Roster Speculation '17-'18: Someone, Somewhere, In Summertime

[struckbyaparkedcar]

I would normally agree with this but their struggles in Roch at the beginning of the year were concerning.

I’d be in a funk too if a bunch of bums cost me an NHL paycheck.

 

[Chainshot]

At least they're showing signs of life even if it took another raft of injuries to get them into the lineup.

 

[joshjull]

Using that approach with Guhle is fine, but Baptiste and Bailey were tailor made for a scoring fourth line and pretty pointlessly overripened.

I have to respectfully disagree. Neither one had shown they had outgrown the AHL prior to the season.

I’d be in a funk too if a bunch of bums cost me an NHL paycheck.

That’s a terrible mentality for a young player who hasn’t proven anything.

 

[joshjull]

I can see Larry becoming the equivalent of our Dave Bolland.

Not enough offense.

Maybe a better hope would be Kruger.

 

[Chainshot]

Well, Larsson's offense is almost Dave Bolland's level right now.

 

[TehDoak]

So in my offseason plans, I'm going off of this template:

XXXX-Eichel-Reinhart
XXXX-O'Reilly-Okposo
XXXX-XXXX-XXXX
XXXX-XXXX-XXXX

Girgensons, Larsson, Bailey, Baptiste, Rodrigues, Wilson, Smith, Fasching, and Regan making up parts of the bottom 2 lines with no one really taking the lead on breaking into the top two lines. I'm assuming Pominville/Moulson will be elsewhere, either via buyout or retirement. I think Rodrigues, Wilson, and Bailey all fit in somewhere.

XXXX-Risto
Scandella-XXXX
XXXX-XXXX

On defense, we have Nelson, McCabe, Bogosian, Antipin, and Guhle. Beaulieu should be the easiest buying in NHL history (under 26 makes his buyout be less than 500k the next two years). Bogosian is a buyout option if he's healthy, but he might be banished to the AHL next year with a buyout in 2019.

XXXXX
Ullmark

I'm not assuming we even qualify Lehner at this point. Too inconsistent to be a NHL starter. My hope is another team wants to give him a shot and we get some sort of return.

In terms of our "core", I think thats a pretty fair assessment.

If I'm making one thing for any additions this summer, it's speed. I like Grabner as a depth UFA signing for this reason, especially if we can get him sheltered minutes on the 3rd line. Outside of Eichel and maybe Guhle/Bailey, this team lacks it throughout the roster. But, speed speed speed please.

 

[joshjull]

@TehDoak

Why are you splitting up ROR/Sam?

 

[joshjull]

In light of the talk about when the farm hands should get looks. Any chance we see CJ Smith this year?

 

[Icicle]

In light of the talk about when the farm hands should get looks. Any chance we see CJ Smith this year?

I don't understand why we haven't. He got hurt, and he's rebounding from the injury, but he looked great in camp and didn't miss a beat in the season. Couldn't ask for him to do any more.

 

[TehDoak]

@TehDoak

Why are you splitting up ROR/Sam?

It's not a hard list, just more of a depth chart.

At this point I'm all for anything that works.

 

[joshjull]

It's not a hard list, just more of a depth chart.

At this point I'm all for anything that works.

Fair enough

 

[Chainshot]

I don't understand why we haven't. He got hurt, and he's rebounding from the injury, but he looked great in camp and didn't miss a beat in the season. Couldn't ask for him to do any more.

4th recall maybe?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

A team trotting out an inefficient roster for over a thousand days kind of contradicts the whole idea that there was cohesion between the front office and staff. The organization also struggled to integrate deadline acquisitions or scale up developing players throughout their tenure. Between 7/1/07 and Lindy's firing, the biggest debate on this board was which of the two you wanted to give a fresh look with a new partner.

Plus, this season has featured many of the worst aspects of the Ruff/Regier years, so I'm not sure why they're getting presented as a standard of competence:

• Maintaining an inefficient forward duo; Roy/Vanek -> Kane/Eichel
• Expecting players to maintain/linearly improve on performance in scaled-up roles; RVA, Sekera, Myers, GGK, FES -> Eichel, O'Reilly, Reinhart
• Overrliance on depth acquisitions in major roles; Montador, Niedermayer, Morrisonn -> Pouliot, Beaulieu
• That overpaid depth player you were fine with at the time, but now the team is left holding the bag on; Rivet, Boyes -> Pominville
• That perpetually injured guy the organization still relies on; Connolly -> Bogosian
• Graduating a random player to a role they washed out of by the end of the season -> Kennedy, Adam -> Griffith
• Over-relying on player development to fill vacant roster spots
• Injuries exposing organizational depth
• Fans pining for insulatory moves that didn't come

When Darcy said he wanted to give Adam a look as a top 6 center, for example, he was given a long look as a top 6 center. The coaches usage matched the GMs words. Actions matched the message.

It seems like you're arguing against this point, but I read through your long response and don't see anything that refutes it. Just a lot of anecdotes that indicate that they weren't successful at their jobs.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

When Darcy said he wanted to give Adam a look as a top 6 center, for example, he was given a long look as a top 6 center. The coaches usage matched the GMs words. Actions matched the message.

It seems like you're arguing against this point, but I read through your long response and don't see anything that refutes it. Just a lot of anecdotes that indicate that they weren't successful at their jobs.

The management groups have the same damn problems. The communication gulf between them either doesn’t matter or doesn’t exist.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Ruff also vowed to give his backups a consistent schedule and turn Vanek into Zetteberg. Lol.

 

[OkimLom]

When Darcy said he wanted to give Adam a look as a top 6 center, for example, he was given a long look as a top 6 center. The coaches usage matched the GMs words. Actions matched the message.

It seems like you're arguing against this point, but I read through your long response and don't see anything that refutes it. Just a lot of anecdotes that indicate that they weren't successful at their jobs.

Darcy also gave Lindy a center collection of Roy, Adam, Ville "2nd best center behind Richards" Leino, Gaustad, McCormick, Szczechura, Hecht, and 20 games of Hodgson. The coach wasn't given much quality support of top 6 center support, especially in the beginning of the season, if the Adam experiment failed. And boy did it fail.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The management groups have the same damn problems. The communication gulf between them either doesn’t matter or doesn’t exist.

I guess I don't understand your point(s) here as they relate to my initial comment. Maybe I'm just slow on the uptake.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Ruff also vowed to give his backups a consistent schedule and turn Vanek into Zetteberg. Lol.

Yeah. He wasn't successful. Doesn't have anything to do with him and Darcy not having a cohesive message. They both truly believed they could do these things -- they both tried and failed.

My point was that Housley isn't even trying the things Botterill is saying he wants to do; likewise with TM/DB.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Darcy also gave Lindy a center collection of Roy, Adam, Ville "2nd best center behind Richards" Leino, Gaustad, McCormick, Szczechura, Hecht, and 20 games of Hodgson. The coach wasn't given much quality support of top 6 center support, especially in the beginning of the season, if the Adam experiment failed. And boy did it fail.

I guess I'm just bad at phrasing things because this has nothing to do with the point of my post.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Yeah. He wasn't successful. Doesn't have anything to do with him and Darcy not having a cohesive message. They both truly believed they could do these things -- they both tried and failed.

My point was that Housley isn't even trying the things Botterill is saying he wants to do; likewise with TM/DB.

Ruff and Regier produced a lot of the same outcomes we’re currently experiencing. To a scary degree.

Either:
- Both groups are equally poor at communication
- The old FO’s “advantage” in communication is not significant enough to move the needle
- Communication does not influence Coach & FO outcomes enough to matter

 

[Husko]

What's the absolute most everyone could stomach in terms of Rochester kids in the forward ranks next year? Say, for example, they decide Rochester was such a success this year that we don't want to lose any of the waiver eligible players and just want to give them all a shot in Buffalo next year...

X-Eichel-Reinhart
X-ROR-Okposo
Baptiste-RodriguesBailey
CJ Smith-Malone-Fasching

Would going with something like that, an all Rochester bottom six, be completely out to lunch?

 

[Sabre the Win]

What's the absolute most everyone could stomach in terms of Rochester kids in the forward ranks next year? Say, for example, they decide Rochester was such a success this year that we don't want to lose any of the waiver eligible players and just want to give them all a shot in Buffalo next year...

X-Eichel-Reinhart
X-ROR-Okposo
Baptiste-RodriguesBailey
CJ Smith-Malone-Fasching

Would going with something like that, an all Rochester bottom six, be completely out to lunch?

I can't wait to see how fast this board sours on all those kids because our short term future isnt living up to expectations and the Sabres sit near the bottom next year if they run those lines.

 

[sincerity0]

What's the absolute most everyone could stomach in terms of Rochester kids in the forward ranks next year? Say, for example, they decide Rochester was such a success this year that we don't want to lose any of the waiver eligible players and just want to give them all a shot in Buffalo next year...

X-Eichel-Reinhart
X-ROR-Okposo
Baptiste-RodriguesBailey
CJ Smith-Malone-Fasching

Would going with something like that, an all Rochester bottom six, be completely out to lunch?

I don’t think that they all make the team. Given their waiver status, Bailey and Baptise will be up full time. E Rod already is.

Smith, Malone and Fasching probably won’t make the team off hand, although I am not sure if waiver status off the top of my head. None of those guys have gotten meaningful games in Buffalo this year.

 

[Husko]

I can't wait to see how fast this board sours on all those kids because our short term future isnt living up to expectations and the Sabres sit near the bottom next year if they run those lines.

I mean take a look at the prospect polls. The board has already soured on most of them.

 

[Husko]

I don’t think that they all make the team. Given their waiver status, Bailey and Baptise will be up full time. E Rod already is.

Smith, Malone and Fasching probably won’t make the team off hand, although I am not sure if waiver status off the top of my head. None of those guys have gotten meaningful games in Buffalo this year.

Fasching will have to go through waivers. Malone is someone I'm speculating to make the team, despite not having eye popping Rochester numbers, like Carrier a few years ago. He brings a very Carrier-esque game. Not to mention, his game is pretty well developed. He's older than Fasching, Bailey, and Baptiste.