Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Beerz]

They wanted Krebs instead of Elvenes and Hague. And they waited until he was in the deal. the 20+ goal, 50+ point PF who loved the idea of being a Sabre while on one of the better deals in the league is now supposedly only a cap dump too? Some of y'all...

I didn't call Tuch a cap dump. But he was a 15-20 goal scorer before last year. He definitely wasn't the shining star in the Eichel deal and all reports show that.

 

[Irie]

They wanted Krebs instead of Elvenes and Hague. And they waited until he was in the deal. the 20+ goal, 50+ point PF who loved the idea of being a Sabre while on one of the better deals in the league is now supposedly only a cap dump too? Some of y'all...

The realty of the situation was that after signing his long term deal, he only scored 8 goals in 42 games. Then 15 in 55, and was signed for 5 million long term and was recovering from major season ending shoulder surgery. All this during the COVID cap crunch that saw cap space at it's most valuable in the history of the league.

I love Tuch and have said multiple times that he is the last Sabre I am trading now if I were Adams, but he was never the main piece in the Eichel trade.

Adams wanted high end draft capital. He wanted multiple firsts, but Krebs had more value than a mid 1st at the time of that trade. Tuch was the salaried player included to make the cap work, never a sticking point on the deal getting done.

 

[Butt Ox]

In hindsight, keeping JE (sans C, no approved surgery) on the roster would have been far more entertaining the last couple go rounds. I love the Tuch woo. I just think the messier mess the Sabres would have become would have been funner than this poop.

 

[OkimLom]

Saying Tuch was a cap dump at the time is totally disingenuous.

If you’re looking at Tuch as what is commonly looked at as a cap dump, in terms of quality of play and future role on the team, I would agree with you.

But in terms of a contract that Vegas decided to part with to make room for Eichel’s contract, he’s objectively THe cap dump of the deal.

 

[Irie]

If you’re looking at Tuch as what is commonly looked at as a cap dump, in terms of quality of play and future role on the team, I would agree with you.

But in terms of a contract that Vegas decided to part with to make room for Eichel’s contract, he’s objectively THe cap dump of the deal.

Nicely articulated.

I don't know how much value Tuch actually held at the time of the trade, but I do know that in the summer of 2019, many Vegas fans were trying to figure out how to unload his contract and lambasting McPhee for signing him so early(contract was signed in 2018 and hadn't even kicked in yet).

The following season he bounced back a bit, but then had a bad shoulder injury and season ending surgery, which is always a huge concern for players who play the way he does.

At 5M, I'm pretty certain he did not hold much value league wide.

Guy turned out to be the gem in the deal and a total steal. Question is, was Adam's smarter than all the pundits? Or did he just get lucky?

 

[Willgamesh]

The realty of the situation was that after signing his long term deal, he only scored 8 goals in 42 games. Then 15 in 55, and was signed for 5 million long term and was recovering from major season ending shoulder surgery. All this during the COVID cap crunch that saw cap space at it's most valuable in the history of the league.

I love Tuch and have said multiple times that he is the last Sabre I am trading now if I were Adams, but he was never the main piece in the Eichel trade.

Adams wanted high end draft capital. He wanted multiple firsts, but Krebs had more value than a mid 1st at the time of that trade. Tuch was the salaried player included to make the cap work, never a sticking point on the deal getting done.

Krebs at the time was not valued more then a mid 1st he was 17th OA coming off Injruy in his draft year and had 1 pt in 13 games with Vegas. You guys are just saying a bunch of revisionist history.

If you’re looking at Tuch as what is commonly looked at as a cap dump, in terms of quality of play and future role on the team, I would agree with you.

But in terms of a contract that Vegas decided to part with to make room for Eichel’s contract, he’s objectively THe cap dump of the deal.

So you're just changing the meaning of the words to fit your narrative got it.

 

[Irie]

Krebs at the time was not valued more then a mid 1st he was 17th OA coming off Injruy in his draft year and had 1 pt in 13 games with Vegas. You guys are just saying a bunch of revisionist history

Krebs was 19 when he played those 13 games.

No one was judging his future production based off of that sample size.

He was hands down Vegas' top prospect, and he had a lot more value at the time of the deal than he does now.

 

[Willgamesh]

Krebs was 19 when he played those 13 games.

No one was judging his future production based off of that sample size.

He was hands down Vegas' top prospect, and he had a lot more value at the time of the deal than he does now.

So he was drafted 17th showed nothing to improve value then was somehow worth higher then where he was drafted?

 

[Beerz]

We were trading our franchise Center.... Of course Adams was looking for a Center prospect in the return.
Nobody believes his main target was an oft injured 3rd line winger at the time who averaged 15ish goals a year.. just stop.

The hold up was securing that top prospect Center prospect.

 

[Beerz]

So he was drafted 17th showed nothing to improve value then was somehow worth higher then where he was drafted?

All reports are that he dropped to 17th in 1st round because of his achilles injury.

 

[Irie]

So he was drafted 17th showed nothing to improve value then was somehow worth higher then where he was drafted?

Krebs was consistently ranked around 10th or just outside the top 10 in mock drafts. (10th on McKenzie's list, so just looking at his draft position doesn't take in the entire picture. (He dropped but may have gone higher had the draft order of teams been different).

He had some injury trouble, but he was still a highly valuable prospect. I will concede that a mid-first is a poor description on my part, and I was actually meant it to describe a mid-"non lottery pick), which is mostly where everyone believed the pick would fall.

Vegas had no issues including their 1st for Eichel, but did not want to include Krebs . I think that speaks volumes of his value at the time of the trade.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Krebs was consistently ranked around 10th or just outside the top 10 in mock drafts. (10th on McKenzie's list, so just looking at his draft position doesn't take in the entire picture. (He dropped but may have gone higher had the draft order of teams been different).

He had some injury trouble, but he was still a highly valuable prospect. I will concede that a mid-first is a poor description on my part, and I was actually meant it to describe a mid-"non lottery pick), which is mostly where everyone believed the pick would fall.

Vegas had no issues including their 1st for Eichel, but did not want to include Krebs . I think that speaks volumes of his value at the time of the trade.

Cool story. Were you there during negotiations or something? How are you such an authority on what was in everyone’s minds at the negotiation table?

 

[RefsIdeas]

FWIW I don’t think the Eichel trade gets done without including Tuch and Krebs. The Sabres wanted both fairly equally imo

 

[Willgamesh]

All reports are that he dropped to 17th in 1st round because of his achilles injury.

I already mentioned his injury, he was traded years after that, and like I said did nothing to increase his value.

 

[Beerz]

Cool story. Were you there during negotiations or something? How are you such an authority on what was in everyone’s minds at the negotiation table?

Those are the reports from the credible insiders.... and was what was discussed here at the time of the trade.

 

[RefsIdeas]

I already mentioned his injury, he was traded years after that, and like I said did nothing to increase his value.

He was incredible on a poor Winnipeg team after his draft.

 

[OkimLom]

So you're just changing the meaning of the words to fit your narrative got it.

I don’t have a narrative, just pointing out context of how someone may view what a cap dump is.

In discussions sometimes, there are moments people are talking past one another because of how they may define/view things. Just pointing out where that could happen. Its why it’s important for people to define terms in arguments or at least clarify what they mean about something, so that there’s an equal understanding for all parties involved so they are arguing from the same point.

 

[SundherDome]

It is a total rewrite of history.




View attachment 851760

He also states that he hasn't spoken to either team about it, so my assumption is he is talking as a mouth piece from other sources that are feeding him information.

It is a total rewrite of history.




View attachment 851760

He also states in that video that he hasn't spoken to either team about it, so my assumption is he is talking as a mouth piece from other "unnamed" sources that are feeding him information. This seems to be the only piece mentioning it.



In the same speculative nature, it was also reported that Vegas wanted to move Theodore instead of Tuch and Adams insisted on Tuch because he was signed long term and a nice value and was one of the few players in the league that wanted to come here.

 

[DJN21]

Anyone who doesn't think the local boy powerforward wasn't the primary piece is out to lunch.

Also many on the board were salivating for tuch back to his draft year. When he went elsewhere many (myself included) still pined for him
When it became apparent we might finally be able to get him then he became the center piece of the deal. Maybe its just slanted perception on both sides based on who we wanted and when?? This seems like the most pointless debate we've ever gotten in....well that was a hyperbole but you get my drift. Is Mike weber captain yet?

 

[RefsIdeas]

As far as who this board considered as the primary piece at the time, let’s revisit the trade thread:

Confirmed with Link: - [BUF/VGK] Jack Eichel & 3rd-2023(BUF) FOR Peyton Krebs, Alex Tuch, 1st-2022(VGK) & 2nd-2023(VGK)

Edit: Of course conditions...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[stokes84]

As far as who this board considered as the primary piece at the time, let’s revisit the trade thread:

Confirmed with Link: - [BUF/VGK] Jack Eichel & 3rd-2023(BUF) FOR Peyton Krebs, Alex Tuch, 1st-2022(VGK) & 2nd-2023(VGK)

Edit: Of course conditions...

forums.hfboards.com

That’s a tough read.

 

[DJN21]

That’s a tough read.

What page are you on out of 47?

 

[SundherDome]

We were trading our franchise Center.... Of course Adams was looking for a Center prospect in the return.
Nobody believes his main target was an oft injured 3rd line winger at the time who averaged 15ish goals a year.. just stop.

The hold up was securing that top prospect Center prospect.

Or what everyone else saw was a young, speedy, high energy, offensive power forward signed to a really good deal long term. The kicker was he was from Syracuse. He was absolutely the target. If Adams walked out with only futures, he probably would have been fired.

 

[debaser66]

I'm expecting Jokiharju for Laughton as their "big" summer move.

I still think the Mitts trade was a mistake considering what they have at forward.
Even if Cozens rebounds they are one effective center short.
I would have liked them to sign or trade an effective vet who plays positionally sound, physical game instead of trading for another inexperienced young D who is a puckmover & probably cost them more to resign then if they would have extended Mitts.
Too much money locked up on the same type of D, probably not enough money to fix the C problem.
Am I wrong with my assessment?
What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Beerz]

Or what everyone else saw was a young, speedy, high energy, offensive power forward signed to a really good deal long term. The kicker was he was from Syracuse. He was absolutely the target. If Adams walked out with only futures, he probably would have been fired.

Fired? By who? Lol