WC: Roster Talk '13 — Russia

[Atas2000]

well this is BS.
Of course he blame the players,because the poor plays by the NT cant have nothing to do with his gameplan...
As i said before, is it a convincident to loose for the first time im history to norway,france and get humuliated i QF??

Maybe you think the present hockey Russia plays is good, and you are satisfied to only get to QF?

I see which kind of a fan you re now. But that's not how it works. I'm not satified. I'm not disappointed. I don't care about the outcome of the WC, especially a few months before the Olympics. What I care about is how the team is being built for the Olympics.

The remarks about "humiliated" can only amuse me. We lost a game. It's sports. If Bill wants to win the next one he needs to do his homework.

If you look at the tournament overall you'll see that the Czechs failed big time with the cast they had. Canada lost to Sweden with a roster stronger than in recent years. Doesn't mean a thing for the Olympics.

Expecting Russia to win every year is just unrealistic.

P.S. Are you sure you watched the right tournament? Because I can't remeber Russia and Norway even being in the same group this year.

 

[kp61c]

I see which kind of a fan you re now. But that's not how it works. I'm not satified. I'm not disappointed. I don't care about the outcome of the WC, especially a few months before the Olympics. What I care about is how the team is being built for the Olympics.

The remarks about "humiliated" can only amuse me. We lost a game. It's sports. If Bill wants to win the next one he needs to do his homework.

If you look at the tournament overall you'll see that the Czechs failed big time with the cast they had. Canada lost to Sweden with a roster stronger than in recent years. Doesn't mean a thing for the Olympics.

Expecting Russia to win every year is just unrealistic.

P.S. Are you sure you watched the right tournament? Because I can't remeber Russia and Norway even being in the same group this year.

we're not canadians, these justifications sound realy crappy here.

 

[Atas2000]

What do you have that says it is not true? It's a fact that Bykov had greater results than Bilyaletdinov. Bykov lost like what.. 7 games over 6 years (in WC and olympics)?
And he has never had a total flat game except for Germany in 2011.
And Bilyaletdinov had to use Russias olympic team to achieve gold but still have worthless games against minor teams and without that superstar team of 2012 it he failed so hard as we all could see this year.

You say that Bill needs a special type of players to make his system work... well that's not what a good coach is. A bad coach needs certain players to make it work, a good coach makes any team play good or better.

That's exactly what I meant. You count "games in WC and Olympics". It doesn't work that way in sports. There are games that matter and games that don't. Bykov has lost his most important game. That weights way more than all his EHT and WC success. If you win a tournament nobody asks you afterwards about some round robin loss. On Bykov's record he has won 2 WCs with a pretty decent cast of players to say the least and then he failed in the Olympics with all the superstars(a unique blend that will probaly never return in the years to come. Sochi is the last chance for those players. After that we'll probaly never have a Datsyuk, Malkin, Kovy, Ovi, Syomin, Radu embarassment or riches. At least not for the next 20 years or so with the 90s hole still nagging at our whole system.) and he failed in 2 WCs with an even better roster then the ones he had won. I don's see the point in counting his wins in some meaningless games. He probably has won some EHTs as well. I don't even know or care.

Last year's team was "olympic" and Bill "had to use it"? Okay. It did give me laugh.

Facts are they've had a perfect tournament, BUT what matters is the won the QF, the SF and the final. If they lost to France in a preliminary game I wouldn't care.

Th Olympics will show what Bill and his system is worth in the end. Until then it's stupid to compare.

 

[Atas2000]

we're not canadians, these justifications sound realy crappy here.

we don't have to realize all nation's best players can only play in the Olympics due to the current regulations in the world of hockey?

it doesn't make the Olympics the most important tournament in hockey?

The WC is the WC. It's nice to win it. Every loss hurts, but that thing in Vancouver really did hurt. Right now we've seen our "2nd freshness" players lose(Mozyakin, Petrov, Biryukov, Popov. If I see those name anywhere near the olympic roster I'll lose it). Only means there is alot of work to do about our depth.

 

[ZZM]

I see which kind of a fan you re now. But that's not how it works. I'm not satified. I'm not disappointed. I don't care about the outcome of the WC, especially a few months before the Olympics. What I care about is how the team is being built for the Olympics.

The remarks about "humiliated" can only amuse me. We lost a game. It's sports. If Bill wants to win the next one he needs to do his homework.

If you look at the tournament overall you'll see that the Czechs failed big time with the cast they had. Canada lost to Sweden with a roster stronger than in recent years. Doesn't mean a thing for the Olympics.

Expecting Russia to win every year is just unrealistic.

P.S. Are you sure you watched the right tournament? Because I can't remeber Russia and Norway even being in the same group this year.

first of all,when some people answering your post with "you dont now hockey, this is BS, i now what kind of fan you are etc" shows more who you are..

WC means alot more than what you think,even however olympics is coming. what should be a so big diffence in the way they playing now or in the olympics?

"its sports" , are you gonna say same thing in the olympics?

I dont expect russia to win every year, but as a strong nation like russia in hockey, qf cant be acceptable. especially 8 goals in own net, whit this "defensive hockey strategy"..

Ps i was talking about NT i generally of the year. they loose for the first time in history in a pre game against norway. and your answer will be " it doesnt matter, its sports"..

 

[Fantomas]

we don't have to realize all nation's best players can only play in the Olympics due to the current regulations in the world of hockey?

it doesn't make the Olympics the most important tournament in hockey?

The WC is the WC. It's nice to win it. Every loss hurts, but that thing in Vancouver really did hurt. Right now we've seen our "2nd freshness" players lose(Mozyakin, Petrov, Biryukov, Popov. If I see those name anywhere near the olympic roster I'll lose it). Only means there is alot of work to do about our depth.

What would be your preferred roster for Sochi right now?

 

[Fantomas]

You are pretty delusional. I mean you even mention Zakharkin(who is this man?). "They" have implemented a systems called "let the stars do the work"(with Ufa Allstars and tha stars on the Nt it gave them their share of success). We all have seen how well their so called system worked in Vancouver and Bratislava.

He motivated well until they faultered? N-I-C-E! I regret to inform you that the point to start motivation is when the team loses until then every happy internet hockey related board poster would be able to "motivate" a winning team. It's when the team starts to stumble motivation skils come into play. And Bykov had none.

Bill does try to have a responsible defence. His problem is he fears to implement offensive D-men into his model. That causes him to invite the "reliable" Biryukov or Denisov(he's had a good tournament actually). And then he hangs on to his soviet inspired 5 man units. Biryukov was easily the worst D-man on the team, but Billl never tried to move him. Nikulin not being his usual self didn't help either so we had our worst D-pairing playing the most minutes, playing aginst opposition's top forwads and even on our 1st PP unit. I can understand putting Nikulin there and hoping he'll find his stride. But Biryukov on th 1st unit was almost unbearable to watch.

Bill needs to give more offensive minded AND young D-men a chance. Then his system will work just fine in time. I know we actually don't have time now.

Leave the NHL aside Zaitsev, Rylov, Mamashev, Antipin deserve a chance. Arzamastsev too. That's 5 players, so let's not pretend we have nothing left in stock.

Then ppl don't realize our D missed some key players. Last year we had Yemelin and a helathy Ryasensky(we missed him this year more than ppl realize). The rest of the cast produced exactly what we have all seen. No real OD there to help the forwards and the "reliable" guys not at all reliable(That's where Yemelin an Ryasensjky helped a great deal) Medvedev performed well, but he's still not the prototypical OD and then Bill put him on the 2nd PP which looked good and as I said never moved his unmovable first pairing. That all resulted in the anemic D we had in the tournament.

Bill has to give up on the "biryukovs" and give some maybe unproven guys a chance.

That brings us to the second big problem Bill seem to have. He's so obsessed with reliability he never gives young players a real chance. Zaitsev looked good against Austria and gets benched as reward against the US.

I don't see what harm would be done if Bill invited Yakupov, Tarasenko the D-men I mentioned and we would have lost the QF(let's get this straight he was right with Kuznetsov. he needed that wake up call the way he played in the KHL and the EHT).

Bill seems to be doing agreat job selecting guys for the 4th line. Soin was new to the mix and was good. The 4th line was good overall. But his "experimenting" with Mozyakin who has proven so many times he underperforms as soon as he gets near the NT and No-Vision-Petrov also were a part of the constantly disabled two lines with all the shifting Bill started later. Popov has never performed either and got promoted to center for some reason. Loktionov isn't Malkin, but he's stil a natural center and better than Popov there.

Great post. I also find Bill too conservative.

Live or die with talent and youth. This means Tarasenko, Kuznetsov and maybe even Yakupov should be in Sochi.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

I don´t care to argue anymore here, but I can say that I don´t agree with Atas on too many things.

Anyway, for those of you who are afraid that we will have a hard time after Kovalchuk, Datsyuk etc. gets too old and worrying that our new players won´t come up to a high level - Well here's a little video that shows that history may repeat Tikhonovs words there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yuld5bKYLEQ#t=454s

Also, I believe a lot of russian fans here live in north america and gets fed with stuff like "IIHF WC doesn´t matter, no one cares about it" or "only those who play in the NHL are good players enough". Well, a lot of us in Europe do care about EHT and the world championship and winning an olympic doesn´t cover for failing 10 world championships because that proves that a country has only a team enough for a tournament when all its necessary parts fall in place.
I personally think it's a good thing that the last 5 years more and more of our juniors have decided to stay longer in Russia or even stay in KHL instead of going to NHL. That proves heart and is a far less worrying factor than superstars like Ovechkin going to NHL just to get a worse play when he comes to the national team than before he went overseas.

 

[dimi19]

I don´t care to argue anymore here, but I can say that I don´t agree with Atas on too many things.

Anyway, for those of you who are afraid that we will have a hard time after Kovalchuk, Datsyuk etc. gets too old and worrying that our new players won´t come up to a high level - Well here's a little video that shows that history may repeat Tikhonovs words there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yuld5bKYLEQ#t=454s

Also, I believe a lot of russian fans here live in north america and gets fed with stuff like "IIHF WC doesn´t matter, no one cares about it" or "only those who play in the NHL are good players enough". Well, a lot of us in Europe do care about EHT and the world championship and winning an olympic doesn´t cover for failing 10 world championships because that proves that a country has only a team enough for a tournament when all its necessary parts fall in place.
I personally think it's a good thing that the last 5 years more and more of our juniors have decided to stay longer in Russia or even stay in KHL instead of going to NHL. That proves heart and is a far less worrying factor than superstars like Ovechkin going to NHL just to get a worse play when he comes to the national team than before he went overseas.

great post, great link, maladets!!!!

 

[Yakushev72]

I don´t care to argue anymore here, but I can say that I don´t agree with Atas on too many things.

Anyway, for those of you who are afraid that we will have a hard time after Kovalchuk, Datsyuk etc. gets too old and worrying that our new players won´t come up to a high level - Well here's a little video that shows that history may repeat Tikhonovs words there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yuld5bKYLEQ#t=454s

Also, I believe a lot of russian fans here live in north america and gets fed with stuff like "IIHF WC doesn´t matter, no one cares about it" or "only those who play in the NHL are good players enough". Well, a lot of us in Europe do care about EHT and the world championship and winning an olympic doesn´t cover for failing 10 world championships because that proves that a country has only a team enough for a tournament when all its necessary parts fall in place.
I personally think it's a good thing that the last 5 years more and more of our juniors have decided to stay longer in Russia or even stay in KHL instead of going to NHL. That proves heart and is a far less worrying factor than superstars like Ovechkin going to NHL just to get a worse play when he comes to the national team than before he went overseas.

As Russian leagues (KHL, MHL) continue to grow in quality and prestige, the need to only consider going to NA to validate your hockey career will slip away. I believe it is inevitable

 

[Namba 17]

Atas2000 Almost totally agree. This especially:

That's exactly what I meant. You count "games in WC and Olympics". It doesn't work that way in sports. There are games that matter and games that don't. Bykov has lost his most important game. That weights way more than all his EHT and WC success.
...
Th Olympics will show what Bill and his system is worth in the end. Until then it's stupid to compare.

Really, can't understand why BiZ have that many fans? They were good, and I'm thankfull to them for 2 WC gold, but they couldn't overcome some level, and that's why they should've gone. So far we don't know if Bill has the same weakness. It's obvious for me that after previous WC he decided, that he had proved basis for the team and the only thing he needs - add to it some newcomers. It was a mistake, it's obvious now and the main question - will he be able to overcome it? I guess the Bill's report on Federation after WC will provide us with this information. At least commentators say that he made right conclusions.