Salary Cap: Salary Cap 2015: Opinions are like Kunitz on the 1st line - Maybe you shouldn't

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Is this the same cap guru who last year ****ed our cap so hard we had to play a man down in late March/early April because we didn't have the space to even call up one of our AHLers???

It's the same cap guru who apparently told everyone that if they made certain moves they would wind up in dire cap straits and was ignored.

 

[IcedCapp]

Is this the same cap guru who last year ****ed our cap so hard we had to play a man down in late March/early April because we didn't have the space to even call up one of our AHLers???

The same cap guru who, according the multiple media sources, fought against all of the deadline deals because of the cap implications.

 

[Winger for Hire]

So what do you guys think about this Bombulie article?

 

[HandshakeLine]

If it's just a cap move like people are saying then I doubt he will even come to Pittsburgh.

I think he has to actually report to Pittsburgh, it can't just be on paper.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This is nothing, you should have seen this place in the weeks before the new arena deal was announced. Woof.

This is nothing, you should have seen this place <insert any random date>. Woof.

 

[Jacob]

I think he has to actually report to Pittsburgh, it can't just be on paper.

Yeah, which seems weird. I think Tangradi had to actually drive to Wheeling when he was sent there.

So Sundqvist has to pack his **** and drive to Pittsburgh, even though he might even be sent back before he gets here?

I don't know why that is and whose job it is to actually make sure that these guys are reporting to (or traveling to) their destinations and not just sitting around and making it a paper-only transaction.

 

[HandshakeLine]

This is nothing, you should have seen this place <insert any random date>. Woof.

Get your own material you thief!

"As I was saying, what's the deal with these airline peanuts?"

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Yeah, which seems weird. I think Tangradi had to actually drive to Wheeling when he was sent there.

So Sundqvist has to pack his **** and drive to Pittsburgh, even though he might even be sent back before he gets here?

I don't know why that is and whose job it is to actually make sure that these guys are reporting to (or traveling to) their destinations and not just sitting around and making it a paper-only transaction.

That's the rule but I'm not convinced it actually happens.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

It's not just me. A guy who works in the industry agrees, but what does he know.

Both sides of the argument eh?

"Stay in school kids. It's a proven fact that University graduates make more money than non graduates"

"But remember, Bill Gates dropped out high school though and has enough money to buy the Earth."

The study was based on a case by case basis.

Uh yeah exactly. On average college graduates make more than non graduates. Not graduating college doesn't mean you cant make a lot of money (Gates etc)

Each individual future salary is a case by case basis.

I don't know what about that is arguable. You seem unable to figure out that he wasn't conducting a study, or giving an opinion. He was merely asking a question, giving a point and counter point of the argument and left the answer open ended because its impossible to know for sure.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, which seems weird. I think Tangradi had to actually drive to Wheeling when he was sent there.

So Sundqvist has to pack his **** and drive to Pittsburgh, even though he might even be sent back before he gets here?

I don't know why that is and whose job it is to actually make sure that these guys are reporting to (or traveling to) their destinations and not just sitting around and making it a paper-only transaction.

It's probably to stop clubs from gaming the system by demoting a guy on paper to save cap space but letting them practice with the big squad until they're needed.

 

[tom_servo]

THAT IS THE POINT!

He is clearly giving BOTH SIDES of the argument.

Side 1 - Data shows a high majority of players decline at age___
Side 2 - However, there are examples of player that still play at a high level after that age (examples)

Conclusion - each player is a case by case basis.

Again not hard to understand. Maybe its just you.

P.S. Don't flatter yourself

The problem with Bombulie's thesis is that Kunitz and Scuderi are already examples in agreement with that negative trend. It's a case by case basis, true, which sort of glosses over the fact that two cases he's studying absolutely fit the data.

It's also disingenuous to present the two sides of the argument as being equivalent. It's like the global warming or vaccination issues. On TV, they have one guy for, and one guy against. In reality, it's 99 for, one against. The anecdotes aren't strong enough to counter that data, and certainly not enough to help the specific players we're talking about.

That said, I also think it's unfair to dump on the article merely because it offers some respect to Kunitz and Scuderi.

 

[HandshakeLine]

That's the rule but I'm not convinced it actually happens.

That's a fair point. Obviously I have no way of verifying that.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

I think he has to actually report to Pittsburgh, it can't just be on paper.

I wonder how that's actually verified. I mean, there can't be an NHL official sitting around in every city waiting for a player to stop by and check in, right?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I wonder how that's actually verified. I mean, there can't be an NHL official sitting around in every city waiting for a player to stop by and check in, right?

You know, that's a great question. This is one I wish one of our media people would ask instead of the perennial stupid things we hear about every week.

Also, now I can't stop thinking about how they verify that. Do the players have RFID chips? Do they need to give a secret handshake to a certain beer vendor? Do they fax a signature?

 

[billybudd]

I wonder how that's actually verified. I mean, there can't be an NHL official sitting around in every city waiting for a player to stop by and check in, right?

Probably the threat of a big ass fine if someone spots Maatta at the pirate game when the team says he's in west virginia. Or worse, a cap violation.

They don't actually have to track this stuff down, just make the penalty important enough that even a low chance of discovery is not worth risking.

 

[DegenX]

Are you sure that they have to report? Because Erixon was waived and still practicing with the team. And they've done the same with other players in the past ... waived them but never sent them down, I mean.

 

[Deutschland Dangler]

Are you sure that they have to report? Because Erixon was waived and still practicing with the team. And they've done the same with other players in the past ... waived them but never sent them down, I mean.

Yeah, I've read it several times that a player actually had to drive to the AHL city and stay for a day or something like that.
Waiving players is a different animal, though. You can waive players, like Erixon, and not send them down. Maatta was chosen to be sent down because he didn't have to be waived.

 

[Riptide]

Is this the same cap guru who last year ****ed our cap so hard we had to play a man down in late March/early April because we didn't have the space to even call up one of our AHLers???

The GM decided to make a trade and acquire Perron that used up the majority of what little cap space they had. And as they were already into LTIR space, had damn little of it to begin with. Then add in a rash of injuries that were so close to the playoffs that they couldn't put the players on LTIR, and yeah that's going to affect their ability to call up replacement players. But that's not on the cap guy, but on the GM and him not saving space for a rash of injuries.

 

[Riptide]

So what do you guys think about this Bombulie article?

Don't know. After glossing over 2 pages of people *****ing about it I can't be bothered.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The problem with Bombulie's thesis is that Kunitz and Scuderi are already examples in agreement with that negative trend. It's a case by case basis, true, which sort of glosses over the fact that two cases he's studying absolutely fit the data.

It's also disingenuous to present the two sides of the argument as being equivalent. It's like the global warming or vaccination issues. On TV, they have one guy for, and one guy against. In reality, it's 99 for, one against. The anecdotes aren't strong enough to counter that data, and certainly not enough to help the specific players we're talking about.

That said, I also think it's unfair to dump on the article merely because it offers some respect to Kunitz and Scuderi.

I think that's why he clearly label the examples as anecdotal. He isn't trying to make a conclusion or thesis. He's clearly stating that it is VERY likely for players over 32 or 34 (or whatever age) performance to slip. The other is just a counter point showing that it doesn't apply to everyone. Anyone coming away with other conclusions (applying to Kunitz etc) based on what he wrote either have the best pens colored glasses or are huffing paint.

 

[DegenX]

Yeah, I've read it several times that a player actually had to drive to the AHL city and stay for a day or something like that.
Waiving players is a different animal, though. You can waive players, like Erixon, and not send them down. Maatta was chosen to be sent down because he didn't have to be waived.

Ahhh ... thanks

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I'd rather play Sundqvist than Farnham, so if Dupuis and Fehr are headed to LTIR tomorrow I hope we keep Sunny.

Another big body with defensive awareness and positional versatility certainly cannot hurt. Send Erixon down if you need the extra cap space. Or waive Lovejoy (please!).

 

[cygnus47]

Ahhh ... thanks

He can even play something like 9 games over 3 weeks and still be sent down without going through waivers once he's cleared.

 

[IcedCapp]

The problem with Bombulie's thesis is that Kunitz and Scuderi are already examples in agreement with that negative trend. It's a case by case basis, true, which sort of glosses over the fact that two cases he's studying absolutely fit the data.

It's also disingenuous to present the two sides of the argument as being equivalent. It's like the global warming or vaccination issues. On TV, they have one guy for, and one guy against. In reality, it's 99 for, one against. The anecdotes aren't strong enough to counter that data, and certainly not enough to help the specific players we're talking about.

That said, I also think it's unfair to dump on the article merely because it offers some respect to Kunitz and Scuderi.

This entire post is spot on. Since I can't add to the brilliance of the first two paragraphs, I'll comment on the 3rd:

as one of Kunitz and Scuderi's biggest/loudest detractors (on this board), I have no problem giving them respect, as humans and as hockey players. While I can't speak for everyone, I will say a large part of my reaction to both is a compensation for the bending over to "respect them" that the Penguins, the coaches, and the media do. I simply find most of it to be incredibly insulting.

I think it will be easier to appreciate and respect them and their careers when they move on, especially Kunitz. I think we had our honeymoon with Scuderi and he and the team are doing everything in their power to ruin it.

 

[Riptide]

Are you sure that they have to report? Because Erixon was waived and still practicing with the team. And they've done the same with other players in the past ... waived them but never sent them down, I mean.

Waived isn't the same as being sent down. You have to clear waivers (if you qualify for them) before you can be sent down, but you don't have to be sent down if you clear waivers. Erixon was waived, which means the team can send him down if they so choose, however they haven't done so yet. Maatta wasn't waived (as he doesn't have to clear waivers) and was in fact sent to WBS.

The difference is that Erixon being waived gives the team more options as to what they want to do with him (they have 30 days or 10 games to make a decision), and waiving him now with a ton of other players on waivers means it's more likely he clears.

Edit... or what Dangler said.