seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Having submitted data that clearly indicated that Clint Benedict lacked consistency some of his backers are now trying to use humour to get themselves out of an interesting dilemma.
Most of the humour is coming from you.
Try showing us 10-14 game portions from the careers of Patrick Roy and Jacques Plante and Terry Sawchuk. Do you think they all let in the same number of goals every 10 games? Ridiculous.
So far it has been shown that at age 22 Clint Benedict despite being surrounded by a team with a significant number of HHOFers had the worst Stanley Cup final 8.66 GAA average that any regular NHA/PCHA/WCHL/NHL ever had in a series. On the other hand 22 year old or younger goalies - Terry Sawchuk, Patrick Roy led their teams with incredible Stanley Cup performances. Even a 23 year old - Harry Lumley led his team to a victory over the reigning Stanley Cup dynasty champion Maple leafs in 1950, despite a near fatal injury to Gordie Howe, followed by a Stanley Cup victory over the Rangers. Yet at 22 or 23 Benedict did not have such a pedigree.
Good for them that they did. But you are expecting Benedict to have a Stanley Cup on his resume by age 22 or he doesn't get your respect? That's just silly. I'm not surprised.
Nor did he have it at age 37. The new forward pass(1929-30) rules caused Clint Bnendict problems, he could not adapt. By the time he was injured it was rather clear that he was struggling. Other goalies, Hainsworth, Connell, Worters, Thompson adapted and continued. There is a trend to write-off 37 year old goalies as to old but the reader should remember that the following led their teams to Stanley Cup victories when they were 37, Georges Vezina ( contemporary of Benedict), Turk Broda, Johnny Bower, Terry Sawchuk, while another contemporary of Benedict's - Hap Holmes did it at age 36. Holmes BTW also won four Stanley Cups.
Wow, so many goalies in history have done it, hey?
Same as above. Good for them, but that doesn't put them above Benedict. Isolating what they did before age 22 or after age 37 doesn't show you the whole picture. Why would you want to pinpoint the start or end of a career before a player was at his best? Why, to support an agenda, of course!
With the exception of Sawchuk, Benedict's range of career accomplishments easily trumps any of the above. But oh, let's focus on them winning a Stanley Cup at age 37!
The flop or cheat and we'll let everyone do it. Until 1918 NHL goalies had to remain upright while stopping the puck. If they flopped , fell to make the save it was a penalty. Clint Benedict was used to flopping or falling to make a save. Rather simple theory. A penalty could alway be killed but a goal could not be recovered.
Simple question for the reader. If you are that good do you have to cheat? Benedict"s backers paint this as style.
Priceless.
The league had a choice. Penalize Clint Benedict or making flopping legal. The league choose to make flopping legal in 1918 before the start of the 1918-1919 season. Ultimate irony Clint Benedict flopped in the NHL finals - 5.2 GAA average.
Actually, the change was made January 9th, 1918, only a few games into the 1917-1918 season. Sorry that it doesn't fit your supposed ironic little storybook.
Now previously Benedict backers have been exposed as cup counters - quick to point out when their favourite is shortchanged, so we are doing this based on their criteria.
Who exposed who as a what now?
HHOF teammates. For a good part of Clint Benedict's NHL career team rosters consisted of 10 players including a goalie. During his seven seasons with the Ottawa Senators including Clint Benedict the team had between 7 - 9 HHOFers, on their roster yet they won only three Stanley Cups. Why didn't they win more?
LOL!
What a bunch of bums! Only three cups in seven years.
Benedict's lack of consistency has been confirmed by his backers and they do not deny some weak playoff performances but they hide behind the other goalies red herring. Well Jacques Plante did not have any weak playoff performances between 1956 and 1960, Turk Broda was a rock, likewise Ken Dryden, Billy Smith, Grant Fuhr, Johnny Bower, even the Gumper with the Canadiens. Now of course the Benedict backers ignore most of these because they are not All-Time top 10 goalies BUT that is not what a team or a coach wants. Teams want their goalie to be consistent. Simple. No one is looking for top 10 all-time that is unpredictable.
Do you mean to tell us that Plante, Broda, Smith, Fuhr, Bower, and Worsley were nothing but stellar in the playoffs?
The truth is, they all had a proportion of good playoffs to mediocre ones similar to Benedict.
The other part of the HHOF teammates position is that contemporaries regularly won Stanley Cups with 4-6 HHOFERS on the roster. We mentioned Holmes and Vezina, others like Connell with a much weaker Ottawa team, won a Stanley Cup - Connell's 0.60 GAA in 1927 being a contributing factor, while his 1.12 GAA in 1935 led the Montreal Maroons to a Stanley Cup. The 1935 Maroons are considered one of the weakest cup winners. George Hainsworth won two Stanley Cups with the Canadiens with lesser HHOF representation on the roster.
- Connell had a couple of excellent playoffs. So did Curtis Joseph and Cam Ward and JS Giguere. If these guys consistently led their league in wins, GAA, and shutouts and/or were perceived as being among the top-2 goalies in a number of seasons, we'd be talking about them too. Hainsworth had some good regular seasons and some good playoffs, he was also very mediocre a lot of the time. Benedict had a much better overall career than any of these guys, but of course let's focus on ridiculous details whose importance pales in comparison to the big picture.
Again with Clint Benedict you have nice numbers if you ignore the playoff flops. If you break down the numbers and look at the supporting cast you see that the results should have been better.
Should have been better than four cups in 7 seasons? Gotcha.
The reason it is impossible to take you seriously is not just that you have a hate on for Benedict. I don't particularly think that you do. But at every possible opportunity you have tried to tear down any player whose peak was before about 1925. When discussing Taylor you didn't pick another player and attempt to prove he was more dominant than Taylor and show that Taylor was not the best of his time, you used his era and league against him. Now with Benedict, you're not telling us that any of his contemporaries had anywhere close to the career he had, but even still, you're arguing that he couldn't possibly be a top-10 goalie. If you like Vezina better, that's one thing. Show us how. And then maybe we won't be so inclined to vote him so highly if he's not "clearly" the best of his era. Based on knowledge and perception right now, he is. It's clear you don't think much about this era of hockey in general and have an agenda to keep their rankings down as much as possible.
By the way, how about that career wins record? Do you still think Benedict never had it?