RW Joshua Ho-Sang - Windsor Spitfires, OHL (2014, 28th overall, NY Islanders)

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UsernameWasTaken

Let's Go Hawks!
Feb 11, 2012
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You mean the 'selfishness' that he shows when he didn't pass the puck and get 53 assists? Or his ego that he has when he celebrates a goal that he worked hard to help his team get? How he's sloth-like when passing nearly everyone on the ice? That horrible mix of wrist, snap, slap, and backhand shots that gave him a measly 32 goal season? How about the horrible defense where he only had a +26??

You're right, he has a lot of serious flaws in his game. He can do TOO MUCH. WHAT A TRAVESTY.

No but on a more serious note, yes he isn't perfect, but remember that he was projected for top 5 in this draft (at least that what I've been reading, I couldn't find it anywhere) and dropped. Unless there is some serious flaw I couldn't find in all my reading on scouting reports and what not, he's really got a pretty fantastic game.

Have you watched him?

He's bad away from the puck, is prone to making horrible turnovers (including those that come from hanging on to the puck way too long), and displays questionable decision making at times.

I like him and think he's a better prospect than his draft position. However, there are problems with his game.

Also, he hasn't been projected as a top 5 draft pick anytime recently. Maybe as lofty talk when he was in minor midget...but not the last while. Even at the beginning of the season, he wasn't in Bob McKenzie's top 15 rankings and was in the late 20s of the ISS ranking.
 

OVOXO*

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Every year we have these "fallers" that have insane skill (but have serious issues like attitude, no toolbox) and the team that drafts them thinks they have the steal of the draft but they all end up fizzling out and proving that they were not a steal, but a bust. (Schroeder, Shremp hype come to mind).
 

Haute Couturier

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I don't know what is going on with him, but I'd have to think there is more to the story than he's an interesting character in a boring league.

There has to be a reason why Hockey Canada has avoided him and teams had him on their do not draft list. Considering he lasted to 28 there's a good chance that the Islanders were the only team willing to use a first round pick on him. That's not a knock on them, by the way.

There's just too much of a strong reaction in the hockey community to write it off as those old stiffs can't stand someone with a personality.

Even the general manager of the Spits has more or less implied that he is skilled, but doesn't get the most of out of skill. That's probably a part of the problem. There are plenty of cocky players out there, but he may be cocky enough to think he does not have to improve his game.

I don't know, but I do hope he succeeds.
 

Rehabguy

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I don't know what is going on with him, but I'd have to think there is more to the story than he's an interesting character in a boring league.

There has to be a reason why Hockey Canada has avoided him and teams had him on their do not draft list. Considering he lasted to 28 there's a good chance that the Islanders were the only team willing to use a first round pick on him. That's not a knock on them, by the way.

There's just too much of a strong reaction in the hockey community to write it off as those old stiffs can't stand someone with a personality.

Even the general manager of the Spits has more or less implied that he is skilled, but doesn't get the most of out of skill. That's probably a part of the problem. There are plenty of cocky players out there, but he may be cocky enough to think he does not have to improve his game.

I don't know, but I do hope he succeeds.

I don't think there is anything going with him. He was simply the victim of a snowballing media frenzy partly of his own doing. I think the biggest reason he wasn't chosen higher in the draft was that few teams were in the position as the Islanders were who have a very very deep prospect pool and had the assets to trade up back into the first round. Most teams wouldn't take a chance of screwing up a first round pick if there was any chance of there being a serious question mark- including the Islanders who chose a safer pick with their #5. I think it was a safe bet that he would have gone top 5 in the second round with the bottom teams looking for this type of elite skill. From what I have read, most scouts labeled him as the most skilled North American prospect in the entire draft. Snow figuring this to be the case, correctly and aggressively took him via trade in the first round. On skill alone, Ho-Sang could have gone top 5- maybe top 3. If the personality turns out to be a non-issue (which I bet it absolutely won't as I'm sure he GOT THE MESSAGE.), then Snow stole a lottery pick with two late second rounders. Excellent draft day for Snow, he basically stole the show with 2 top 5 picks in round 1 in my opinion, one of who is being compared to a so-called generational talent in McDavid. A few media reports are even implying that he may be even more skilled and "electrifying" than McDavid playing on a weaker team, with weaker line mates. What's not to like about that?
 
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islesforlife

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Dec 13, 2013
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Have you watched him?

He's bad away from the puck, is prone to making horrible turnovers (including those that come from hanging on to the puck way too long), and displays questionable decision making at times.

I like him and think he's a better prospect than his draft position. However, there are problems with his game.

Also, he hasn't been projected as a top 5 draft pick anytime recently. Maybe as lofty talk when he was in minor midget...but not the last while. Even at the beginning of the season, he wasn't in Bob McKenzie's top 15 rankings and was in the late 20s of the ISS ranking.

I've seen a bit of his play, not a ton. Believe me I don't think he's a god amoung man. He does have some "all about me" issues, From what I can see, he loves to drive the net, something that plays well with his speed, but it understandably will lead to turnovers. I haven't seen enough to judge how bad he is away from the puck. Though, I do have to admit that I have heard complaints about his hockey IQ. But to say serious flaws? I don't know if I can call those serious flaws. They are issues but I see the all being fixable, the hardest of which will be changing his possession play.

And again with the draft place, that was just what I heard, so I can't say that you're wrong, because you're not. Like I said, I hadn't seen anything about it, but I thought I'd include what I'd heard.
 

Pnut

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I don't know what is going on with him, but I'd have to think there is more to the story than he's an interesting character in a boring league.

There has to be a reason why Hockey Canada has avoided him and teams had him on their do not draft list. Considering he lasted to 28 there's a good chance that the Islanders were the only team willing to use a first round pick on him. That's not a knock on them, by the way.

There's just too much of a strong reaction in the hockey community to write it off as those old stiffs can't stand someone with a personality.

Even the general manager of the Spits has more or less implied that he is skilled, but doesn't get the most of out of skill. That's probably a part of the problem. There are plenty of cocky players out there, but he may be cocky enough to think he does not have to improve his game.

I don't know, but I do hope he succeeds.

Maybe it is that he is a character in a hockey world that likes cookie cutter good boys that dont rock the boat? Nah....that would just make logical sense to most people. ;)

Ho Sang said right after being drafted that he would do/change anything the Isles asked him to do. How does your idea that:
he may be cocky enough to think he does not have to improve his game.
have any merit?
Even whats his face on TSN said is it that he is selfish or alienating teammates?
What? Where is the proof? Why is it always presented as hearsay like these people don't have the guts to say that they think the kid will fail?

There has to be a reason why Hockey Canada has avoided him
If there is then what is it??
What is the reason, and if there is one why is no one saying anything?

All I hear is he is a selfish player, but everyone (except a guy on here) that have watched him play, say he isn't so much.
Even for all of us that havent seen him play there are just as many YT videos of him assisting on plays as there is of his one man only plays.
 

seafoam

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He game still has holes, I knew that before the draft, and I hope every Islanders fan realizes that after the draft. It's not just his personality that made him fall, he still has to fix some things if he wants to reach his potential.
 

Rehabguy

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This is what Hockey News had to say about Ho-Sang and McDavid when they were line mates in 2012. Now realize, Ho-Sang was later traded to Windsor a year later and turned his defensive deficits of a (+/-) -23 to +26. That's a 40+ point improvement in ONE YEAR on a weaker team and improved his assists as well- making him a more complete player in 2013.

In fact, there’s an excellent chance McDavid and teammate Josh Ho-Sang will go 1-2 in the draft. Ho-Sang is a dynamic player who has the ability to lift fans out of their seats and, if not for the presence of McDavid, would be a heavy favorite to go No. 1. McDavid has the edge as a prospect for a couple of reasons. First, he’s a more complete player. Second, if he’s granted exceptional player status for next season, the team drafting him would have him for three years until his NHL draft year and Ho-Sang only two.


Hockey News 2012
 

Rehabguy

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Here's an interesting read on Ho-Sang from the Huffington Post.

The Unwritten Rules of Professional Locker Rooms
Posted: 06/26/2014 1:22 pm

Professional teams' locker rooms are all about hierarchy, conventions and respect must be earned. "Team chemistry" is often coded language for "the ability to walk in lock steps with everyone else." If you're a black Jewish kid with an Asian last name on the verge of a professional hockey career, you'd be wise to learn a thing or two about these unwritten rules.

Joshua Ho-Sang exudes the type of confidence that verges on arrogance. In a lengthy interview with the Toronto Sun ahead of this weekend's National Hockey League entry draft, Ho-Sang said: "If I was a general manager and had first pick in the draft, I'd pick me No. 1 ... In three years, I'll be the best player in this draft. And I have no doubt about that. I know myself. I know the other players. I believe in my ability. There are guys ranked ahead of me who are nowhere near me." Modesty isn't his strong suit.

Ho-Sang finished 18th in scoring last season in the Ontario Hockey League despite playing for the Windsor Spitfires, an average team. He finished ten spots behind Max Domi who's a year older and who played for the star-studded London Knights. Domi was selected 12th overall by the Phoenix Coyotes in the 2013 NHL entry draft. Ho-Sang could realistically expect a similar ranking. However, 12 out of 30 NHL teams chose NOT to interview him at the recent NHL combine. Despite Ho-Sang's electrifying talent, Hockey Canada didn't invite him to try out for the national junior team either. These snubs speak volumes about the general consensus about Ho-Sang. This is a case where perception becomes reality.

For whatever reason, minorities who display confidence in public have a tendency to rub the rest of society the wrong way. As a young, black orphan playing high caliber hockey and baseball in Shawinigan, my mouth often got me in trouble. I had no parents to sing my praises in public, so I blew my own horn as loud as I possibly could. In the process, I became known as a blowhard. Depending on where you stand across the ethnic divide, bragging can be interpreted as a source of motivation by some or as a form of rebellion by others.

The sports world is filled with examples. From former heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali calling himself "the greatest of all time" to the Williams sisters' loud tennis outfits and prickly father. After Venus won the 2000 Wimbledon title, Richard Williams shouted "Straight Outta Compton!" (a pop culture reference to a song by N.W.A based on the family's roots in Los Angeles) and jumped over the NBC broadcasting booth, catching Chris Evert by surprise and performing a triumphant dance. Evert said she "thought the roof was coming down".

The most recent example is Richard Sherman, an NFL all-star cornerback with the Seattle Seahawks, the reigning Superbowl champions. His exuberant post-game interview with Erin Andrews following the NFC Championship game sparked a heated debate on social media with strong racial overtones. Sherman, who had just made a game-clinching pass deflection while covering 49ers receiver Michael Crabtree, had harsh words for his divisional rival. "Well, I'm the best corner in the game. When you try me with a sorry receiver like Crabtree, that's the result you're gonna get. Don't you ever talk about me," Sherman told a startled Andrews. Some pundits branded Sherman, who graduated at the top of his class at Stanford, a "thug" for his fired-up comment. He's now on Sports Illustrated's list of most disliked people in sports.

In my opinion, bombastic statements are generally a defence mechanism by those who feel put upon by their community. However, as minorities we rarely control society's prevailing narrative. Therefor our comments are often misinterpreted. Professional sports is big business and players who attract controversy tend to scare away sponsors. If NHL teams aren't so keen on Joshua Ho-Sang, he only has himself to blame because he's unprepared for the media onslaught coming his way. The moment an NHL team selects him (he's too talented to be ignored), he will enter a world where his comments and actions, good or bad, will be overanalyzed by pundits, magnified by cameras and amplified on social media.

As Ho-Sang matures, he will have to refrain from giving reporters juicy quotes such as "people watch my games and are very critical. When I start dangling, my GM calls me a Harlem Globetrotter. Why am I a Harlem Globetrotter? Analogies get related to basketball all the time with me. I don't play basketball. I've never played basketball. I'm a hockey player. Why are they doing that?" Ho-Sang doesn't need to burden himself with these questions. He just needs to surround himself with media-savvy advisors, ditch the hot-dog number, bite his tongue, flash a smile and let his immense talent do the talking. It worked wonders for a guy named Barack Obama.
 

OttawaRoughRiderFan*

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Can't believe how much attention this kid is getting. He's like the Kim Kardashian of the NHL Draft.
 

Paxon

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This is what Hockey News had to say about Ho-Sang and McDavid when they were line mates in 2012. Now realize, Ho-Sang was later traded to Windsor a year later and turned his defensive deficits of a (+/-) -23 to +26. That's a 40+ point improvement in ONE YEAR on a weaker team and improved his assists as well- making him a more complete player in 2013.

In fact, there’s an excellent chance McDavid and teammate Josh Ho-Sang will go 1-2 in the draft. Ho-Sang is a dynamic player who has the ability to lift fans out of their seats and, if not for the presence of McDavid, would be a heavy favorite to go No. 1. McDavid has the edge as a prospect for a couple of reasons. First, he’s a more complete player. Second, if he’s granted exceptional player status for next season, the team drafting him would have him for three years until his NHL draft year and Ho-Sang only two.


Hockey News 2012

He wasn't traded, this was written when Ho-Sang and McDavid were linemates in midgets. They were talking about them going 1-2 in the OHL draft. Everything changes once kids get to the CHL; the improvement in competition is enormous. Kids realize they can't get away with playing the way they did in midgets. McDavid took right to it as a kid one year younger while Ho-Sang has struggled to adjust his game. He had done little to make the necessary adjustments until halfway through this season. Ho-Sang is currently pretty bad in his own zone right now. +/- says nothing about whether or not that is the case.

He's a good prospect but the criticisms about his game people make are legitimate. Tossing some statistics into the argument doesn't change that. The criticisms of his personality are another story, and seem mostly overboard to me.
 

seafoam

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He wasn't traded, this was written when Ho-Sang and McDavid were linemates in midgets. They were talking about them going 1-2 in the OHL draft. Everything changes once kids get to the CHL; the improvement in competition is enormous. Kids realize they can't get away with playing the way they did in midgets. McDavid took right to it as a kid one year younger while Ho-Sang has struggled to adjust his game. He had done little to make the necessary adjustments until halfway through this season. Ho-Sang is currently pretty bad in his own zone right now. +/- says nothing about whether or not that is the case.

He's a good prospect but the criticisms about his game people make are legitimate. Tossing some statistics into the argument doesn't change that. The criticisms of his personality are another story, and seem mostly overboard to me.

I don't think anyone is denying that besides rehabguy and maybe a few uninformed Isles fans.
 

Rehabguy

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He wasn't traded, this was written when Ho-Sang and McDavid were linemates in midgets. They were talking about them going 1-2 in the OHL draft. Everything changes once kids get to the CHL; the improvement in competition is enormous. Kids realize they can't get away with playing the way they did in midgets. McDavid took right to it as a kid one year younger while Ho-Sang has struggled to adjust his game. He had done little to make the necessary adjustments until halfway through this season. Ho-Sang is currently pretty bad in his own zone right now. +/- says nothing about whether or not that is the case.

He's a good prospect but the criticisms about his game people make are legitimate. Tossing some statistics into the argument doesn't change that. The criticisms of his personality are another story, and seem mostly overboard to me.

True, statistics do not say much about a player, neither do a few highlights, I'm sure there is criticism of his game- just as there were about John Tavares. I misread that about he OHL draft- my error. You do realize that everyone drafted in the 2014 draft have weaknesses in their game. I can live with that. I'm just looking at raw talent at this point. The rest can be coached into his game- not a problem at all.
 

Rehabguy

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I don't think anyone is denying that besides rehabguy and maybe a few uninformed Isles fans.

Funny, I haven't spoken once about his game this entire thread other than making a comparison in style of play to Maxim Afinogenov. Could have sworn I was only discussing his attitude. No one has ever denied that he has weaknesses in his game, or as with all the draftees of this 2014 draft have weaknesses in their games. That's a given- we expect that.

"Uninformed Isles fans?" Really???

Don't start a verbal war with Islander fans when there's none to be had.
 

Isles Junkie

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Jul 4, 2008
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He game still has holes, I knew that before the draft, and I hope every Islanders fan realizes that after the draft. It's not just his personality that made him fall, he still has to fix some things if he wants to reach his potential.

the list of 17-18 year old hockey players who don't have holes in their game is very very small.
 

Paxon

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True, statistics do not say much about a player, neither do a few highlights, I'm sure there is criticism of his game- just as there were about John Tavares. I misread that about he OHL draft- my error. You do realize that everyone drafted in the 2014 draft have weaknesses in their game. I can live with that. I'm just looking at raw talent at this point. The rest can be coached into his game- not a problem at all.

Keep in mind that I've defended Ho-Sang from a lot of what's been said about him in this thread over the past few weeks, and think it was a good pick for the Isles. It's just that for every unfounded or exaggerated criticism for him there is a legitimate one. It's entirely possible that he's simply taking longer for the light bulb to go on at the junior level than some other players take. If he can build on what he did post-trade deadline this season then he'll be on his way to good things.

As to all the other kids in the draft also having weaknesses, I agree, but it's more noticeable with Ho-Sang because of his talent level. People look at him and see a player who should be more effective offensively, and he could be, if he continues adjusting his game. For him his holes are the difference between maybe being an All-Star level player and not being an NHLer.
 

Rehabguy

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Keep in mind that I've defended Ho-Sang from a lot of what's been said about him in this thread over the past few weeks, and think it was a good pick for the Isles. It's just that for every unfounded or exaggerated criticism for him there is a legitimate one. It's entirely possible that he's simply taking longer for the light bulb to go on at the junior level than some other players take. If he can build on what he did post-trade deadline this season then he'll be on his way to good things.

As to all the other kids in the draft also having weaknesses, I agree, but it's more noticeable with Ho-Sang because of his talent level. People look at him and see a player who should be more effective offensively, and he could be, if he continues adjusting his game. For him his holes are the difference between maybe being an All-Star level player and not being an NHLer.

True. We have to remember that all these draftees are just prospects. Quite a few of them will never see the NHL. I've often said in life, people like to put others up on a pedestal only to find every reason to knock 'em off it. The closer you are to the spot light, the more people want to rip you apart. Comes with the territory. The Tavareses, Ho-Sangs, McDavids, Crosby's etc... just have to accept that. I'm no different a fan. I didn't like Crosby's whiny attitude when he was younger. He seems to have really come around and I respect him for it now. I guess I could understand how fans of other teams may grow to dislike a hotshot young player with a motor mouth. So long as he curtails his outspokenness a bit and plays the game without fear, he has every opportunity to excel with the big boys.
 

SI90

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the Islanders have a Tight young mature core whom all have grown together...

Lead by High Character Captain Tavares, everyone falls in line and fallows suit...Ho-Sang will be the same...

The Isles young core/Building Blocks are filled with high character guys and Leaders.

Tavares Strome de Hann Lee Cizikas Reinhart and Pulock were all captains of thier Junior teams(Notre Dame for Lee).

Throw in guys like Hamonic Okposo Nelson and Martin, you have a great room for young players to be part of.






By the time Ho-Sang is 21-22 and able to make the Islanders he will have a great supporting cast. Tavares will still be young and in his prime(27-28) leading the Isles...

not to mention another High Character kid and Close Ho-Sang friend in Dal Colle
 

scott99

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He game still has holes, I knew that before the draft, and I hope every Islanders fan realizes that after the draft. It's not just his personality that made him fall, he still has to fix some things if he wants to reach his potential.

EVERY prospect has holes. Dal Colle can't skate like Ho-Sang, and isn't physical enough, but I still love tha pick.
 
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