Marlies GDT: Round 2, Game 4: Toronto @ Albany Devils 7PM

[Leafsman]

Anybody blaming Johnson obviously has no idea the speed at which this game is played. We're talking split second decisions.

That is why these elbows need to be dealt with harshly because even when a player makes the right decision in that split second. It is impossible to expect the player to make another immediate split-second judgement to account for an elbow.

I love hitting and fighting in hockey. That is why I am whole-heartedly disgusted with these kind of cheap shots. It is stupid things like this that threaten the game and encourage wuss-ifying hockey. Players who conduct themselves in this manner should be eliminated from the game so that players who know how to properly hit someone can take their place.

 

[SprDaVE]

You have to wonder what part of that previous recent history (If any) played a part in this incident in Kelly's mind who was just a recent victim himself of a dirty suspendable hit?.

It was probably Dan Kelly's fault, right? He put himself in a bad position and suffered the consequences. He should know better, going up against a 6'6" player.

If only Dan Kelly was 6'6", he wouldn't have even felt it probably.

 

[SEER]

Marlies Post-Game: Rich Clune - May 10, 2016

..Great interview, from Clune.., about all of this... and how he would have reacted differently years ago.. and why they chose to do what they did.. Also nice kudos to Hyman, at the start..

 

[Number13]

The model of the Marlies is what you'll see on the Leafs more than likely. Emphasis on aggressiveness, puck possession and skill. This doesn't mean you can't have any physicality at all because we all know that it's a part of the game and you need that snarl. Komarov and Kadri fit for a reason and you will see that on the Leafs for sure.

Obviously no one is saying they don't want a physical 6'3/5" monster that can score, hit, fight and do all those things. Nobody has ever denied this wouldn't be great to have now or in the future. They contribute effectively. They are rare for a reason and they are great to have when you do have them.

Colton Orr kind of players are completely useless.

What are your thoughts on signing Lucic then? He does all those things you mentioned. I'll be interested as to whether or not the Leafs brass kick some tires there. He immediately brings that presence that would make our other players play bigger and he would be a great net front presence on the power play, not to mention a Stanley Cup. It would obviously come down to dollars and term, but like you said, these players are rare, and I think if we could get one without giving up assets, that would bring some nice balance to our team.

 

[SprDaVE]

What are your thoughts on signing Lucic then? He does all those things you mentioned. I'll be interested as to whether or not the Leafs brass kick some tires there. He immediately brings that presence that would make our other players play bigger and he would be a great net front presence on the power play, not to mention a Stanley Cup. It would obviously come down to dollars and term, but like you said, these players are rare, and I think if we could get one without giving up assets, that would bring some nice balance to our team.

I'm not against it but I don't see him living up to the contract he'll get. And I do think he'll re-sign with the Kings soon.

 

[Mess]

Anybody blaming Johnson obviously has no idea the speed at which this game is played. We're talking split second decisions..

Conner Carrick looking right at the play unfolding actually gave Johnson a suicide pass at the blueline, because Andreas was looking back and down to receive it and then when he turned and got his head back around the collision happened only a split second later.

Carrick in hindsight should have dumped it in along the boards and let Johnson chase after it, as opposed to giving him the puck with possession now in the path of a hard charging defender looking for a big hit on the play.

That would have been the safer and smarter play for everyone involved.

 

[Deebo]

Conner Carrick looking right at the play unfolding actually gave Johnson a suicide pass because as he was looking back and down to receive it and then when he turned and got his head back up the collision happened only a split second later.

Carrick in hindsight should have dumped in along the boards and let Johnson chase it in, as opposed to giving him the puck in the path of a hard charging defender looking for a big hit on the play.

Wrong again.

 

[Fogelhund]

Wrong again.

Agreed

 

[Leafsman]

Conner Carrick looking right at the play unfolding actually gave Johnson a suicide pass because as he was looking back and down to receive it and then when he turned and got his head back up the collision happened only a split second later.

Carrick in hindsight should have dumped in along the boards and let Johnson chase it in, as opposed to giving him the puck in the path of a hard charging defender looking for a big hit on the play.

You seem to be hell-bent on blaming everybody but the guilty party.

That pass would have been like countless other passes had Kelly not put up the elbows. I wouldn't even count it as a suicide pass, Johnson had room to maneuvre and avoid (which he did except for the elbow). We see that pass all the time, johnson was breaking the zone so Carrick dished him the puck.

When elbowing is involved there is no excuse or blame on anyone but the elbower. Elbowing is not a part of the game, so trying to pin blame on players for having to always watch for it is ridiculous.

 

[carko32]

When I look at the play, I actually see that Johnson tried to get away from traffic. Yes indeed that Devils player was coming from his left, but Johnson was in the middle of the ice and had 1 player coming from front left and also had 2 players on his right. So if he went right, player coming from his left would still hit him, while Johnson would also have been exposed to the chance of being cut-off by players on his right, especially one defensemen was stepping forward towards him.
So Johnson tried to go left a little bit, tried to use his movement to get by Devils player and use all of the open ice that was available to him on his left. And he would get by that Devils player if he did not put his elbow out and knock him down.

And yes, I love watching hits, but I love hits, where there is no dirty play done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRcVsKnIv1A Top 10 hits of last playoffs. I liked hit #9, Carle on Krieder, hit on body. Also #8, big guy Hedman hits Sheahan, but he didn't elbowed him. I especially liked Stamkos hit on Hayes, solid hit, like you want to see it.

And also smaller players in height can be great hitters, they can also play aggressively, not every player on your team has to be 6'3 and 220lbs.

 

[Leafsman]

And yes, I love watching hits, but I love hits, where there is no dirty play done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRcVsKnIv1A Top 10 hits of last playoffs. I liked hit #9, Carle on Krieder, hit on body. Also #8, big guy Hedman hits Sheahan, but he didn't elbowed him. I especially liked Stamkos hit on Hayes, solid hit, like you want to see it.

Those are beauts!!! Those are professional hits!! No elbows, just full-on contact.

Even the Orpik-boyle hit I find is ok. The shoulder may have found the head but there was no aiming for the head.

The Wilson hit was late and questionable but full shoulder contact.

 

[TMLife*]

Said it yesterday, rewatched 100 times since, saying it again.

Zero fault to Johnson except wanting the puck too badly...

1% blame to Carrick for a suicide pass imo because Johnson was a little late of an option coming up open ice I agree.

But 99% or more of the blame goes to Kelly. Johnson would've still been hit without ejecting his elbow. He would've got a piece of him instead of the whole head and brain shot he got. So in retrospect...

ITS 100% KELLY'S FAULT and after trying to place even 1% of the blame on Carrick, I cannot honestly say that is a fact after writing this paragraph. It was a dirty play plain and simple.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Conner Carrick looking right at the play unfolding actually gave Johnson a suicide pass at the blueline, because Andreas was looking back and down to receive it and then when he turned and got his head back around the collision happened only a split second later.

Carrick in hindsight should have dumped it in along the boards and let Johnson chase after it, as opposed to giving him the puck with possession now in the path of a hard charging defender looking for a big hit on the play.

That would have been the safer and smarter play for everyone involved.

But there wasn't a hard charging defender. There was someone who only was able to make contact when he stuck his elbow out.

Using your logic the entire sport should be dump and chase...but not too deep or else you can be charged/boarded into the end boards by a defenceman making an illegal hit.

Where is this magic area of the ice your mind seems to have invented where illegal contact is impossible on a zone entry?

 

[Budsfan]

 

[TLeafsFan]

20 games for Kelly hopefully. Send a loud and clear message AHL!

 

[Mess]

But there wasn't a hard charging defender. There was someone who only was able to make contact when he stuck his elbow out.

Using your logic the entire sport should be dump and chase...but not too deep or else you can be charged/boarded into the end boards by a defenceman making an illegal hit.

Where is this magic area of the ice your mind seems to have invented where illegal contact is impossible on a zone entry?

Johnson had puck possession so he was eligible to be hit. Kelly was 100% wrong for target the head but both Johnson and Carrick played a role in how that collision came about.

So it wasn't getting hit that was illegal it was the targeting of the head (where he got hit) that was.

If Kelly kept his elbow down and simply ran over Johnson with a legal bodycheck hit, we wouldn't be talking suspension but rather how hard Johnson got rocked on the play. Kelly didn't hit Johnson late (charging or interference) as it was only a couple of split seconds after he crossed the line that the collision happened.

The only way to avoid contact and any hit would have Johnson not to received the pass but chase it into the zone without possession then Kelly couldn't have touched him without taking a penalty.

Carrick giving Johnson the puck made him live and fair game to be hit.

 

[SnazzyNazzy]

Frustrating to read people in their gdt defend the hit, even scoff at the notion of >1 game suspension.

 

[SEER]

The thing is though, Mess.. Kelly DID stick his elbow out, while looking directly at Johnson ahead of the hit..,
so this is a pre-meditated head shot..

 

[Jack Bauer]

Johnson had puck possession so he was eligible to be hit.

So it wasn't getting hit that was illegal it was the targeting of the head (where he got hit) that was.

If Kelly kept his elbow down and simply ran over Johnson with a legal bodycheck hit, we wouldn't be talking suspension but rather how hard Johnson got rocked on the play.

The only way to avoid contact and any hit would have Johnson not to received the pass but chase it into the zone without possession then Kelly couldn't have touched him without taking a penalty.

Carrick giving Johnson the puck made him live and fair game to be hit.

The more you keep responding with this narrative the worse you look.

Nobody disagrees that at one point on that play Johnson was fair game to be hit by a clean body check. But that's not anything close to the reality of what happened so why continue to present it as such?

Nobody at any point will agree with that he was in a position where he should have expected a hit to the face by an intentional elbow. There were 2 things wrong on that play. None of them were the fault of a Marlie...they were the fault of the person #1) targetting the head and #2) using an elbow to lay the hit to the head.

No person in this sport should have to worry about either of those on zone entry which is why both are pretty clear penalties.

 

[Jerkini]

If Johnson accepted the pass but took it wide and used his speed to beat the defender on the outside, it would have had a better outcome for Johnson then taking the pass and then cutting into the middle into traffic.

Or if Johnson crossed into the zone, stopped short or turned and waited for his teammates to enter the zone and let the play evolve he would have been safe from taking that hit also.

Or if he had his head up when accepting the pass he would have seen the player coming at him from a distance and 100% not taken a path right into a big collision and picked a different path or dumped the puck in and chased it, which then backs off a player from completing a check on a player without possession.

Johnson made a high risk ill advised play and that was likely what he did many times in the SEL and nothing happened so it was instinctive without giving it much thought. However in North America AHL or NHL on smaller ice with less time and space the game is different where players are looking for big hits and that needs to be learned and adapted to.

Armchair hockey playing. This is hilarious to me for some reason.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Frustrating to read people in their gdt defend the hit, even scoff at the notion of >1 game suspension.

Should be 3-5 minimum.

That hit gets you double digits in the CHL right now.

 

[TLeafsFan]

Johnson had puck possession so he was eligible to be hit.

So it wasn't getting hit that was illegal it was the targeting of the head (where he got hit) that was.

If Kelly kept his elbow down and simply ran over Johnson with a legal bodycheck hit, we wouldn't be talking suspension but rather how hard Johnson got rocked on the play.

The only way to avoid contact and any hit would have Johnson not to received the pass but chase it into the zone without possession then Kelly couldn't have touched him without taking a penalty.

Carrick giving Johnson the puck made him live and fair game to be hit.

Kelly didn't have the right trajectory to lay a proper hit on Johnson. An elbow or knee would have been the only way to get at him because Kelly didn't have him lined up properly.

 

[Mess]

The thing is though, Mess.. Kelly DID stick his elbow out, while looking directly at Johnson ahead of the hit..,
so this is a pre-meditated head shot..

No question 100% attempt to injury by Kelly and if he was suspended for all of next season I wouldn't blink an eye saying it wouldn't be just for what he did.

It was dangerous and those kinds of plays have no place in the game and those that cross the line should face significant penalties fines and suspensions. I'm in no way defending nor condoning Kelly's actions and believe the AHL should throw the book at him.

However Johnson was fair game to be hit, so that wasn't a problem and if Kelly had not used his elbow but simply hit him legally I would have believed there shouldn't even have been a penalty on the play as there wouldn't have been anything wrong with it within the rules.

Johnson was likely still going to get rocked the way that play unfolded, its just the legal verses dangerous and illegal outcome that is worth of debate and suspension term discussion. IMO

 

[Nithoniniel]

No question 100% attempt to injury by Kelly and if he was suspended for all of next season I wouldn't blink an eye saying it wouldn't be just for what he did.

It was dangerous and those kinds of plays have no place in the game and those that cross the line should face significant penalties fines and suspensions.

However Johnson was fair game to be hit, so that wasn't a problem and if Kelly had not used his elbow but simply hit him legally I would have believed there shouldn't even have been a penalty on the play as there wouldn't have been anything wrong with it within the rules.

Johnson was likely still going to get rocked the way that play unfolded, its just the legal verses dangerous and illegal outcome that is worth of debate and suspension term discussion. IMO

He was likely still going to get rocked by a player who was passing him by except for the extended elbow?

I honestly have no idea how you come to that conclusion, Mess.

 

[TMLife*]

He was likely still going to get rocked by a player who was passing him by except for the extended elbow?

I honestly have no idea how you come to that conclusion, Mess.

I disagree. He would've got a fair piece of him if he did everything to get his shoulder over towards Johnson instead of his elbow. Certainly enough to hinder the play