explain.

Last year I saw a coach in his first year in the NHL. I saw him work a team harder than I've seen any other team be worked on a regular basis. Then, his team started falling apart due to injuries. And he worked them. Then, his team stopped scoring. And he worked them.

Maybe he wants to be hands off. Maybe he wants to let the room take care of the room. But all of the other coaches I knew/know who were/are like that always, without being there, had the pulse of the room. And all of them would have backed way the **** off last year.

Do you know if that was addressed in any way?

 

[lettuceAA]

Yea that's fair. I agree with you there and that is an issue. His assistants and captains are just as much to blame with that though. If it was issue with the locker room there is typically lines of communication for the head coach to hear there concerns. He doesn't have to be spending his time in the locker room, that's not his job.

 

[Riptide]

Two things I really liked about this article. I feel that because it's Lovejoy talking, people will tend to dismiss it. But this is nice to hear. Especially the fact that he'll change things up even if they're not working. We saw that with Kunitz last year where he was moved from Sid to Malkin's line early on when Malkin was having issues scoring. It was an attempt to balance out the scoring.


http://dkpittsburghsports.com/2015/10/06/penguins-2015-16-belief-in-johnston-grows/

It took a while for Mike Johnston to win over his players last season. He was the new guy, was far more reserved than his predecessor, and was coaching a team that seemed doomed for failure because of injuries.

But it happened during the playoffs in a meeting at the Penguins’ hotel on the southern edge of Central Park. The coach, whose relationships with players is peripheral by design, finally gained their confidence.

“It was before Game 2 against the Rangers,†defenseman Ben Lovejoy said. “He gave us a chance to win the series.â€

The Penguins lost Game 1 of that series, 2-1. But the game wasn’t really close, as the speedy Rangers had the Penguins on the run for much of the evening.

This prompted Johnston to scrap everything. Lovejoy explained that, in particular, the Rangers’ exceptional speed at left wing had given the Penguins fits in Game 1. So, to combat Chris Kreider and Co., Johnston devised a plan that was entirely different than what he had preposed before Game 1.

<snipe>

“He’s an incredibly smart, cerebral man,†Lovejoy said. “We always have a plan. And with Mike, we have a backup plan, and then Plan C. And it always gives us the best chance to win. He’s a good coach. We believe in im.â€

 

[drpepper]

Two things I really liked about this article. I feel that because it's Lovejoy talking, people will tend to dismiss it. But this is nice to hear. Especially the fact that he'll change things up even if they're not working. We saw that with Kunitz last year where he was moved from Sid to Malkin's line early on when Malkin was having issues scoring. It was an attempt to balance out the scoring.


http://dkpittsburghsports.com/2015/10/06/penguins-2015-16-belief-in-johnston-grows/

How many times did the Pens play the Rangers last year? How many games did the Rangers play last year?

How does a professional coach not know about & prepare for the speed of the Rangers?

 

[The Old Master]

I think it says more about lovejoy that the coach....the only guy he ever came down hard on was himself.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

The problem with Bombulie's thesis is that Kunitz and Scuderi are already examples in agreement with that negative trend. It's a case by case basis, true, which sort of glosses over the fact that two cases he's studying absolutely fit the data.

It's also disingenuous to present the two sides of the argument as being equivalent. It's like the global warming or vaccination issues. On TV, they have one guy for, and one guy against. In reality, it's 99 for, one against. The anecdotes aren't strong enough to counter that data, and certainly not enough to help the specific players we're talking about.

That said, I also think it's unfair to dump on the article merely because it offers some respect to Kunitz and Scuderi.

I probably should let this die and someone may have already made this point, but Kunitz's stats do not fit the data. His two best point production seasons were his age 33 and age 34 seasons. His age 35 was his worst, so now we have the precipitous decline trend. But, his possession stats suggest that he could bounce back (cue lazy entitled "it's not about points" posts).