Roster Speculation '17-'18: Someone, Somewhere, In Summertime

[joshjull]

 

[is the answer jesus]

Agreed. He was excellent in the later parts of his rookie season. But that player just never got off the ground last year, and hasn't so far this year either.

Yet he still outproduced his rookie season last year. Jumping from 42 points to 47. His possesion stats have been fantastic the entire time. I mean we're starting a poll on the main boards about a 21 year old coming off a 47 point season and calling him a bust? Does it surprise you that people are getting aggravated?

 

[joshjull]

Figured I'd post this now so I don't cause a penalty later.

 

[joshjull]

The above are Antipin's high danger for and against. He had a tough 3 games. He and McCabe were a nightmare together.

Obvious caveat is this is a small sample and he's adjusting to NHL.

 

[Icicle]

Antipin had a tough 3 games. He and McCabe were a nightmare together.

Obvious caveat is this is a small sample and he's adjusting to NHL.

McCabe has been a nightmare the whole season and end of last

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Evaluating players by HDSC is as dumb as goals. Gorges is our worst defensemen in shots and chances. Hooray for three games of luck.

Also, evergreen reminder, Dave Davis f***ing sucks.

 

[Moskau]

Agreed. He was excellent in the later parts of his rookie season. But that player just never got off the ground last year, and hasn't so far this year either.

He's made plenty of great passes that haven't resulted in goals just this year alone. Just in the first two games Kyle Okposo had two slam dunk passes from Reinhart that he did nothing with. Not trying to turn this into a "But Eichel" thread but when Eichel was making those same passes to Kane people went ballistic.

 

[dasaybz]

Does Mike Milbury know you're stealing his material?

But I guess you're right, because watching the games and all.

We got better by inserting a guy who sucks into the lineup, even though he's sucked, and not because of the other changes that have driven actual statistical improvement.

When did I say that the other changes didn't benefit us at all?

 

[joshjull]

Evaluating players by HDSC is as dumb as goals. Gorges is our worst defensemen in shots and chances. Hooray for three games of luck.

Also, evergreen reminder, Dave Davis ****ing sucks.

Are you really getting this wound up over nothing?

 

[Duddy]

Antipin should play, he needs to adjust and sabres need to see what they have in him.

 

[stokes84]

Yet he still outproduced his rookie season last year. Jumping from 42 points to 47. His possesion stats have been fantastic the entire time. I mean we're starting a poll on the main boards about a 21 year old coming off a 47 point season and calling him a bust? Does it surprise you that people are getting aggravated?

I don't care if people are aggravated by it, it's a fair question. Daigle is the biggest draft bust in history, and he put up numbers that were significantly better than Reinhart. The question is really about expectations vs. reality. The general consensus is that he's not living up to expectations. The difference between "disappointment" and "bust" is nothing but semantics.

 

[joshjull]

I mean, his replacement has been worse at everything, so it's definitely that and not the other changes to the defense.

You sure about that?

Because I'm looking at the numbers and you'd be hard pressed to make that argument.

 

[Aladyyn]

Are we seriously comparing Reinhart to Daigle? Sam is better than Daigle ever was.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Sam has consistently been playing easy competution eith easy starts so it doesnt matter. Fancy stats in isolation are just that, fancy stats in isolation. Sam does not fetch Duchene.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Are you really getting this wound up over nothing?

Worthless analysis, worthlesser source.

 

[Aladyyn]

Sam has consistently been playing easy competution eith easy starts so it doesnt matter. Fancy stats in isolation are just that, fancy stats in isolation. Sam does not fetch Duchene.

Untrue.

No amount of "context" can bridge the gap between Reinhart's on-ice stats and the rest of the team. None. Don't even bother trying.

 

[OkimLom]

I don't care if people are aggravated by it, it's a fair question. Daigle is the biggest draft bust in history, and he put up numbers that were significantly better than Reinhart. The question is really about expectations vs. reality. The general consensus is that he's not living up to expectations. The difference between "disappointment" and "bust" is nothing but semantics.

Last season I put a post up that had Reinhart's numbers at THAT point of his career(I want to say I posted in March) vs other players of his status of being a #2 overall forward picks, and that of statuses of 1st Forwards drafted. Reinhart was on pace with most other #2 Overall Forward picks, but was behind 1st Forwards drafted by a bit. He might not be the best Forward from his draft, but he's for sure more than a serviceable NHL Top 6 Forward at his age.

Has he played like a 1st Forward should be playing, probably not, but he has played like a High Draft Pick, even though he might not have the flashiness that looks like it.

 

[Aladyyn]

Last season I put a post up that had Reinhart's numbers at THAT point of his career(I want to say I posted in March) vs other players of his status of being a #2 overall forward picks, and that of statuses of 1st Forwards drafted. Reinhart was on pace with most other #2 Overall Forward picks, but was behind 1st Forwards drafted by a bit. He might not be the best Forward from his draft, but he's for sure more than a serviceable NHL Top 6 Forward at his age.

Has he played like a 1st Forward should be playing, probably not, but he has played like a High Draft Pick, even though he might not have the flashiness that looks like it.

He's never been put in the position to do that.

 

[joshjull]

Worthless analysis, worthlesser source.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

You sure about that?

Because I'm looking at the numbers and you'd be hard pressed to make that argument.

If you ignore chance and shot metrics, sure.

 

[is the answer jesus]

I don't care if people are aggravated by it, it's a fair question. Daigle is the biggest draft bust in history, and he put up numbers that were significantly better than Reinhart. The question is really about expectations vs. reality. The general consensus is that he's not living up to expectations. The difference between "disappointment" and "bust" is nothing but semantics.

Significantly better? No. Not at all. Especially given that scoring was much higher than it is now. You had several guys over 100 points, guys like Bure were potting 60 in a season. Your comparision is garbage. Saying Sam hasn't lived up to expectations, isn't the same as saying he's a bust at 21 years old, coming off two decent seasons. I can listen to someone who said they expected more from Sam at this point in his career, I thought there would be a bit more offense, but there are more signs that point to him being a steadily improving player than there are that he's a bust after just 2 professional seasons.

 

[joshjull]

If you ignore chance and shot metrics, sure.

"I mean, his replacement has been worse at everything"

Gorges has not been worse than Antipin at everything.

 

[OkimLom]

He's never been put in the position to do that.

1st PP time, time with the best players on the team with easier matchups early in his career? yeah, he has been given that position, but he has produced. Maybe not at the pace, and with the flashiness that some expect out of #2 Overall/1st Forward of the draft but it's been there.

With that said, he needs to start to produce on the scoresheet. Yes it encouraging he's getting chances, but he needs to start cashing in his opportunities.

 

[Aladyyn]

1st PP time, time with the best players on the team with easier matchups early in his career? yeah, he has been given that position, but he has produced. Maybe not at the pace, and with the flashiness that some expect out of #2 Overall/1st Forward of the draft but it's been there.

With that said, he needs to start to produce on the scoresheet. Yes it encouraging he's getting chances, but he needs to start cashing in his opportunities.

Compare opportunities Reinhart got with the opportunities Eichel got. Night and day.

 

[joshjull]

For fun, a comparison of Gorges and Antipin in their 3 games each at ES.

CF%
Antipin - 39.62% (21 for/32 against)
Gorges - 35.19% (19 for/35 against)

SF%
Antipin - 30.77% (8 for/ 18 against)
Gorges - 33.33% (10 for/ 20 against)

SCF%
Antipin - 42.86% (9 for/ 12 against)
Gorges -42.86% (9 for 12 against)

HDCF%
Antipin - 27.7% (3 for / 8 against)
Gorges - 75% (3 for / 1 against)

Both are getting out attempted and out shot by roughly the same margin. They've given up the exact same amount of scoring chances. Where the big difference comes in Gorges does a much better job defending in front of and around the net than Antipin does. Its the one part of his game thats still good. Its why there is a big difference in HDCA between them

Stats from here http://www.naturalstattrick.com/pla...toi=0&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=82&lines=single