ATD: Rules - Discussion - Trades Thread

[LT]

Almost took LT with my pick

I'm flattered but I suck at football

 

[Voight]

I'm flattered but I suck at football

I totally missed that connection.

Whats the highest you would've picked him for the lolz?

 

[LT]

I totally missed that connection.

Whats the highest you would've picked him for the lolz?

3rd or 4th

There's at least one other LT who might get drafted.

 

[Michael Farkas]

In weighing career value, is it fair to value AFL or AAFC contributions or is this designed to be NFL only?

In my previous research, the AFL was particularly instrumental in modernizing the passing game of pro football. Having watched some AFL games, it was a different game, but I'm not convinced that it's markedly worse than the NFL in terms of quality for a good portion of the AFL's run. As opposed to, say, the WHA vs the NHL (a subject I know much better in a sport that I know much better) where I find the WHA to be a glorified minor league and not a serious competitor to the NHL in terms of quality of play. Yes, they had some stars at the top. But they had nothing underneath. The AFL felt like it was more well rounded than that.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Also, I assume - as is the rule in the hockey ATD and with any lists that we create - there is absolutely no projecting of talent here. So, if you have Patrick Mahomes, you have a five-season player. Which should put you at a marked disadvantage in terms of either longevity or impact or whatever as compared to a player that started and was impactful for 12, 15, 18, 20 years...

If projection is introduced, you're just compounding computations needed in what is already a weird simulation.

It's worth discussing early on here what kind of "penalty" should be in the voter's minds about shortened careers (intentionally or via injury). Maybe @VanIslander or @tony d would be interested in opining on their experience with this in the hockey ATD...

 

[GKJ]

In weighing career value, is it fair to value AFL or AAFC contributions or is this designed to be NFL only?

In my previous research, the AFL was particularly instrumental in modernizing the passing game of pro football. Having watched some AFL games, it was a different game, but I'm not convinced that it's markedly worse than the NFL in terms of quality for a good portion of the AFL's run. As opposed to, say, the WHA vs the NHL (a subject I know much better in a sport that I know much better) where I find the WHA to be a glorified minor league and not a serious competitor to the NHL in terms of quality of play. Yes, they had some stars at the top. But they had nothing underneath. The AFL felt like it was more well rounded than that.

You could draft out of any league you want. The AAFC and AFL, having been absorbed into the NFL, with their records and history are recognized by the NFL. That isn’t the case for any other league though. The AAFC’s legacy was legitimized by the Browns and 49ers staying power, it’s just that the league was weak overall, so there’s not much to pull from.

 

[Tony Romo]

Also for the Mahomes debate, I don’t really think you need projection. Dude has 2 Super Bowl MVPs, 2 MVPs, 5 straight title games and 3 Super Bowl appearances. Put that all together there’s like 3 or 4 QBs who have better accolades, with none probably being more talented

 

[Michael Farkas]

Man, this is going to be some interesting debates down the line haha

Mahomes super resume (which it is), there's a list of four items there...two of which are team-focused, and the other one is basically being the first star of a single game...none of which hold too much value for me, especially versus the field. I think championships have value, certainly...but football fans are just so unbelievably reductive when it comes to judging players. Hell, even the NFL hardly recognizes half of its own championships, it's so caught up in Super Bowl mania...

I do have a data dump "metric" of sorts for all QBs going back to 1933...Mahomes, after just five seasons, has already crept into the HOF window...which is incredible. He makes Brady's first five years look like a pile of barf (industry term)...and having seen them both at the beginning of their respective careers, the on-field talent shown between the two is almost polar opposites their first five years too...

 

[Tony Romo]

@tony d i hate you

 

[tony d]

@tony d i hate you

Was surprised he was still available

 

[VanIslander]

The BEST of their ERA as respected in history still today.

Jim Brown was a great pick.

He is the Muhammad Ali of boxers, in some eyes.

Dig back farther, to the 1950s and before, and few sports honor as much (without discount) those greats (baseball being the clear exception).

In hockey terms: the great Soviets from 1972 onward are recognized as all-time great; those before are discounted, (the decade before a bit, decades before a lot).

Eddie Shore and Howie Morenz of pre-WWII NHL hockey are clearly top-25 ALL TIME hockey players!! But pre-NHLers? Newsy Lalonde and Cyclone Taylor, in a fragmented age without a clear single great league? They're still top 50, but not much more.


Psst... i'm hiding this here to cut and paste later...

 

[GKJ]

I think if I hadn’t taken Rice, my pick would’ve been Reggie White

 

[Tony Romo]

I was praying Moss would've fallen to me. Wanted Moss/Sanders the entire time

 

[Tony Romo]

I had one other option I was seriously thinking about going with. That I’ll share when the two players got taken. But thought two were a bit of a reach.

 

[TMLegend]

I think if I hadn’t taken Rice, my pick would’ve been Reggie White

I almost took White at #6 as well. But thought it was a little early and wasn't the best value pick available.

 

[VanIslander]

I grew up on Marino & Montana and the only significant difference was team accomplishment. They deserve the same breath (round).

 

[VanIslander]

C'mon guys, if we are building a FULL TEAM,... shouldn't it be honored by a team name?

There are so many good high school and college and pro teams worthy of representing.

We are giving a nod to HISTORY here, aren't we?

Every single hockey ATD on HfBoards for 20 years had every participant with a team name. Let's!

 

[LT]

Any interest in using this? Don't wanna bother with it if not. NBD either way for me.

 

[GKJ]

Walter Payton was probably my #3 non-QB. Definitely top 6 or 7 overall.

 

[Tony Romo]

my next pick is so far. Good lord.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Walter Payton was probably my #3 non-QB. Definitely top 6 or 7 overall.

Yeah, I was stunned to see him still here. Looking through old newspapers, there are a number of claims that he's the best player in NFL history. Given the sorry state of Bears QB play during his entire career, there's a lot to like about this player. I'm going to build an ATD profile for him.

Payton at RB3 (16th overall) and Manning at QB4 (6th overall) I think are borderline bizarre undervaluing situations here in the early going.

 

[TMLegend]

Aaron Donald was a great pick. He was on my shortlist for my 2nd round pick @VanIslander

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yup, we discussed him too...with kind of a "man, someone is gonna notice how dominant this guy has been...", just wasn't quite ready yet...but it's a very fine pick in the right defense...

 

[GKJ]

Don Hutson is a great historical selection, plus he’s a 2-way guy. When we used to do this years ago, he was a 1st round pick. A player way ahead of his time.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, I want to see what the deep dive looks like on him...