Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | '22-23 Training Camp Edition

[Drivesaitl]

I wish I was less stupid so I could understand more advanced stats stuff. At least I’m kindhearted.

If anything you're too bright to buy the advanced stats.

 

[Fourier]

I'm thinking the rental price of a player like Patty Kane would be in the realm of three 1st round picks when you factor in the retention. The list of players that would realistically be available for that type of trade return would be fairly substantial.

The cost of retention should be minimal. At the deadline teams routinely retain to move an asset. Chicago pretty much knows they will be retaining 50% which will only be a hair over $500K. In the case of Kane, the salary is so low that for a third team to take him on you are looking at about $275K.

The cost in assets will to a degree be up to Kane. If his list of teams he will accept a trade to is very small...2-3 teams then it may be less than one might expect.

All that said, this is a long shot.

 

[Broberg Speed]

This. Is Kane an insane player? Yes. Do we already have a top 5 forward group in the NHL without Kane? Absolutely. Patrick Kane will likely earn north of 8 million on his next contract despite his age and there's just no possible way for us to afford that. The minimum 2 1st round pick value price tag can be easily used to land a prime age top 4 dman with term on their contract. Gimme a Chychrun for 3 years over a Pat Kane for one year all day every day.

Why repeat this?
It's not true.
We have the best top two center combination in the league.
McDavid and Draisaitl.
It's a steep decline after that.
Kane>RNH>Hyman>Puljujarvi>Yamamoto
Holloway is unproven.

I refuse to include RNH as a third-line center because he is not a third-line center on a team that is expected to win a cup. He's a second-line winger and a special teams specialist. On a contending team Hyman is a third line winger.

 

[NoDust33]

Why repeat this?
It's not true.
We have the best top two center combination in the league.
McDavid and Draisaitl.
It's a steep decline after that.
Kane>RNH>Hyman>Puljujarvi>Yamamoto
Holloway is unproven.

I refuse to include RNH as a third-line center because he is not a third-line center on a team that is expected to win a cup. He's a second-line winger and a special teams specialist. On a contending team Hyman is a third line winger.

How do you figure a player with 27 goals and 54 points is a third line winger on a contender?

From 21-22 top 6 wingers on contenders:

Tampa:
Killorn 25 goals 59 points
Palat 18 goals 49 points

Avs:
Burakovsky 22 goals 61 points

Canes:
Neidereitter 24 goals 40 points
Jarvis/necas 40 points

Rangers:
Copp 21 goals 53 points

 

[McTedi]

Why repeat this?
It's not true.
We have the best top two center combination in the league.
McDavid and Draisaitl.
It's a steep decline after that.
Kane>RNH>Hyman>Puljujarvi>Yamamoto
Holloway is unproven.

I refuse to include RNH as a third-line center because he is not a third-line center on a team that is expected to win a cup. He's a second-line winger and a special teams specialist. On a contending team Hyman is a third line winger.

Did you not watch any of the games last year? Hyman is a pretty good top six winger on any team. 27G 54P in 76 regular season games, 11G 16P in 16 playoff games. I don't necessary disagree that we don't need Patrick Kane but our top six overall produced at a pretty good pace. And when you add PKanes production in the mix typically it is at the expense of someone else ie. Nuge moves off PP and doesn't get close to 60P. There is also a plus side to Chychrun, he is signed to a very nice contract. Really I like our team without either so maybe you keep your powder dry until something better comes up.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Did you not watch any of the games last year? Hyman is a pretty good top six winger on any team. 27G 54P in 76 regular season games, 11G 16P in 16 playoff games. I don't necessary disagree that we don't need Patrick Kane but our top six overall produced at a pretty good pace. And when you add PKanes production in the mix typically it is at the expense of someone else ie. Nuge moves off PP and doesn't get close to 60P. There is also a plus side to Chychrun, he is signed to a very nice contract. Really I like our team without either so maybe you keep your powder dry until something better comes up.

Chychrun or Anderson are the two worst moves the Edmonton Oilers could make. Of the two, considering where the ask currently stands, Chychrun is worse.

 

[McTedi]

Chychrun or Anderson are the two worst moves the Edmonton Oilers could make. Of the two, considering where the ask currently stands, Chychrun is worse.

Trading multiple assets for a rental is far worse IMO. And as far as what the Oilers need, defence wins championships. I wish Chychrun was a little more durable but the kid can play.

 

[Mr Sakich]

I can be both but it depends on the topic. Advanced stuff? I'm the kind-hearted idiot.

Effect pedals and their alignment on a pedal board? You wouldn't want to have that discussion with me.

I use a Pod GO, may upgrade to a Helix

 

[94 Oil Drops]

Why do you guys want Toews? He sucks now and we don't need more forwards. We really need defensemen. That should be our primary focus!

 

[CookiesAndMilk]

I use a Pod GO, may upgrade to a Helix

You monster!

Use that money and build an awesome pedalboard instead.

PS: I get the reason of using a Pod but still...how could you.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Why do you guys want Toews? He sucks now and we don't need more forwards. We really need defensemen. That should be our primary focus!

We don't have a third-line center, not a good one that will take us all the way to the Stanley Cup. That's a difficult and grueling position during the playoffs if you expect to play on a competitive team that is expected to be a contender.

Draisaitl was overworked and played on one leg last year in the playoffs but there was no one who could fill those minutes for the Edmonton Oilers. How he preformed how he did in the playoffs is a testament to his elite abilities. If we had a third-line center we wouldn't have been swept by the Avalanche. And I know Draisaitl played a lot of wing but positionally he played a lot of center as well.

A particular skill set is necessary. Precise defensive positioning, quick pivot checking and sacrificing the body aka big and sturdy.

Trading multiple assets for a rental is far worse IMO. And as far as what the Oilers need, defence wins championships. I wish Chychrun was a little more durable but the kid can play.

With Chychrun the damage is probably already done, I can't fathom how a professional hockey player could handle any more surgical procedures than he has amassed.

 

[iCanada]

I prefer sustainable glory.

Three shots at a Cup with Hall > One shot with Kane.

I'd rather be the LAK than the SJS. How many cups did sustainable glory get the sharks?

 

[Mr Sakich]

You monster!

Use that money and build an awesome pedalboard instead.

PS: I get the reason of using a Pod but still...how could you.

I play at a couple of churches. I normally get the set list 3-6 days in advance. That isn't enough time to do custom tones. I usually just buy the tones from the original artist or something as close as possible

 

[Anarchism]

eWhy do you guys want Toews? He sucks now and we don't need more forwards. We really need defensemen. That should be our primary focus!

Agreed but don't want Chick....want McCabe at the deadline.
this presupposes that Bouchard takes another step and replaces some more of Barrie's offense making Barrie somewhat expendable--this may not happen. Hopefully one of Broberg/Nemo takes another step as well.
Problem is Soup probably hurt after first third of season as per usual and skinner still has some things to learn--hopefully Campbell not out 2 long.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Agreed but don't want Chick....want McCabe at the deadline.

As long as McCabe's back is ok by then. I think I would rather chase down Soucy then.

 

[CookiesAndMilk]

I play at a couple of churches. I normally get the set list 3-6 days in advance. That isn't enough time to do custom tones. I usually just buy the tones from the original artist or something as close as possible

Yeah I see. In that case, it makes most sense to get an amp sim of some sort and the Line6 stuff is great at that.

In general the digital stuff they put out nowadays is amazing. There is almost no difference in tone and I for sure can't tell the difference if you show me recordings of digital amps or real ones. Some people claim they can but you need a damn good ear to hear which one is which.

 

[CupofOil]

I don't get how Toews could possibly add more than Kane. Kane is still an elite player. Toews is not.

I think the rationale is that the bottom 6 needs more of a boost than the top 6 but the flaw in that is, one, is Toews even any good anymore even in a 3rd line role and adding Kane allows the Oilers to drop a top 6 player down to the 3rd line and, thus, strengthen the 3rd line.
For instance, you can have that highly effective Hyman-RNH combo in the bottom 6 and still have a stacked top 6 with Kane especially if Holloway pans out.

Kane-McDavid-Kane (I'd kill to see a double Kane flanking McDavid)
Holloway-Draisaitl-Puljujarvi
Hyman-RNH-Yamamoto
Foegele-McLeod-Ryan

That is just a ridiculous forward group.
I hate the idea of rentals generally but if Kane just costs 1st+non-top prospect, I'm pulling the trigger just for the entertainment alone.

 

[McBooya42]

As long as McCabe's back is ok by then. I think I would rather chase down Soucy then.

I'd like Soucy, and he was majorly being talked up the last time we played Seattle by Bob.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Did you not watch any of the games last year? Hyman is a pretty good top six winger on any team. 27G 54P in 76 regular season games, 11G 16P in 16 playoff games. I don't necessary disagree that we don't need Patrick Kane but our top six overall produced at a pretty good pace. And when you add PKanes production in the mix typically it is at the expense of someone else ie. Nuge moves off PP and doesn't get close to 60P. There is also a plus side to Chychrun, he is signed to a very nice contract. Really I like our team without either so maybe you keep your powder dry until something better comes up.

Broberg Speed hates Hyman, but there’s a reason his initials are BS.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I'd like Soucy, and he was majorly being talked up the last time we played Seattle by Bob.

I just like the player. Skates pretty well, good size, and seems to have all the tools to be a regular top-4 defenseman, imo. I think he makes an excellent fit for this team, because Kulak might help keep any Soucy extension cheaper.

 

[Fourier]

I think the rationale is that the bottom 6 needs more of a boost than the top 6 but the flaw in that is, one, is Toews even any good anymore even in a 3rd line role and adding Kane allows the Oilers to drop a top 6 player down to the 3rd line and, thus, strengthen the 3rd line.
For instance, you can have that highly effective Hyman-RNH combo in the bottom 6 and still have a stacked top 6 with Kane especially if Holloway pans out.

Kane-McDavid-Kane (I'd kill to see a double Kane flanking McDavid)
Holloway-Draisaitl-Puljujarvi
Hyman-RNH-Yamamoto
Foegele-McLeod-Ryan

That is just a ridiculous forward group.
I hate the idea of rentals generally but if Kane just costs 1st+non-top prospect, I'm pulling the trigger just for the entertainment alone.

I understand the suggested rationale as stated above. But like you I see this as completely flawed. If you take it to the extreme the same argument could be used to say that adding a prime Craig MacTavish to the Oilers would be better than adding a prime Gretzky which is clearly ridiculous. . TJ Compher was the third line center for the cup winning team last year. There is no way that adding Compher would give you a better chance to win than adding Kane.

This is really about the relative abilities of the two players. At this stage Kane is simply in a different league than Toews.

I've been watching hockey for nearly 60 years and over that time people have continually suggested that there is a "formula" to win. The problem being that formula has changed many times as a new champion sets the standard. In that time what has almost always been true though is that teams win when they have the best depth of high-end talent.

 

[McBooya42]

I just like the player. Skates pretty well, good size, and seems to have all the tools to be a regular top-4 defenseman, imo. I think he makes an excellent fit for this team, because Kulak might help keep any Soucy extension cheaper.

Agreed for sure. He'd solidify the D in a massive way I think (pun intended).

 

[belair]

I'd rather be the LAK than the SJS. How many cups did sustainable glory get the sharks?

I don't know what this means. Edmonton's roster looks nothing like either of them. LA added Carter, Richards and Gaborik who all stayed with them for multiple seasons beyond their Cup runs.

Chicago added Marian Hossa, who was a key component to several of their championships. Tampa added McDonagh and JT Miller at the deadline early in their Cup cycle. They traded Miller, but they used those assets and parlayed them into guys like Goodrow, Coleman and now Hagel and Nick Paul, who they kept for more than the one year.

If you can get good players, try and keep them.

 

[CupofOil]

I understand the suggested rationale as stated above. But like you I see this as completely flawed. If you take it to the extreme the same argument could be used to say that adding a prime Craig MacTavish to the Oilers would be better than adding a prime Gretzky which is clearly ridiculous. . TJ Compher was the third line center for the cup winning team last year. There is no way that adding Compher would give you a better chance to win than adding Kane.

This is really about the relative abilities of the two players. At this stage Kane is simply in a different league than Toews.

I've been watching hockey for nearly 60 years and over that time people have continually suggested that there is a "formula" to win. The problem being that formula has changed many times as a new champion sets the standard. In that time what has almost always been true though is that teams win when they have the best depth of high-end talent.

The only argument in favor of Toews is potential acquisition cost but I think even Toews nets a 1st+ on name recognition alone and the ever present, double retention. Just not sure if that's worth it for a rental player who could very well be cooked.

With Kane, you know you're getting an impact player. I'm not sure I'd pay the price that it might take but if this season is truly about "all in" then you pay the extra for Kane as opposed to risking it for a player who might not even be much of an upgrade on what they have on the 3rd line right now.

In any event, it's an extreme longshot. Kane seems destined to be a Ranger or Carolina as a darkhorse and that's ok. Maybe the Oilers should focus on a cheaper add like Soucy for a 2nd or somebody like that to solidify the D.

 

[FlameChampion]

Problem with Toews is, even with 75% retention - the guy is going to cost more than people want to pay. Based on name alone and playoff pedigree - someone is going to pay for him (if he wants to move).

P.Kane would be sick on the RW for this team. I do worry about the cost though. Double retention and then hes also a very good player obviously. Unless P.Kane is going to demand that he gets traded to one team, and kill Chicagos competition among bidders, hes probably going to be expensive. Not sure he would come here anyway. Probably will want to play for an american team.