Marlies GDT: Round 2, Game 4: Toronto @ Albany Devils 7PM

[Number13]

This whole fighter debate is annoying.

The advanced stats posters are so vehemently against anything resembling toughness after the Burke era that they seem to forget this is a full contact sport. I see a lot of posters lobbying that the Leafs need some size and toughness, and guess what? They do.

Is a tough lineup going to prevent cheap shots? No. BUT what it does, is give our team a more complete game. Teams need skill AND to be able to grind physically in the playoffs. We are too small as of now. Watching these NHL playoffs, it's hard to see our current group being able to ramp up the physicality like we've seen so far. Ideally we could add some players with size and toughness that can contribute offensively or on special teams, but it's certainly an area this team needs to improve on if we plan on doing more than just make the playoffs.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

How did Dermott look last night?

 

[BayStreetBully]

You said that in response to statistical data that you just have to "watch the games"

To say that then say nobody has proven anything to you is rather hilarious but watching you try and make your failed argument is helping me get through my work day so please continue.

I guess you skipped over my point #3 where I said points #1 and #2 don't even matter. But yeah, happy to have you here too.

To be fair, I never actually showed BayStreetBully my data. My big failing as a poster, I'm usually too lazy to go back and find the sources for what I say.

I'm fortunate that people usually trust my word on these things, though.

No need to show me whatever studies you mentioned. I don't think it's necessary at all. But I do respect your views as a poster, as I normally agree with you on most things.

 

[Craig Button]

Elbow straight to the head.

Disgusting hit

 

[SprDaVE]

This whole fighter debate is annoying.

The advanced stats posters are so vehemently against anything resembling toughness after the Burke era that they seem to forget this is a full contact sport. I see a lot of posters lobbying that the Leafs need some size and toughness, and guess what? They do.

Is a tough lineup going to prevent cheap shots? No. BUT what it does, is give our team a more complete game. Teams need skill AND to be able to grind physically in the playoffs. We are too small as of now. Watching these NHL playoffs, it's hard to see our current group being able to ramp up the physicality like we've seen so far. Ideally we could add some players with size and toughness that can contribute offensively or on special teams, but it's certainly an area this team needs to improve on if we plan on doing more than just make the playoffs.

This has nothing do to with the discussion of deterring illegal contact to the head. What you're talking about is sensible and definitely not a bad thing. You want a balance in your lineup. This is common sense and nobody is debating this... so I'm not sure why you think some are against this. You want skill and the proper depth to handle any sort of lineup coming your way. Puck possession is proven to be the most valuable asset to your lineup.

With that said, toughness, size and physicality in the playoffs doesn't equal success. The Islanders had the most hits per game than anyone else and had quiet a bit more than the Lightning. Pittsburgh had 100 less hits than the Caps. There has been a grand total of 12 Major penalties in these playoffs so far. 12. How else can you quantify "toughness" than those 2 attributes? Blocked shots? None of those successful teams right now relied completely on physicality to push them towards being a contender.

So while it's important to have a good balance and not be completely one-dimensional throughout your lineup, I think it's incredibly important that your balance pieces are capable of being able to play in the right lineup as well.

Colton Orr is not the proper kind of toughness that we need or want at all, and I hope people realize this.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Yeah that's pretty bad. Johnson had his head up and avoided the hit, the guy just threw his elbow out high as he was slipping by.

 

[BertCorbeau]

That was a filthy hit ... Is AJ ok?

 

[Nithoniniel]

You are a very informed and balanced poster I think everyone here would agree.

Thanks, mate.

I still hold that time when you said that you'd give Gardiner a second chance because of my arguments to be one of my best on HF. You're a personal hero for me since then

No need to show me whatever studies you mentioned. I don't think it's necessary at all. But I do respect your views as a poster, as I normally agree with you on most things.

Likewise!

That was a filthy hit ... Is AJ ok?

Only thing I've heard is that his agent said that he's doing very well, considering the circumstances.

That could mean "He's only got a severe concussion so we are grateful, boy could have been killed!" for all we know.

 

[Mess]

You can't adjust or adapt to illegal hits in any sport. That's why they're deemed illegal as there should be no need to change anything you're doing as the victim of the hit.

It was an illegal hit completely irrelevant to the nationality of the player, the size of the ice surface, or any league the players may have played in.

Agreed you can't anticipate illegal hits, but I'm saying the goal is to avoid a big collision in the first place. There were plays and options possible where your head is not in any position to get hit by simply playing smarter to avoid potential contact.

If you walk down an dark alley you can still get robbed even if its illegal and you don't expect it.. But if you avoid the alley all together then you're not putting yourself at risk and in danger decreasing your odds of getting robbed. That is the point I'm making.

Johnson is a Euro born player and on big ice with less physical play then (ie walking down a dark alley) into the middle of the ice with the puck, is something that is less feared or considered dangerous in their game. If Johnson were a NA born player that has played the game on this side growing up he would have learned in junior and before that taking the puck into traffic is far more dangerous and you have to be aware of what might happen, if you chose to do so because you're putting yourself in harms way. This is part of adapting to the pro game in NA.

Size also matters because if your a big player and crash into a similarly sized player the damage of the blow is lessened then if your a smaller player taking a punishing hit from a bigger one.

6'1/210 pound Kelly running over 5-10/180lb Johnson is not going to end well for the him even if the hit is 100% legal simply by the force of the blow of bigger player slamming into a smaller one. Kelly not only took advantage of size differential but decided to cross the line as well and turn a legal hit into a dangerous suspendable attempt to injury one by intentionally targeting the head to make the hit even more harmful for Johnson in this case. Even if you take the illegal part out of the collision Johnson would still be feeling the effects of getting run over on the play. Players can't go or do whatever then want on the ice even within the rules of the game without putting some thought into what each different situation outcome might be. Hitting is legal in hockey so if you have the puck you have to be aware you might be about to take contact.

Johnson certainly wasn't expecting to have his head taken off, but what was he expecting when he accepted the pass and then cut into the middle of the ice and into the direct path of an on coming attacker coming at him like a charging bull? He had puck possession, and was therefore legal to be be hit within the rules, only not hit in the head which is against the rules.

 

[SprDaVE]

Agreed you can't anticipate illegal hits, but I'm saying the goal is to avoid a big collision in the first place. There were plays and options possible where your head is not in any position to get hit by simply playing smarter to avoid potential contact.

If you walk down an dark alley you can still get robbed even if its illegal and you don't expect it.. But if you avoid the alley all together then you're not putting yourself at risk and in danger decreasing your odds of getting robbed. That is the point I'm making.

Johnson is a Euro born player and on big ice with less physical play then (ie walking down a dark alley) into the middle of the ice with the puck, is something that is less feared or considered dangerous in their game. If Johnson were a NA born player that has played the game on this side growing up he would have learned in junior and before that taking the puck into traffic is far more dangerous and you have to be aware of what might happen, if you chose to do so because you're putting yourself in harms way. This is part of adapting to the pro game in NA.

Size also matters because if your a big player and crash into a similarly sized player the damage of the blow is lessened then if your a smaller player taking a punishing hit from a bigger one.

6'1/210 pound Kelly running over 5-10/180lb Johnson is not going to end well for the him even if the hit is 100% legal simply by the force of the blow of bigger player slamming into a smaller one. Kelly not only took advantage of size differential but decided to cross the line as well and turn a legal hit into a dangerous suspendable attempt to injury one by intentionally targeting the head to make the hit even more harmful for Johnson in this case. Even if you take the illegal part out of the collision Johnson would still be feeling the effects of getting run over on the play.

I'm laughing so hard... I should be crying at this though. So much wrong and backwards thinking.



These girls wouldn't get sexually assaulted in they were completely covered up!

Absurd. Completely absurd.

 

[SEER]

I see both sides of the argument about the hit...

Johnson probably shouldn't have started playing the north American game in a playoff situation.. and deserved to be brought in slowly.., like many others were.. He needs to get accustomed to ice size & physicality, more than anything, because his hockey skill sets are pretty good...

On the other side of the coin.., there is no excuse at all, for the hit Kelly made... and it was definitely a targeted-dirty hit, that was "intended for the head"... If the League doesn't "at least" suspend him for the rest of the season, than they are sending a terrible message to everyone about what the AHL deems okay... Keefe said it best:

...""That's the worst kind of hit that there is in the game today," said Marlies head coach Sheldon Keefe via the Albany Times Union. "The league I'm sure is going to have a look at that. I know they established a precedent for a hit like that earlier in the season with a 12-game suspension. I suspect our player is going to be out of the series, and I suspect theirs will be, as well, if not more than that.”....

Full Article --> http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...big-hit-in-ahl-playoffs--video-120002703.html

 

[Deebo]

Agreed you can't anticipate illegal hits, but I'm saying the goal is to avoid a big collision in the first place. There were plays and options possible where your head is not in any position to get hit by simply playing smarter to avoid potential contact.

If you walk down an dark alley you can still get robbed even if its illegal and you don't expect it.. But if you avoid the alley all together then you're not putting yourself at risk and in danger decreasing your odds of getting robbed. That is the point I'm making.

Johnson is a Euro born player and on big ice with less physical play then (ie walking down a dark alley) into the middle of the ice with the puck, is something that is less feared or considered dangerous in their game. If Johnson were a NA born player that has played the game on this side growing up he would have learned in junior and before that taking the puck into traffic is far more dangerous and you have to be aware of what might happen, if you chose to do so because you're putting yourself in harms way. This is part of adapting to the pro game in NA.

Size also matters because if your a big player and crash into a similarly sized player the damage of the blow is lessened then if your a smaller player taking a punishing hit from a bigger one.

6'1/210 pound Kelly running over 5-10/180lb Johnson is not going to end well for the him even if the hit is 100% legal simply by the force of the blow of bigger player slamming into a smaller one. Kelly not only took advantage of size differential but decided to cross the line as well and turn a legal hit into a dangerous suspendable attempt to injury one by intentionally targeting the head to make the hit even more harmful for Johnson in this case. Even if you take the illegal part out of the collision Johnson would still be feeling the effects of getting run over on the play.

Repeating this nonsense doesn't make it true.

 

[Fogelhund]

Agreed you can't anticipate illegal hits, but I'm saying the goal is to avoid a big collision in the first place. There were plays and options possible where your head is not in any position to get hit by simply playing smarter to avoid potential contact.

If you walk down an dark alley you can still get robbed even if its illegal and you don't expect it.. But if you avoid the alley all together then you're not putting yourself at risk and in danger decreasing your odds of getting robbed. That is the point I'm making.

Johnson is a Euro born player and on big ice with less physical play then (ie walking down a dark alley) into the middle of the ice with the puck, is something that is less feared or considered dangerous in their game. If Johnson were a NA born player that has played the game on this side growing up he would have learned in junior and before that taking the puck into traffic is far more dangerous and you have to be aware of what might happen, if you chose to do so because you're putting yourself in harms way. This is part of adapting to the pro game in NA.

Size also matters because if your a big player and crash into a similarly sized player the damage of the blow is lessened then if your a smaller player taking a punishing hit from a bigger one.

6'1/210 pound Kelly running over 5-10/180lb Johnson is not going to end well for the him even if the hit is 100% legal simply by the force of the blow of bigger player slamming into a smaller one. Kelly not only took advantage of size differential but decided to cross the line as well and turn a legal hit into a dangerous suspendable attempt to injury one by intentionally targeting the head to make the hit even more harmful for Johnson in this case. Even if you take the illegal part out of the collision Johnson would still be feeling the effects of getting run over on the play.

I couldn't agree less with your assessments of this situation. If you take the illegal part out of the collision, he just bounces off of him. Regular no problem check. Not that Johnson doesn't have something to learn here, but the onus is clearly on Kelly.

 

[Daisy Jane]

You said Marner but likely meant Johnson in this case. Freudian slip on your part but I was thinking the same thing yesterday after it happened picturing Marner lying on the ice after a big hit, where fans were saying too bad he couldn't play in the AHL until NHL ready.

What happened to Johnson here is exactly what would be managements biggest fear with tossing Marner in at the NHL level and him not physically prepared where he might get hurt. Players are going to take liberties dishing out hits particularly on smaller skilled players so they will need to adapt their games to avoid direct hits and expect this in anticipation of what the opponent might do.

Bracco and Timashov and others etc of smaller skilled players will all be in the same boat as Johnson was yesterday where bigger players are going to use physical play to defend against them.

Even if Kelly wouldn't have thrown his elbow up, Johnson was about to get run over on the play bringing the puck into the zone and cutting to the middle of the ice like he did.

Unfortunately Sheldon Keefe needs to take some responsibility here for putting Johnson in harms way and not preparing him for the AHL coming over from Sweden SEL where they don't hit legal or illegal like that.

I don't mean Keefe is to blame for a dirty hit but rather knowing the AHL hits hard and what Johnson does on big Euro ice will need an education process first preparing him for this before he tosses him to the wolves and into harms way.

Johnson is not a big guy at 5-10 and he is going to get hurt when colliding with bigger stronger players to start with as the AHL is very physical compared to the league he played in. Johnson will need to learn to adapt his game to NA style and understand what he did in the SEL will get him hurt over here. Johnson simply didn't anticipate as he needs to be aware of being run over when he crosses the blue line and the potential of heading into danger cutting into the middle like he did.

Yes I have seen it.

Johnson receives a pass and carries the puck into the zone, his head is down momentarily to control it, and then he dangerously cuts to the middle of the ice his head comes up and he sees he is about to get run over now, but its too late to avoid full contact. He attempts to get his head out of the way and Kelly tosses the elbow up while running over him turning what would have been a legal bone crushing bodycheck into and highly dangerous illegal hit to insure he makes contact with Johnson who is desperately now trying to minimize the damage on himself by trying to get out of the trolley tracks he found himself in at all cost.

Johnson took himself and the puck right into the head on collision path, and after realizing what was about to happen no longer had enough time to avoid getting hit. He was a deer in the headlights now about to get run over regardless one way or another.

In the SEL on big ice there is more time and space and coming across the blueline and cutting into the middle common practice as defenders back off with more zone to defend and there is less physical contact. In the AHL on smaller ice coming across the line and into the middle where defenders step up to defend the zone is a very dangerous undertaking unless you have your head up and see its safe to go there by reading and reacting and anticipating what the opposition will do.

It was unfortunately for Johnson a lesson he had to learn the hard way made even much worse because the defender turned it into an attempt to injury play by targeting the head worthy of a long suspension.

Its my opinion had Johnson anticipated through experience on NA ice and AHL game what can happen when crossing into the zone. Had he had his head up the full time would have seen the collision coming from a distance, and he would have taken a much safer route like taking the puck wide with speed and not directly into traffic, or stopping and holding up just across the line waiting for the play to unfold. He took the most dangerous option of accepting a pass in the neutral zone coming across the line 5ft from the boards and made a direct path cutting into the middle and right into a hard charging players path.

This is a perfect example of what is meant by adapting to the NA style game for Euro players and particularly smaller ones who need to try and avoid direct contact at the best of times.

Its just the law of physics.

If you're a smaller skilled player opponents are going to take liberties with you regardless to try and intimidate you particularly physically.

When you're 5-10 like Johnson and bent over your head is already closer to the ice and below the shoulder level of a 6-2 or bigger defender who likely has 20-30lbs on you.

Smaller skilled players have to play smarter not harder realizing they can't take and absorb pushing direct hits. They need to adapt their games and play accordingly within a big man's game. Avoiding high traffic areas and full on collisions a necessary requirement for self preservation.

If you watch Kane or Johnny Gaudreau they spin and pivot and play on the outside where its safer and don't go charging fearlessly into traffic and take direct hits. They can't play a straight line game taking pucks hard to the net and continue to take physical punishment like bigger physical players can. They adapt their games using speed and smarts and skill and not force.

If Johnson accepted the pass but took it wide and used his speed to beat the defender on the outside, it would have had a better outcome for Johnson then taking the pass and then cutting into the middle into traffic.

Or if Johnson crossed into the zone, stopped short or turned and waited for his teammates to enter the zone and let the play evolve he would have been safe from taking that hit also.

Or if he had his head up when accepting the pass he would have seen the player coming at him from a distance and 100% not taken a path right into a big collision and picked a different path or dumped the puck in and chased it, which then backs off a player from completing a check on a player without possession.

Johnson made a high risk ill advised play and that was likely what he did many times in the SEL and nothing happened so it was instinctive without giving it much thought. However in North America AHL or NHL on smaller ice with less time and space the game is different where players are looking for big hits and that needs to be learned and adapted to.

Agreed you can't anticipate illegal hits, but I'm saying the goal is to avoid a big collision in the first place. There were plays and options possible where your head is not in any position to get hit by simply playing smarter to avoid potential contact.

If you walk down an dark alley you can still get robbed even if its illegal and you don't expect it.. But if you avoid the alley all together then you're not putting yourself at risk and in danger decreasing your odds of getting robbed. That is the point I'm making.

Johnson is a Euro born player and on big ice with less physical play then (ie walking down a dark alley) into the middle of the ice with the puck, is something that is less feared or considered dangerous in their game. If Johnson were a NA born player that has played the game on this side growing up he would have learned in junior and before that taking the puck into traffic is far more dangerous and you have to be aware of what might happen, if you chose to do so because you're putting yourself in harms way. This is part of adapting to the pro game in NA.

Size also matters because if your a big player and crash into a similarly sized player the damage of the blow is lessened then if your a smaller player taking a punishing hit from a bigger one.

6'1/210 pound Kelly running over 5-10/180lb Johnson is not going to end well for the him even if the hit is 100% legal simply by the force of the blow of bigger player slamming into a smaller one. Kelly not only took advantage of size differential but decided to cross the line as well and turn a legal hit into a dangerous suspendable attempt to injury one by intentionally targeting the head to make the hit even more harmful for Johnson in this case. Even if you take the illegal part out of the collision Johnson would still be feeling the effects of getting run over on the play. Players can't go or do whatever then want on the ice even within the rules of the game without putting some thought into what each different situation outcome might be. Hitting is legal in hockey so if you have the puck you have to be aware you might be about to take contact.

I think i got all your posts.

Mess. you are wrong. On all of this. Just flat out, 100 percent, unadulterated wrong. You are so wrong, Im not even going to pick apart your posts. to specify how exactly you are wrong. You just are. the fact that you are blaming this on Johnson, the fact that he is small, on Keefe and you are still insistent that he had his head down is utterly and completely sad.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'm amazed how a dodged hit with an extended elbow catching a player in the head suddenly turned into a big player "crashing into" a smaller one.

The only effect that size has on this particular situation is that if Johnson was 6'8", Kelly would have had to jump.

Yet the topic has of course become about size again.

 

[SEER]

Personally.... I think that "if" Kelly is still playing at some point in this series, than a simple "sandwich hit" can be done cleanly.., without any penalties... and to make the statement..

Maybe something like, Holl on one side and Clune on the other..,
just before the game ends..?

Maybe like this NHL 13 hit, but along the boards..

 

[deletethis]

To attempt to be fair, I don't think anyone has actually suggested in this thread the NHL should become a no-hitting (or even no-fighting) league. But I do share the suspicion that there is an element laying in wait who covertly promote that course for the game. I've visited other fan sites where this is an overt agenda. Where prospects are disliked for having attributes that couldn't be showcased in games of shinny.

 

[Number13]

This has nothing do to with the discussion of deterring illegal contact to the head. What you're talking about is sensible and definitely not a bad thing. You want a balance in your lineup. This is common sense and nobody is debating this... so I'm not sure why you think some are against this. You want skill and the proper depth to handle any sort of lineup coming your way. Puck possession is proven to be the most valuable asset to your lineup.

With that said, toughness, size and physicality in the playoffs doesn't equal success. The Islanders had the most hits per game than anyone else and had quiet a bit more than the Lightning. Pittsburgh had 100 less hits than the Caps. There has been a grand total of 12 Major penalties in these playoffs so far. 12. How else can you quantify "toughness" than those 2 attributes? Blocked shots? None of those successful teams right now relied completely on physicality to push them towards being a contender.

So while it's important to have a good balance and not be completely one-dimensional throughout your lineup, I think it's incredibly important that your balance pieces are capable of being able to play in the right lineup as well.

Colton Orr is not the proper kind of toughness that we need or want at all, and I hope people realize this.

Well penalty majors is not what I'm talking about with toughness, hits to an extent, yes. But I don't think anyone here has lobbyed for a Colton Orr type enforcer unless I missed it.

And you're right, no team in these playoffs have relied completely on toughness for success, but the successful ones have still had it in spades. Toughness is about a general aggressiveness to me, digging in on every puck battle, taking a hit to make a play, sacrificing the body to block a shot. Most of these things aren't quantified, yet are very important. But we're going to have a very hard time being a possession team if we don't have the fight to win the puck battles.

 

[SprDaVE]

Well penalty majors is not what I'm talking about with toughness, hits to an extent, yes. But I don't think anyone here has lobbyed for a Colton Orr type enforcer unless I missed it.

And you're right, no team in these playoffs have relied completely on toughness for success, but they've certainly had it in spades. Toughness is about a general aggressiveness to me, digging in on every puck battle, taking a hit to make a play, sacrificing the body to block a shot. Most of these things aren't quantified, yet are very important. But we're going to have a very hard time being a possession team if we don't have the fight to win the puck battles.

And this is what the balance is. That's good. Aggressiveness, compete level and puck possession are incredibly important to go with perhaps your more skilled and passive players. A lot of people think Colton Orr would have deterred the hit to Johnson, for the record. Or better yet, he would sent a "message".

This Marlies team throughout the year have been a very aggressive and puck dominant possession team. They weren't one of the best AHL teams ever for a reason.

They do not lack any of the toughness you're trying to say they need. They do lack the size in their forward group however, especially with Lindberg, Frattin and Gauthier scratched/injured. Let's not forget Albany were the 2nd best AHL team this year. A lot of veterans and were one of the best defensive teams, if not the best. It was always going to be a tough series.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I'm amazed how a dodged hit with an extended elbow catching a player in the head suddenly turned into a big player "crashing into" a smaller one.

The only effect that size has on this particular situation is that if Johnson was 6'8", Kelly would have had to jump.

Yet the topic has of course become about size again.

right? it's honestly sad.

 

[SEER]

Marlies Highlights: Toronto @ Albany: Game 4 - May 10, 2016



Marlies Post-Game: Sheldon Keefe - May 10, 2016

 

[Nithoniniel]

Well penalty majors is not what I'm talking about with toughness, hits to an extent, yes. But I don't think anyone here has lobbyed for a Colton Orr type enforcer unless I missed it.

And you're right, no team in these playoffs have relied completely on toughness for success, but they've certainly had it in spades. Toughness is about a general aggressiveness to me, digging in on every puck battle, taking a hit to make a play, sacrificing the body to block a shot. Most of these things aren't quantified, yet are very important. But we're going to have a very hard time being a possession team if we don't have the fight to win the puck battles.

I agree with you when you word it like this. Toughness as in determination, stubbornness and will to do whatever it takes to win. The Toews kind of toughness?

I think that's been a difference in this series. We are obviously the more talented team, but we are not close to matching their determination. In the first three games that is, this fourth one was odd.

 

[Number13]

And this is what the balance is. That's good. Aggressiveness, compete level and puck possession are incredibly important to go with perhaps your more skilled and passive players. And a lot of people think Colton Orr would have deterred the hit to Johnson, for the record.

This Marlies team throughout the year have been a very aggressive and puck dominant possession team. They weren't one of the best AHL teams ever for a reason.

They do not lack any of the toughness you're trying to say they need.

Well I was mostly talking big picture and the Leafs, not so much this particular Marlies team. We can see what that balance can do in the AHL with our Marlies, but the Leafs don't have the equivalent build for the NHL yet to enjoy the success the Marlies have had in the AHL.

As for those who think Orr would prevent hits like this, I can't speak for them, but I do believe a strong team should have a certain level of intimidation to them along with skill and puck possession. Obviously Orr is not the answer, but if you can get guys that can play positive minutes in the bottom 6, while adding that element, it makes your team that much more complete. LA and Anaheim is the model I look to.

 

[Mess]

I couldn't agree less with your assessments of this situation. If you take the illegal part out of the collision, he just bounces off of him. Regular no problem check. Not that Johnson doesn't have something to learn here, but the onus is clearly on Kelly.

The surprising part is that Dan Kelly himself was just injured a couple months back when a Binghamton player kneed him and was suspended for it while Kelly was sidelined with injury.

Binghamton player suspended for hit on Devils’ Kelly (March 15,2016)

The American Hockey League announced Sunday that Binghamton Senators left wing Buddy Robinson has been suspended for two games for a kneeing incident Friday night against the Albany Devils.

Robinson’s knee caught that of Devils defenseman Dan Kelly, who hasn’t played since. Devils coach Rick Kowalsky said Saturday night that Kelly is out indefinitely because of the injury.

“It certainly didn’t look good on video,” Kowalsky said. “We don’t expect him back any time soon.” Robinson will miss Sunday’s game at Rochester and Friday’s game against Syracuse.

You have to wonder what part of that previous recent history (If any) played a part in this incident in Kelly's mind who was just a recent victim himself of a dirty suspendable hit?.

 

[SprDaVE]

Well I was mostly talking big picture and the Leafs, not so much this particular Marlies team. We can see what that balance can do in the AHL with our Marlies, but the Leafs don't have the equivalent build for the NHL yet to enjoy the success the Marlies have had in the AHL.

As for those who think Orr would prevent hits like this, I can't speak for them, but I do believe a strong team should have a certain level of intimidation to them along with skill and puck possession. Obviously Orr is not the answer, but if you can get guys that can play positive minutes in the bottom 6, while adding that element, it makes your team that much more complete. LA and Anaheim is the model I look to.

The model of the Marlies is what you'll see on the Leafs more than likely. Emphasis on aggressiveness, puck possession and skill. This doesn't mean you can't have any physicality at all because we all know that it's a part of the game and you need that snarl. Komarov and Kadri fit for a reason and you will see that on the Leafs for sure.

Obviously no one is saying they don't want a physical 6'3/5" monster that can score, hit, fight and do all those things. Nobody has ever denied this wouldn't be great to have now or in the future. They contribute effectively. They are rare for a reason and they are great to have when you do have them.

Colton Orr kind of players are completely useless.