Speculation: Rumors and Proposals Thread II | Gryba on a PTO & Contract Discussions with Russell

[lakai17]

Pouliot and Sekera are needed on this team today. Decent vets for this team today.

 

[guymez]

Pouliot and Sekera are needed on this team today. Decent vets for this team today.

I agree.

This site gets a little too goofy about prospects. So much so that now that this team has an appropriate level of veteran leadership they suggest trading players like Sekera and Pouliot.

Embrace the veterans...allow some of the kids like Puljujarvi and Nurse to get their feet wet in the AHL. Thats what good teams do...they have enough experienced players that it forces the young players to develop properly. The exact opposite of what this team has been doing the past 10 years.

You want to consistently lose...trade veteran players and play rookies. You would think that more posters would realize this especially if they are Oiler fans.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

The Islanders added two top 4 d-men and it cost them one decent prospect and a handful of picks. That was 2 summers ago.

This summer Florida added two top 4 d-men, it cost their organization a 4th/6th round pick and less than 11 million in cap space.

There's two in the past 3 off-seasons.

It's not that we don't have have the assets to get it done. It's that we don't have the GM to get it done. At least he's demonstrated so far he isn't capable. Hopefully that changes before the season starts.

So would it have been better for us to sign Demers to a $5 million AAV deal and STILL not have the 2nd pairing offensive RHD that can be a high end PP guy? You don't just trade or sign for ****'s and giggles. Also last I checked he's added a pair of top 4D. Sekera and Larsson. He had no Hamonic or Ekblad already in the fold so he has the tough task of adding 3 top 4D and the last 1 needs to have a very specific skill set.

*cough* Milan Lucic *cough*

So much concern about paying good defensemen money from all of you. Where's was that concern when Lucic got his 7 year deal?

I'm all for paying to get the right player to round out our defense, I am not all for getting stuck with Demers at $5 million AAV when we already have Fayne eating damn near $4 million AAV. If the Larsson trade wasn't there then maybe we gamble on Demers, it was so Demers at his cap hit was not the right move to make.

 

[snipes]

I agree.

This site gets a little too goofy about prospects. So much so that now that this team has an appropriate level of veteran leadership they suggest trading players like Sekera and Pouliot.

Embrace the veterans...allow some of the kids like Puljujarvi and Nurse to get their feet wet in the AHL. Thats what good teams do...they have enough experienced players that it forces the young players to develop properly. The exact opposite of what this team has been doing the past 10 years.

You want to consistently lose...trade veteran players and play rookies. You would think that more posters would realize this especially if they are Oiler fans.

100% this.

 

[soothsayer]

I agree.

This site gets a little too goofy about prospects. So much so that now that this team has an appropriate level of veteran leadership they suggest trading players like Sekera and Pouliot.

Embrace the veterans...allow some of the kids like Puljujarvi and Nurse to get their feet wet in the AHL. Thats what good teams do...they have enough experienced players that it forces the young players to develop properly. The exact opposite of what this team has been doing the past 10 years.

You want to consistently lose...trade veteran players and play rookies. You would think that more posters would realize this especially if they are Oiler fans.

Good teams pick the best players available. This "development for the sake of development" mentality is flat out nonsense. How people can say that a player should be "developing"--whatever that the hell that means in this context--without having seen the player is absurd. Ask me for a definition of dogmatic and i'll show you some of the posts on this board.

 

[Klimando Kostani]

Good teams pick the best players available. This "development for the sake of development" mentality is flat out nonsense. How people can say that a player should be "developing"--whatever that the hell that means in this context--without having seen the player is absurd. Ask me for a definition of dogmatic and i'll show you some of the posts on this board.

Would you believe that the mindset of a player who after training camp was sent down to the AHL for a little while and later called up could be more motivated and valuable to the team than the player who was immediately placed on the team?

I'm not saying don't play the best players, there is a chance that Nurse and Pulju won't be our best options and there respective positions out of camp or that there are qualy good options. In that case would it hurt to send them down for a few weeks with assignments? Imagine their drive to train while down there, and the drive they would have once called up.

 

[soothsayer]

Would you believe that the mindset of a player who after training camp was sent down to the AHL for a little while and later called up could be more motivated and valuable to the team than the player who was immediately placed on the team?

I'm not saying don't play the best players, there is a chance that Nurse and Pulju won't be our best options and there respective positions out of camp or that there are qualy good options. In that case would it hurt to send them down for a few weeks with assignments? Imagine their drive to train while down there, and the drive they would have once called up.

You've described a hypothetical scenario. It could motivate a player. Could. You send a player down to the minors in cases like the ones we're discussing if all things are equal, which requires an assessment of the player here and now. If, say, Nurse comes to camp and is neck and neck with Fayne, then you have the discussion about whether or not you send him down. But to say that a player should be sent down, before making an informed judgement, because he needs to develop--again, whatever that is supposed to mean-- is just nonesense.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Good teams pick the best players available. This "development for the sake of development" mentality is flat out nonsense. How people can say that a player should be "developing"--whatever that the hell that means in this context--without having seen the player is absurd. Ask me for a definition of dogmatic and i'll show you some of the posts on this board.

What? No they don't. Detroit let their rookies sit in the minors for years, despite how good they were. Not every player on the big club was better than Datysuk, Zettyberg, etc.

Seguin started on a 4th liner in Bos. You really think he wasn't better than some of their bottom 6?

There's a big difference between skill and learning how to play the right way and then incorporating your skill.

Pretty much the perfect scenario would be Hall and Seguin.

So development for the sake of development is smart, not doing so, you get the EDM Oilers, which have been absurd for years

 

[soothsayer]

What? No they don't. Detroit let their rookies sit in the minors for years, despite how good they were. Not every player on the big club was better than Datysuk, Zettyberg, etc.

Seguin started on a 4th liner in Bos. You really think he wasn't better than some of their bottom 6?

There's a big difference between skill and learning how to play the right way and then incorporating your skill.

Pretty much the perfect scenario would be Hall and Seguin.

So development for the sake of development is smart, not doing so, you get the EDM Oilers, which have been absurd for years

No GM thinks that development is good because development, which is what the argument amounts to--a circular, question begging logic. When Detroit has prospects who are better than their current options, they bring them up. (See Tatar, Mrazek, Dekeyser, so on.) What's more, Detroit has historically drafted low, in positions where nhl-ready, or close to ready, prospects aren't common. They've been forced to develop their prospects because they've been too consistently to good pick nhl-ready prospects.

Anyways, the point remains, saying that a player should be in the minors without having seen him play in his NHL context is absurd. It's David Staples logic at best.

 

[McPuritania]

I had a horrible dream. I dreamt that we traded McDavid to the Leafs for Matthews.

*Shudder*

 

[Distinct]

The oilers need to take the best available players on this roster. They are in a win-now mode. With McDavid still on ELC, this org needs to prove that they will surround him with the best team possible.

 

[joestevens29]

Interesting MTL might be looking at moving Beaulieu for a top 6 LW. Not sure Pouilot is a PC guy. Wonder if it's something PC has looked at in the past.

Also Lindback to NJ on PTO

 

[joestevens29]

The oilers need to take the best available players on this roster. They are in a win-now mode. With McDavid still on ELC, this org needs to prove that they will surround him with the best team possible.

I wouldn't be to concerned about this. They did this last year, so I don't see it changing this year. About all that could happen is they could give a waiver eligible player a bit of a longer look and then waive them after like Fayne was last season.

 

[CupofOil]

The Islanders added two top 4 d-men and it cost them one decent prospect and a handful of picks. That was 2 summers ago.

This summer Florida added two top 4 d-men, it cost their organization a 4th/6th round pick and less than 11 million in cap space.

There's two in the past 3 off-seasons.

It's not that we don't have have the assets to get it done. It's that we don't have the GM to get it done. At least he's demonstrated so far he isn't capable. Hopefully that changes before the season starts.

The Islanders added two pending UFA's. The Panthers also lost three top 4 Dmen.

Were hoping for RNH for Dumba or a vast overpay for pending UFA Shattenkirk who by all accounts wants to sign out east? There didn't seem to be much else out there that was realistic. Barrie and Vatanen got re-signed, Demers wasn't a fit after the Larsson trade. Subban was never realistically attainable for the Oilers since they didn't have a Weber to offer up. Who else?

I would like to have seen them sign Wiznewski to a PTO or even a 1 year deal but it takes two to tango, maybe he didn't want to sign here? It's tough to add good Dmen and even moreso with the expansion draft coming up.

It is a big hole in the roster though, no denying that. I think we'll see Klefbom get some extended PP minutes. He certainly has the shot and good offensive instincts so we'll see.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Interesting MTL might be looking at moving Beaulieu for a top 6 LW. Not sure Pouilot is a PC guy. Wonder if it's something PC has looked at in the past.

Also Lindback to NJ on PTO

I think the Penalties and lack of discipline at times drives the current braintrust mad.

 

[Paralyzer]

Those worried Horcoff was gonna accept a PTO here can relax. He has officially retired. Great leader and good community guy

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Those worried Horcoff was gonna accept a PTO here can relax. He has officially retired. Great leader and good community guy

Good for him.

 

[PinSeeker]

Interesting MTL might be looking at moving Beaulieu for a top 6 LW. Not sure Pouilot is a PC guy. Wonder if it's something PC has looked at in the past.

Also Lindback to NJ on PTO

Saw that and immediately thought of the Oil, I know he was highly thought of a year or so ago, but his numbers don't give me the warm and fuzzies. What's his m.o.?

 

[bobbythebrain]

Saw that and immediately thought of the Oil, I know he was highly thought of a year or so ago, but his numbers don't give me the warm and fuzzies. What's his m.o.?

LHD, not a point producer or pp guy. Can't see him being a target

 

[Homesick]

Pouliot and Sekera are needed on this team today. Decent vets for this team today.

Agreed. This will be Team NA's downfall that they just don't have the experience and leadership. Sure, they look amazing on paper but they will fail

 

[s7ark]

Interesting MTL might be looking at moving Beaulieu for a top 6 LW. Not sure Pouilot is a PC guy. Wonder if it's something PC has looked at in the past.

Also Lindback to NJ on PTO

Not really a surprise. I am sure lots of teams would be willing to trade a bottom pairing prospect with some potential for top 6 help. Likewise, many teams would be willing to trade a bottom 6 player with potential for a top 4 D.

No team is looking to trade top6/4 players for bottom 6/pairing players.

 

[Homesick]

Those worried Horcoff was gonna accept a PTO here can relax. He has officially retired. Great leader and good community guy

Is Renney his only connection to the Red Wings?

 

[belair]

Is Renney his only connection to the Red Wings?

Isn't he from Detroit?

 

[Namtsua]

Isn't he from Detroit?

Horcoff's from Trail, BC

 

[Young Lions*]

Isn't he from Detroit?

Horcoff's from Trail, BC

He went to Michigan State though and his wife's from there IIRC.