Confirmed with Link: Ryan Reaves to NYR for a 3rd

[McRanger92]

No it's not wrong. Everything you said is fine and I generally agree. See my post a higher up the page.

It's just the deterrence thing is...not really a thing. That doesn't mean Reaves is not someone you want on your team. He's just not going to stop Tom Wilson. The only thing that will stop Tom Wilson is if the league finally steps up and bans him for something like a full season. And even then, who knows? Some guys just can't help themselves and Wilson seems like one of those guys who is unstable as it is.

Im less interested in deterrence and more interested in actually being able to respond when the situation calls for it. Also looking forward to watching a team that isnt the softest in the league for once.

 

[RGY]

FWIW I can easily see Wilson and Reaves going at it a couple times this year. I would be surprised if they didn’t. That said I don’t think Wilson will stop playing the way he does.

Reaves might not have as long a litany of dirty hits but he’s got no problem targeting the other teams best players….and right there he could draw Wilson into fighting him. There is no Chara, no Dillon for the Caps this year. Just Wilson, Hathaway and Mantha. If someone has to back it up for them it’s one of those three and Wilson is their toughest.

Basically as far as the Caps specifically we’re just signaling that we can get as deep into the gutter as they can. I don’t have a problem with that but I understand if some do.

But that right there is important. Having Wilson sit in the penalty box for 5 minutes is just as beneficial

 

[eco's bones]

But that right there is important. Having Wilson sit in the penalty box for 5 minutes is just as beneficial

He does hit a lot for the ice time he gets and he hits very hard. He can run people over. That actually is the most intimidating part of his game and not the dropping of the gloves so much.

Not sure he’s going to be an every game player so he’s kind of expensive for what he is but we’re not short of cap space for now so……

 

[Wtp99]

The thing is that the Rangers will be a tougher team to play against. Quite possibly forcing other teams to change their game plan, matchup planing etc. 1 cup in 81 years, hoping to make it 2 in 82 years. Still have my rose colored glass on

 

[egelband]

Oh boy howdy, the deterrence argument again

The deterrence argument is basically: ‘Deterrence is not a thing!!’ And no one saying anything about deterrence. And then another guy saying ‘deterrence isn’t real!!’
I have seen very few people, in any, really, imply that Ryan Reaves is going to greatly change tom Wilson’s behavior.

 

[chosen]

From the Athletic: Rangers ranked as having 27th best off-season.


27. New York Rangers
Wins Added: -3.6 wins
Salary Added: $1.1 million

In: Barclay Goodrow, Dryden Hunt, Sammy Blais, Patrik Nemeth, Ryan Reaves, Jarred Tinordi

Out: Pavel Buchnevich, Tony DeAngelo, Colin Blackwell, Philipp di Giuseppe, Brendan Smith, Brett Howden

No team had a more baffling offseason as the front office seems to have gone all-in on the tougher to play against mandate. The Rangers spent an extra $1.1 million to be nearly four wins worse. Not a single player brought in is a significant needle mover and that includes Barclay Goodrow who will look much worse when not playing next to Gourde and Coleman. Ryan Reaves, at this stage of his career, hurts much more than he helps while neither Sammy Blais nor Patrik Nemeth offers much value above replacement.

It’s a whole pile of nothing but toughness. It has a place, but the Rangers should prefer players who are actually good on top of being in tough, like Wilson, to solve their Wilson problem. They overpaid to curb a hyper-fixation on one player and arguably set the team back to do it.

The Rangers should still be in the playoff mix after this, they had a strong base to begin with, but they didn’t make things any easier for themselves trading away Pavel Buchnevich. That’s a legitimate top line forward traded for a low pick and someone who hits. Great work.

 

[nyr2k2]

From the Athletic: Rangers ranked as having 27th best off-season.


27. New York Rangers
Wins Added: -3.6 wins
Salary Added: $1.1 million

In: Barclay Goodrow, Dryden Hunt, Sammy Blais, Patrik Nemeth, Ryan Reaves, Jarred Tinordi

Out: Pavel Buchnevich, Tony DeAngelo, Colin Blackwell, Philipp di Giuseppe, Brendan Smith, Brett Howden

No team had a more baffling offseason as the front office seems to have gone all-in on the tougher to play against mandate. The Rangers spent an extra $1.1 million to be nearly four wins worse. Not a single player brought in is a significant needle mover and that includes Barclay Goodrow who will look much worse when not playing next to Gourde and Coleman. Ryan Reaves, at this stage of his career, hurts much more than he helps while neither Sammy Blais nor Patrik Nemeth offers much value above replacement.

It’s a whole pile of nothing but toughness. It has a place, but the Rangers should prefer players who are actually good on top of being in tough, like Wilson, to solve their Wilson problem. They overpaid to curb a hyper-fixation on one player and arguably set the team back to do it.

The Rangers should still be in the playoff mix after this, they had a strong base to begin with, but they didn’t make things any easier for themselves trading away Pavel Buchnevich. That’s a legitimate top line forward traded for a low pick and someone who hits. Great work.

For what it's worth, this is entirely based on Dom Lunchchicken's GSVA model. It's like determining who in baseball had the best off-season by calculating the projected WAR for the players they added and lost. I'm not making a case for or against it, just pointing out that's what it is. IIRC his model predicts Goodrow to have negative value as soon as 22-23 and doesn't like anyone else we brought in, either. His model is interesting but I don't like it when used alone.

Although the subjective analysis seems a bit questionable, as well, as Dom clearly subscribes to the "The Rangers only tried to fix their Tom Wilson problem" narrative" which I think is pure garbage.

 

[chosen]

For what it's worth, this is entirely based on Dom Lunchchicken's GSVA model. It's like determining who in baseball had the best off-season by calculating the projected WAR for the players they added and lost. I'm not making a case for or against it, just pointing out that's what it is. IIRC his model predicts Goodrow to have negative value as soon as 22-23 and doesn't like anyone else we brought in, either. His model is interesting but I don't like it when used alone.

Although the subjective analysis seems a bit questionable, as well, as Dom clearly subscribes to the "The Rangers only tried to fix their Tom Wilson problem" narrative" which I think is pure garbage.

I believe the Wilson incident played somewhat of a role in the Rangers off-season.

 

[nyr2k2]

I believe the Wilson incident played somewhat of a role in the Rangers off-season.

I do, too. It had to. But as I said in another thread, the Wilson thing could have never happened, or someone could have literally responded by killing Tom Wilson on the ice, and we'd still be in the same situation of looking to add tougher players (in terms of mentality and physicality) after being bullied and absolutely shut down by teams like the Islanders, Caps, and Bruins at various points down the stretch, and really throughout the year. The discussion of needing to make substantial roster adjustments began long before the Wilson incident (which was with, what, four or five games left when we were already basically done?) and likely would have occurred in some manner regardless of our owner getting pissed off and turning over the FO.

I have no problem with people being critical of the moves that we've made this off-season, but I don't think it's fair to characterize them as being made strictly as a response to a single incident right at the end--because we had been talking about getting tougher well before that.

 

[NYR Viper]

I believe the Wilson incident played somewhat of a role in the Rangers off-season.

Like most teams, they look at areas they were deficient in and try to address those concerns. I am sure the Wilson incident played a part but so did the lack of physical push against rivals towards the end of the season as well as the way they were handled by a Canes team over a year ago in the bubble.

 

[JohnC]

IIRC his model predicts Goodrow to have negative value as soon as 22-23

Is that really such an outrageous claim? A physical energy player on a long term contract that has never shown much in the way of production and is going to rapidly be on the wrong side of 30? Lord help us if he checks out at any point because he got paid.

 

[chosen]

Like most teams, they look at areas they were deficient in and try to address those concerns. I am sure the Wilson incident played a part but so did the lack of physical push against rivals towards the end of the season as well as the way they were handled by a Canes team over a year ago in the bubble.

True, but this was clearly an overreaction by an idiotic team owner.

 

[NYSPORTS]

True, but this was clearly an overreaction by an idiotic team owner.

Dolan is a off the charts yet imo JD could have done something to salvage this. What did he say? Did he repeat we might not be ready to win again? Pretty easy for a Dolan to ask “then why did you resign Kreider?” Stunned the team had nothing physical. Com’on, you have teenagers and a plethora of sub-22 players.

Even a Dolan can make a strong “what are we doing?” case and JD, imo, could have salvaged this. We’re going to get tougher, we have cap space, next year will be different. Something!! What happened? Crazy

 

[Raspewtin]

For what it's worth, this is entirely based on Dom Lunchchicken's GSVA model. It's like determining who in baseball had the best off-season by calculating the projected WAR for the players they added and lost. I'm not making a case for or against it, just pointing out that's what it is. IIRC his model predicts Goodrow to have negative value as soon as 22-23 and doesn't like anyone else we brought in, either. His model is interesting but I don't like it when used alone.

Although the subjective analysis seems a bit questionable, as well, as Dom clearly subscribes to the "The Rangers only tried to fix their Tom Wilson problem" narrative" which I think is pure garbage.

I absolutely don't understand how he has Nemeth as a negative GSVA player. He is consistently in the top 25th percentile of defensive metrics. I simply don't get it.

 

[nyr2k2]

Is that really such an outrageous claim? A physical energy player on a long term contract that has never shown much in the way of production and is going to rapidly be on the wrong side of 30? Lord help us if he checks out at any point because he got paid.

No, it's not outrageous at all. My thing is just, the model factors in the negative values it sees from guys like Tinordi. It affixes him a value of -1.64 wins added over his contract. Tinordi is a role player who could very easily not even play more than a handful of games. McKegg is worth -.5 wins; he's a 14th forward who may not even make the team. Dryden Hunt gets +.48 wins added and who knows how much he'll play in two season? It's an objective model that, IMO, is no given proper context by the author. Even Reaves, who is the second-largest negative drag on the team, is probably not going to be a guy who plays everyday this year or next.

Again, I like Dom's models. They're interesting. I like the most-similar players comps that show Goodrow following the path of a Beagle, Lehtera, or Beleskey. But, I think the contextual analysis is really lacking.

 

[nyr2k2]

I absolutely don't understand how he has Nemeth as a negative GSVA player. He is consistently in the top 25th percentile of defensive metrics. I simply don't get it.

Yeah, I mean, he essentially has him as being no different than Brendan Smith. I like Smith but I think Nemeth, from what I recall of him (and from what I see in his analytics), is clearly a superior player. So even within the model itself, which I do generally like, there are some head-scratchers.

 

[chosen]

Dolan is a off the charts yet imo JD could have done something to salvage this. What did he say? Did he repeat we might not be ready to win again? Pretty easy for a Dolan to ask “then why did you resign Kreider?” Stunned the team had nothing physical. Com’on, you have teenagers and a plethora of sub-22 players.

Even a Dolan can make a strong “what are we doing?” case and JD, imo, could have salvaged this. We’re going to get tougher, we have cap space, next year will be different. Something!! What happened? Crazy

I doubt there was ever such a conversation between Dolan and Davidson.

Davidson's not an idiot. He, along with every other fan of the sport knew the Rangers needed to get more physical and I have no doubt he would have done that if he were still in his position.

It's far more likely that Dolan imploded and fired everyone in one of his rages.

The team was on the trajectory most everyone had hoped for. Now, who knows?

 

[Raspewtin]

Yeah, I mean, he essentially has him as being no different than Brendan Smith. I like Smith but I think Nemeth, from what I recall of him (and from what I see in his analytics), is clearly a superior player. So even within the model itself, which I do generally like, there are some head-scratchers.

his model also hates Chytil and always has lol

but I find it extremely odd when Dom's model and other ones like JFresh's are just at complete odds with each other.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Dolan is a off the charts yet imo JD could have done something to salvage this. What did he say? Did he repeat we might not be ready to win again? Pretty easy for a Dolan to ask “then why did you resign Kreider?” Stunned the team had nothing physical. Com’on, you have teenagers and a plethora of sub-22 players.

Even a Dolan can make a strong “what are we doing?” case and JD, imo, could have salvaged this. We’re going to get tougher, we have cap space, next year will be different. Something!! What happened? Crazy

To Dolan, it’s just business asset protection. To us it’s a hockey team. JD and JG were correct stockpiling talent and advancing them. They were however caught out by not having the protection or support these assets needed. They went in uninsured. We had 80 mil asset bounced off the ice and no strategy either as a preventative or mitigation. I’d fire the lot of them as well.

 

[NYSPORTS]

To Dolan, it’s just business asset protection. To us it’s a hockey team. JD and JG were correct stockpiling talent and advancing them. They were however caught out by not having the protection or support these assets needed. They went in uninsured. We had 80 mil asset bounced off the ice and no strategy either as a preventative or mitigation. I’d fire the lot of them as well.

as i’ve stated and many have expressed, i’m stunned there was zero protection out there

 

[NYSPORTS]

I doubt there was ever such a conversation between Dolan and Davidson.

Davidson's not an idiot. He, along with every other fan of the sport knew the Rangers needed to get more physical and I have no doubt he would have done that if he were still in his position.

It's far more likely that Dolan imploded and fired everyone in one of his rages.

The team was on the trajectory most everyone had hoped for. Now, who knows?

well, i don’t think the trajectory has been derailed. The back two lines were reinforced is all that really happened. Buch is out due to the big cap picture while all the kids got older. None of these contracts are bad.

 

[Wtp99]

From my perspective I think we should give it a chance and see how this all plays out.
At least this team will be tougher to play against and not be run out of the building.

 

[Lion Hound]

Never really believed in Enforcers as “Deterants”. I don’t really think that exists. Rather, you do find the types of players that can goad an Enforcer into a penalty. A Sean Avery if you will. That to me is biggest negative of employing a true Enforcer. With that said…I think there is still a place in the game for these guys. They have to know their role. When to do it, when not to. Don’t get lured into the bad penalty. I do think teams are much better off when you have a guy like Ryan Reaves on the bench. He’s the knows the role. He is the guy. Like the best at it in the League right now.

The Tom Wilson incident would have never happened if Reaves was on the bench. Would Wilson still throw a questionable hits? Yes. Maybe an Elbow, Yes, Maybe a Knee, Yes. Board Someone, yes. Chokeslam the life out of your organization by the vicious attack he did on Panarin last year? Nope…that’s just not going to happen.

The biggest thing I think that a guy like Reaves brings to the table is that he makes others guys on the team that much bigger. Gallant understand that well. As a Sophomore for the Red Wings he played with Bob Probert and Joey Kocur. The greatest Enforcer tandem of all time. Im sure he appreciated having those guys with him. I think the new additions will have a positive impact on the young NYR roster. Kakko, LaFreniere, Miller, Kravtsov, Chytil, Barron. Lundqvist etc. Whats the average age here 21 years old? A lot of them played last year on a losing team. They were a team that wanted to be identified as a club that was “Fast, Physical, and Relentless”. They were fast. They were relentless only against the Sabres. The rest of the league…not so much, largely evidenced when they played against the physical clubs last year. They were what 6-2 vs the Isles last year? Against the B’s they were what 5-3?

Im looking forward to where these new guys are going to fit into the roster.
Reaves skated 37 games last season. 71 the season prior and 80 the season before that. Im thinking he skates in 45-50 contests this season.
Goodrow skated in 55 games last season. 70 the season prior and 82 the season before that. Im thinking he dresses every game barring injury.
Nemeth skated in 52 games last season. 64 the season before that and 74 the season before that. Im thinking he dresses for 70 games this season.
Blais skated in 36 games last season. 40 the Season prior, and 32 the season before that. I have no idea what the Rangers really plan to do with him? Maybe 50 games?
Hunt skated in 26 games last season. 21 the season prior, and 31 the season prior to that. Im thinking 10-15 games this season on a packed roster. Hes a wrecking ball player.
Tinordi skated in 14 games for the last season. 28 the season prior, and was in the AHL for three seasons prior to that. I think he starts in Hartford and is traded at the deadline to a team that needs “Tuffness”

The guys that are here already
Lindgren was tough to play against already. Hes got a regular spot and maybe will wear a letter.
Trouba was tough to play against already. He’s got a regular spot and maybe will wear a letter
I would love it if K’Andre developed a mean streak. He is an incredible athelete that if…”IF” he ever realizes he is one of the biggest and strongest guys on the ice he can be an absolute force.
Gauthier is big, and fast as hell but is he tough to play against? With his tools, he should be running people over and playing a relentless style. Something just isn’t there yet. Maybe Gallant, or Goodrow can help him there.

This team is going to be tough to play against!!!

 

[chosen]

well, i don’t think the trajectory has been derailed. The back two lines were reinforced is all that really happened. Buch is out due to the big cap picture while all the kids got older. None of these contracts are bad.

We all knew that Buch was the most likely to go.

However, we all assumed it would be in a deal for a top 6 center.

Now, the options appear to be to give up young talent for Eichel or I don't know what.

If Eichel is deemed healthy and the cost isn't too steep, that's fine.

 

[NYR Viper]

I still find it more likely that it was a confluence of events that led to that leadership group being let go.

Fast being let go and Hank being bought out to fit in ADA who was known to be a problem child. I'm sure there were deals on the table that Gorton didn't take from last off-season. The team showing little to no backbone on multiple nights in a shortened season. Etc