Russia U20 National Team - WJC-2019

[Caser]

Do you think Alexander Romanov will have a spot on the roster at the wcjr ?

I won't bet my money on it at all (unless you're talking about the 2020 WJC, of course).

 

[Caser]

Camp roster for the 4 Nations in Sweden:

GK
Ivan Prosvetov
Daniil Tarasov
Kirill Ustimenko

D
Veniamin Baranov
Yevgeniy Kalabushkin
Oleg Kholodenin
Alexander Lyakhov
Ilya Morozov
Semyon Perelyayev
Mark Rubinchik
Akim Trishin
Ivan Vasin
Artyom Volkov

FW
Yegor Filin
Artyom Galimov
Yevgeniy Kanitskiy
Vitaliy Kravtsov
Kirill Marchenko
Ivan Muranov
Artyom Nikolayev
Daniil Ogirchuk
Bulat Shafigullin
Nikita Shashkov
Pavel Shen
Stepan Starkov
Yevgeniy Tsaryuk
Vladislav Tsitsyura
Alexander Yaremchuk


More or less everyone is there except the Loko guys, as they are busy at the JCWC already.
Upd.: Ivan Morozov is absent though, which is strange, as he was playing at the Sochi Hockey Open. Additionally Galenyuk and Bitsadze are also not there, but I can see that they are not playing in the preseason games, so probably they are not healthy enough. Shmakov is also not invited, but it is understandable, as coaches need to look at Prosvetov.

Prosvetov, Perelyayev, Kholodenin, Ogirchuk and Tsaryuk are the last cuts.

 

[Caser]

So, couple of thoughts after the 4 Nations:

• Looks like finally it is clear who will center Kravtsov, as there was some chemistry with Shen. On the negative side, Shen just can't win a faceoff. Search for the LW is still ongoing, I'd like to see Morozov tried there — he is right-handed, got a two-way component in his game and is competent at center in case if Shen is not looking good enough there.

• Speaking about the negatives: Shafigullin got scratched for the game two after getting too much penalties in the first game. Marchenko got scratched for the last game, as reportedly his game is still too raw.

• Both goalies are still fine and it isn't clear who will be the starter, so, remembering that there is still Zhukov, it's a good problem to have. Still it is a problem, as it's better to have a clear starter.

• Meanwhile Rybakov-Anokhovskiy-Kovalenko line is tearing up the JCWC (not like it's a big deal, but still). iirc, they tried this line in Sochi first, but Rybakov was quickly replaced by Chekhovich. Personally I hope they will try Maksimov at LW there — a right-handed sniper could bring a special touch to the creativity of Loko guys.

• From what we currently have, I think centers for the top 9 are likely set: Lipanov, Shen and Anokhovskiy. So my vision of the Top9 currently would be something like:

Morozov-Shen-Kravtsov
Chekhovich-Lipanov-Kostin
Maksimov-Anokhovskiy-Kovalenko​

Quite a competition for remaining spots: Yaremchuk, Filin, Muranov, Tsitsyura, Koltygin, Toropchenko... basically everyone actually.
​

Obviously the CAN/RUS Series will change everything though.

 

[Fantomas]

Morozov-Shen-Kravtsov

Barf.

 

[Caser]

Barf.

Yeah, I kind of understand the skepticism about using young Morozov on a top line, but I'm not sure if other options are much better for this particular case: Kostin can play at LW there, but he likes to have the puck, which might mean incompatibility with Kravtsov; hard to imagine Chekhovich there too - this line would sound a bit too lightweight to me. Maksimov is an option, but is he much better than Morozov? At scoring maybe, but doesn't Morozov's two-way game compensate that?

 

[Fantomas]

Yeah, I kind of understand the skepticism about using young Morozov on a top line, but I'm not sure if other options are much better for this particular case: Kostin can play at LW there, but he likes to have the puck, which might mean incompatibility with Kravtsov; hard to imagine Chekhovich there too - this line would sound a bit too lightweight to me. Maksimov is an option, but is he much better than Morozov? At scoring maybe, but doesn't Morozov's two-way game compensate that?

I like Morozov. It's the idea of Shen at the top-line center that bothers me.

Not sure why we're not developing centers right now.

 

[Caser]

I like Morozov. It's the idea of Shen at the top-line center that bothers me.

Not sure why we're not developing centers right now.

I'm not sure that with Bragin's concept there is such a thing as a top line, and here it's more like we are talking about "Kravtsov's line" and the main goal of that line is, obviously, to make sure Kravtsov is generating those goals. And, except for face-offs, Shen has done that part pretty good.

About center development, currently I have a theory that some kind of historical reasons might be to blame - I mean, how many elite centers were developed in Soviet Union before Fedorov?

 

[MaxV]

I think it’s not just a theory imo.

Historically, in Russian hockey school the position of center is more like a soccer midfielder. It’s a more defensive position then in NA game.

 

[Caser]

I think it’s not just a theory imo.

Historically, in Russian hockey school the position of center is more like a soccer midfielder. It’s a more defensive position then in NA game.

But then the question is what was eventually done right, as at the end of the Soviet times we have Fedorov, Zhamnov and Yashin in just 4 years of difference.

Btw, more or less the same question can be asked about puckmoving Ds.

 

[Atas2000]

I'm not sure that with Bragin's concept there is such a thing as a top line, and here it's more like we are talking about "Kravtsov's line" and the main goal of that line is, obviously, to make sure Kravtsov is generating those goals. And, except for face-offs, Shen has done that part pretty good.

About center development, currently I have a theory that some kind of historical reasons might be to blame - I mean, how many elite centers were developed in Soviet Union before Fedorov?

Wait what? Larionov is not elite now? As well as the ones before him. Soviet hockey did develop all postions. Maybe a bit weaker on D, but forwards and in particular centers were never such a rarity as they are today.

 

[Atas2000]

But then the question is what was eventually done right, as at the end of the Soviet times we have Fedorov, Zhamnov and Yashin in just 4 years of difference.

Btw, more or less the same question can be asked about puckmoving Ds.

We actually never had trouble with puck moving D's until nowadays that is.

So something is obviously isn't done right now. The schools are not working on certain skills and aren't developing kids early into those roles.

 

[Atas2000]

Not sure why we're not developing centers right now.

Lack of kids coaches with the basic competence for developing all kinds of players and teaching a systemic game early with roles distribution by position.

 

[Caser]

Wait what? Larionov is not elite now? As well as the ones before him. Soviet hockey did develop all postions. Maybe a bit weaker on D, but forwards and in particular centers were never such a rarity as they are today.

It depends on definition of elite. Best Soviet centers were Petrov, Starshinov, Larionov, Bykov; Best Soviet wingers were Kharlamov, Makarov, Krutov, Firsov, Yakushev, Mikhailov - for me all of those wingers are elite level talents, from centers - maybe Petrov. No disrespect to Larionov, he was a smart playmaker with tremendous vision, but I'm talking about dominance here.

We actually never had trouble with puck moving D's until nowadays that is.

So something is obviously isn't done right now. The schools are not working on certain skills and aren't developing kids early into those roles.

I meant that at the end of Soviet times we had Malakhov, Zubov, Ozolinsh, Gonchar, Tverdovsky, Boris Mironov as alumnis of Soviet hockey schools, but before that, aside from Fetisov and Kasatonov, were there so much of talanted puckmovers?

 

[Yakushev72]

It depends on definition of elite. Best Soviet centers were Petrov, Starshinov, Larionov, Bykov; Best Soviet wingers were Kharlamov, Makarov, Krutov, Firsov, Yakushev, Mikhailov - for me all of those wingers are elite level talents, from centers - maybe Petrov. No disrespect to Larionov, he was a smart playmaker with tremendous vision, but I'm talking about dominance here.



I meant that at the end of Soviet times we had Malakhov, Zubov, Ozolinsh, Gonchar, Tverdovsky, Boris Mironov as alumnis of Soviet hockey schools, but before that, aside from Fetisov and Kasatonov, were there so much of talanted puckmovers?

In Soviet times, there was great focus on putting the best forwards on the first line, and the best defensemen as the first pair. This was for purposes of plugging into the national team. There seemed to be little consideration given to balancing the distribution of talent on to different lines or defensive pairs to make the club team more effective. So for CSKA in the early 1970's, Petrov-Mikhailov-Kharlamov was the first line, and could be plugged in intact on the NT. At the same time, Kuzkin and Lutchenko were the first defensive pair for CSKA and the NT. The advantage was for the benefit of the NT and not the club team. Thus, for example, in the late 1970's, there was the Gorky line of Kovin-Skvortsov-Varnakov that could work together and develop chemistry with Torpedo for the ultimate purpose of using that chemistry on the NT.

 

[Atas2000]

It depends on definition of elite. Best Soviet centers were Petrov, Starshinov, Larionov, Bykov; Best Soviet wingers were Kharlamov, Makarov, Krutov, Firsov, Yakushev, Mikhailov - for me all of those wingers are elite level talents, from centers - maybe Petrov. No disrespect to Larionov, he was a smart playmaker with tremendous vision, but I'm talking about dominance here.



I meant that at the end of Soviet times we had Malakhov, Zubov, Ozolinsh, Gonchar, Tverdovsky, Boris Mironov as alumnis of Soviet hockey schools, but before that, aside from Fetisov and Kasatonov, were there so much of talanted puckmovers?

This is underrating at it's best. Top soviet centers were elite by all means. Dominant. They were driving those units with elite wingers too. I don't like Larionov as a person. Not a bit. But as a hockey player he was the brain of that KLM greatness. I have to give him that.

With D-men it's a different story. We were on the verge of a true golden age in hockey when the criminals destroyed everything. Maybe because we started to develop great defencemen too. That spree of great D-men at the end of the soviet era was amazing, but also unique. Now we are back to the two most useless questions. Who's to blame and what to do. Just cleansing the scholls system would go a long way.

 

[Joufreau]

any chance Semyon Der-Arguchintsev gets a look for the WJC this year? No idea what Russia's center depth is like. Appreciate any input!

 

[Caser]

any chance Semyon Der-Arguchintsev gets a look for the WJC this year? No idea what Russia's center depth is like. Appreciate any input!

Center depth doesn't look too bad this year: as I've mentioned in some earlier post at this moment Top9 center candidates are Lipanov, Shen and Anokhovskiy and for the 4th center position there is still quite some competition with guys like Koltygin, Morozov and Tsitsyura. So yeah, SDA has to be extraordinary good to make it this year.

 

[MaxV]

Hopefully, Ivanov develops into something.

19-летний форвард «Локомотива» Иванов выиграл 14 вбрасываний из 16 с «Сибирью»

That’s not a bad skill to have.

 

[Caser]

Hopefully, Ivanov develops into something.

19-летний форвард «Локомотива» Иванов выиграл 14 вбрасываний из 16 с «Сибирью»

That’s not a bad skill to have.

Definitely, but unfortunately he is a bit old for this thread.

 

[MaxV]

He is still 19.

 

[Caser]

He is still 19.

Yeah, but not like it matters in terms of the WJC. But again, it's not like there is a huge shortage of centers this year.

 

[Fantomas]

Khovanov has picked up his play recently, although he remains horrendous on faceoffs. Lipanov has been awful.

 

[Caser]

Extended roster before the CAN/RUS Series

GK
Pyotr Kochetkov
Ivan Prosvetov
Daniil Tarasov
Kirill Ustimenko

D
Alexander Alexeyev
Veniamin Baranov
Danila Galenyuk
Yevgeniy Kalabushkin
Alexander Lyakhov
Saveliy Olshanskiy
Mark Pavlikov
Alexander Romanov
Mark Rubinchik
Dmitriy Samorukov
Artyom Volkov
Daniil Zhuravlyov

FW
Nikita Anokhovskiy
Ivan Chekhovich
Artyom Galimov
Yevgeniy Kanitskiy
Alexander Khovanov
Pavel Koltygin
Alexei Lipanov
Kirill Maksimov
Kirill Marchenko
Maxim Marushev
Ivan Morozov
Ivan Muranov
Artyom Nikolayev
Bulat Shafigullin
Nikita Shashkov
Pavel Shen
Kirill Slepets
Stepan Starkov
Alexei Toropchenko
Vladislav Tsitsyura
Alexander Yaremchuk
Dmitriy Zavgorodniy

6 Russian based players are still to be cut from there in a week; also just a reminder that there will be a 4 Nations tournament around that time, so some players will be there too.

 

[cska78]

Can Bragin finish 3rd with this bunch of inglorious b...ds?

 

[Caser]

I'm actually a bit surprised by picking Prosvetov over Zhukov and also not having Filin there, but not like it's a big deal anyway.