Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LXVIII

[Clark Kellogg]

I appreciate many people like Brian Boyle, but I really don’t see him coming back to the NYR. As I remember he was fairly vocal on his way out about not getting the opportunity he wanted. And I believe he even took less from TB (was it TB?) than we offered. Tax benefit or not, that’s still significant. So even if he’s over it and wants to come back, I doubt the Rangers FO is going to be very interested.

If memory serves me he ended up with the same role in Tampa as here.

 

[Kovalev27]

Jack Johnson is not blocking anyone. If a young player beats him out of a job, they can find the $40K in the couch cushions and send him off to wherever.

they won’t. He’s here for a reason and it’s not because he’s better than anyone else. He was signed knowing there were plenty of better players avail. So no that is not true he will play I promise you

 

[Clark Kellogg]

I’d truly be interested in Toews with a little retention if he becomes available. Send them Strome to unite the brothers, one of our decent prospects, a 2nd. I don’t know. Toews, to me, has plenty of value. His last two years have been statistically excellent while being a two-way force and leader. 142 points in his last 152 games, career 57% on face offs. His contract makes him less valuable in a trade, but what he brings is exactly what we need.

If the Rangers were to go this route, why stop there. Take Toews and Kane at 50% and Keith at full price and one of their 3 Goalies and we will send them Strome, DeAngelo, Smith, Kravtsov and Georgiev. If Chicago balks we can through in a sweetener like next years unprotected 1st. Hell, with our teams roster after that trade we will not only win the President’s Trophy but also the cup. This sounds very familiar. If I were to get a vote I would cast it for sticking to the original plan. If we keep on getting sidetracked with can’t resist opportunities (Shattenkirk, Panarin, Trouba...) we will end up getting derailed and all will be for naught.

 

[aufheben]

Been a little MIA recently...what's the latest ITK talk?

Sorry, Trouba is still on the team.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

They absolutely do not have “plenty of insulation” throughout the lineup. Grouping Lemieux, Howden, and Chytil into your argument is as big a reach as you can make...claiming those kids are “insulation” aka vets when they themselves are still trying to figure out their own way in this league, their own identity. Even Buchnevich and DeAngelo are a reach. Those two are 24-25 years old and were just discovering what they can be in the NHL over the last 2 years, especially DeAngelo. So you are left with is, being more realistic, Kreider, Zibanejad, Panarin, Strome, Trouba, Smith, and Johnson. That latter two might not even be regulars halfway through the season, maybe even sooner than that at least one of them isn’t. But even so thats SEVEN players in your entire lineup that are actual vets to breakup the youth and provide experience. And then if you break it down even further, you look at a guy like Strome who is terrible away from the puck, terrible in his own end, and terrible on the faceoff dot.

Management wants to take the next steps forward towards contention. Part of that process is creating good structure and a winning culture, which requires the right players in the right roles. No, Morgan Barron should not be on your 3rd line to start. So is it really good for his development to be getting limited minutes on the 4th line? Miller has a ways to go with his defensive game. He is going to just jump to the NHL, no problem? Oh well if they dont then we’ll just go to our “backup plan” of Jack Johnson, Kevin Rooney, Mackenzie Blackwood, etc., more NHL/AHL tweeners. And then what happens? We fall short in games or towards the end of the season because we didnt have a strong enough 3rd line, let alone a 4th line. We didnt have a solid faceoff guy to win key draws, besides just having Zibanejad. We didnt have quality PKers. We didnt have enough defensively responsible forwards to help the D. We ended up rolling 3 lines and not matching up well.

We have so much youth. It is ok to add 1-2 more proven NHL vets. Let Gauthier/Barron/Kravtsov/Miller/Lundkvist/Reunanen force the Rangers hand to move out Strome or say a Granlund who would be on a short term deal. Let them develop the right way. They dont need to be force fed minutes, it has only been detriment for Howden. It didnt work for Lias Andersson. And it really hasnt done much for Chytil. Look how long it took for DeAngelo, Buchnevich, and even Zibanejad to really find themselves. Whats the rush with our secondary tier talent beyond Kakko and Lafreniere? No one is advocating signing Granlund or Haula or whomever longterm.

Here's a newsflash for you.... we aren't contending until our kids are ready, Granlund, Haula aren't changing that. This year is about getting to playoffs if they can, and letting the kids get experience. If they keep bringing guys in to replace them it never happens. I don't know why people say they want a rebuild but have no patience for it when it actually happens. You have to see what the kids got before you make the next moves. Some may not work out some may surprise us this year but it's a year in which guys like Kakko, Chytil, Lemieux, Lindgren,Fox,Deangelo etc all have to be given more responsibilities to see if they are capable of handling it. Its not a cup year, a huge success at this point in the build would be to make playoffs and possibly win a round, its about providing opportunity to the kids to grow within a club that has enough star players to insulate them.

 

[Alluckks]

Jack Johnson is not blocking anyone. If a young player beats him out of a job, they can find the $40K in the couch cushions and send him off to wherever.

Jack Johnson is blocking kids from playing the same way that Brett Howden blocked Lias Andersson from playing

(Hint: it isn't blocking, but it fuels a narrative for the crowd that treats this forum like their depression diary)

 

[RGY]

Here's a newsflash for you.... we aren't contending until our kids are ready, Granlund, Haula aren't changing that. This year is about getting to playoffs if they can, and letting the kids get experience. If they keep bringing guys in to replace them it never happens. I don't know why people say they want a rebuild but have no patience for it when it actually happens. You have to see what the kids got before you make the next moves. Some may not work out some may surprise us this year but it's a year in which guys like Kakko, Chytil, Lemieux, Lindgren,Fox,Deangelo etc all have to be given more responsibilities to see if they are capable of handling it. Its not a cup year, a huge success at this point in the build would be to make playoffs and possibly win a round, its about providing opportunity to the kids to grow within a club that has enough star players to insulate them.

I never said the idea was to “contend” for a cup next year. I said Management wants to take steps forward in that direction. No news flash needed.

They have 8 players who are going to be representing the quench for youth in the lineup. Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil, Gauthier, Lemieux, Howden, Fox, Lindgren. 8. And you are complaining that people are trying to replace who? Who is Granlund/Haula replacing? You mean making unproven, inexperienced kids like Barron, Miller, etc, earn their way? And earn their way in the proper role to develop rather than sticking them in roles with limited minutes AND right next to other kids who are trying to figure out how to stick in the NHL in their own right? You talk about having enough stars to insulate...who is playing in the bottom 6 and bottom D pair to insulate them? Are Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider all taking reduced minutes and roles to insulate the kids? No, so how about bringing in a vet like Haula/Granlund to break things up in the bottom 6. Actual quality NHL players with a pedigree much more significant than the Blackwoods and Rooneys of the world. Why are you crying foul? We arent providing enough opportunity already? There arent enough kids in the lineup for your liking? Why are we squeezing more in? Is there a certain minimum that needs to be playing to keep our “Rebuild” status as active?

And not for nothing, getting Kakko at #2 and Lafreniere at #1 speeds things up a bit. These kids are on cheap ELCs. One of the first things JG/JD said after being eliminated by Carolina was they need to get tougher to play against. Clearly they didnt see that in what they had. Right now, other than Lafreniere, they are walking the same forward group out there. And being “tougher” to play against isnt necessarily a physical thing...they were not deep enough. They did not have the forward depth to compete. They were too young on the 3rd and 4th lines, that or they had crap AHL level vets filling in.

Still a lot of time left before the puck drops. Strome’s arbitration hearing needs to happen first before the next move.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Team was too easy to play against and yet they Fast walk over a matter or pennies and didn't replace him.

You can't go into a season with your replacement for Fast being a teenaged, pure skill player. They need a solid veteran who can do the things Fast did. More than one, ideally. Lots of people (not Rangers fans, but around the league) are penciling in the Rangers as a contender because they added Lafreniere but we just become younger, more reliant on fancy skill play and even less competent at playing winning hockey. Hoping Howden and Gauthier become those guys next season doesn't sound like a good plan.

 

[egelband]

If memory serves me he ended up with the same role in Tampa as here.

You’re right. Which just made it all the more puzzling and kind of uncomfortable. Thus I doubt we see BB2 here.

 

[huerter]

Sorry, Trouba is still on the team.

The ITKers said getting him a partner was priority 1. 2020 man, ya can't predict it.

 

[Vitto79]

Team was too easy to play against and yet they Fast walk over a matter or pennies and didn't replace him.

You can't go into a season with your replacement for Fast being a teenaged, pure skill player. They need a solid veteran who can do the things Fast did. More than one, ideally. Lots of people (not Rangers fans, but around the league) are penciling in the Rangers as a contender because they added Lafreniere but we just become younger, more reliant on fancy skill play and even less competent at playing winning hockey. Hoping Howden and Gauthier become those guys next season doesn't sound like a good plan.

If they were trying to win this year yes but they are not. They clearly don’t want to block Gauthier , Lemieux , Howden ..... gotta see if they are worth keeping

 

[n8]

Lol. Seriously though...it seems like the ITKers were keeping us in the loop up until the offseason actually started and then its been dead quiet. Seems kinda backwards.

Seriously. It's all dog show talk right now. Donnie is livid. Get with the program.

 

[RGY]

If they were trying to win this year yes but they are not. They clearly don’t want to block Gauthier , Lemieux , Howden ..... gotta see if they are worth keeping

But they already likely have spots. Starting spots. So no they arent being completely blocked. And really none of those 3 have done anything to warrant being on the top 3 lines. Gauthier was buried in Charlotte last year. You give him full time minutes on the 4th line and show the org they can eventually move on from Strome and/or Buchnevich. Or the veteran they bring in on the short term deal, they trade at the deadline or let walk after the season and Gauthier can slide up to 3RW.

We all know how David Quinn coaches. Is it possible Lafreniere starts in the top 6? Sure its possible, buts its much more likely he starts on the 3rd line just like Kakko did.

So right now you are looking at a bottom 6 of:

Lafreniere-Chytil-XXXX
Lemmy-Howden-Gauthier

Maybe Gauthier does get his look on the 3rd line depending on who they can bring in. I think Granlund/Boyle/Haula are the best guys to look at because they can play both center and wing. So if Chytil continues to be mediocre at the center position they can move him to wing and put the vet at center. If Gauthier shows he deserves more ice time, you slide the vet to the 4th line. If Howden continues to be just absolutely awful at the Center position, you slide him to wing or scratch him, and you put the Vet at 4C or promote Barron. You need that vet piece in there imo, to have flexibility and a presence. You put another kid on that 3rd line and roll out a bottom 6 of all kids and that just screams a nightmare of shifts getting pinned in their own end.

We have plenty of kids getting opportunity in the NHL. More than many other teams. And more that are talented with higher ceilings than other teams. You are going to be able to find someone at a discount who’s output will outweigh the money you spent and provide so much value.

 

[Vitto79]

But they already likely have spots. Starting spots. So no they arent being completely blocked. And really none of those 3 have done anything to warrant being on the top 3 lines. Gauthier was buried in Charlotte last year. You give him full time minutes on the 4th line and show the org they can eventually move on from Strome and/or Buchnevich. Or the veteran they bring in on the short term deal, they trade at the deadline or let walk after the season and Gauthier can slide up to 3RW.

We all know how David Quinn coaches. Is it possible Lafreniere starts in the top 6? Sure its possible, buts its much more likely he starts on the 3rd line just like Kakko did.

So right now you are looking at a bottom 6 of:

Lafreniere-Chytil-XXXX
Lemmy-Howden-Gauthier

Maybe Gauthier does get his look on the 3rd line depending on who they can bring in. I think Granlund/Boyle/Haula are the best guys to look at because they can play both center and wing. So if Chytil continues to be mediocre at the center position they and move him to wing and put the vet at center. If Gauthier shows he deserves more ice time, you slide the vet to the 4th line. If Howden continues to be just absolutely awful at the Center position, you slide him to wing or scratch him, and you put the Vet at 4C or promote Howden. You need that vet piece in there imo, to have flexibility and a presence. You put another kid on that 3rd line and roll out a bottom 6 of all kids and that just screams a nightmare of shifts getting pinned in their own end.

We have plenty of kids getting opportunity in the NHL. More than many other teams. And more that are talented with higher ceilings than other teams. You are going to be able to find someone at a discount who’s output will outweigh the money you spent and provide so much value.

Will they bring in a cheap ufa likeky
Rooney is going to play in the PK and 4th line though

Just saying the goal this year is to see who’s a real NHLer in the bottom 6 ....the cap is super tight till next year so as a fan we have to understand it’s another build year.

They likely are close to the playoffs still depending on how Shesterkin does

 

[RGY]

Will they bring in a cheap ufa likeky
Rooney is going to play in the PK and 4th line though

Just saying the goal this year is to see who’s a real NHLer in the bottom 6 ....the cap is super tight till next year so as a fan we have to understand it’s another build year.

They likely are close to the playoffs still depending on how Shesterkin does

Rooney doesnt do it for me. He is 27 years old and never played more than 49 games in a season. There is nothing there that qualifies him as a “proven veteran.” He is a 13th forward. Very much like how PDG was.

Lets assume Lafreniere is a surefire NHLer that we dont have to include as a kid in the bottom 6 needing to show what he is at the NHL level. Lets then say they sign Granlund or Boyler for 3RW or 4RW. The 4 others spots being taken up by Chytil, Gauthier, Lemieux, Howden is not enough for everyone? Thats not enough opportunity? I mean thats just kinda ludicrous.

This isnt simply a build year for them. That status is transitioning to playoff team while their youth is still growing. But with a full year of Igor and each kid being a year older, I expect this team to be a playoff team. So rather than send out your kids for another ass kicking in the 1st round, maybe mix in a quality veteran player or two to make them deeper and tougher to play against?

 

[Vitto79]

Rooney doesnt do it for me. He is 27 years old and never played more than 49 games in a season. There is nothing there that qualifies him as a “proven veteran.” He is a 13th forward. Very much like how PDG was.

Lets assume Lafreniere is a surefire NHLer that we dont have to include as a kid in the bottom 6 needing to show what he is at the NHL level. Lets then say they sign Granlund or Boyler for 3RW or 4RW. The 4 others spots being taken up by Chytil, Gauthier, Lemieux, Howden is not enough for everyone? Thats not enough opportunity? I mean thats just kinda ludicrous.

This isnt simply a build year for them. That status is transitioning to playoff team while their youth is still growing. But with a full year of Igor and each kid being a year older, I expect this team to be a playoff team. So rather than send out your kids for another ass kicking in the 1st round, maybe mix in a quality veteran player or two to make them deeper and tougher to play against?

In theory yes I understand what we would like to see as fans I just think reality is Rooney and DiGiuseppe are the cheap 12/13 to start . They likely give Barron and Kravtsov a call up half way though the year

If the teams doing well they can always trade for a vet or pluck someone off waivers

The wild card is if Strome goes then cap space opens . Right now I’m sure they are trying to squeeze Strome and Lemieux in under a reasonable cap hit they gives them a little space . Easier said than done in this Covid NHL

 

[charliemurphy]

Is anyone else attending the virtual Chalk Talk w/JD, Lafreniere and Schneider on the 26th?
I was thinking of coming up with some softball questions if I get a turn to ask... any ideas for questions you crazy kids?

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

Is anyone else attending the virtual Chalk Talk w/JD, Lafreniere and Schneider on the 26th?
I was thinking of coming up with some softball questions if I get a turn to ask... any ideas for questions you crazy kids?

Was it sam's onset of blindness that drove you out of the announcers box and into management?

 

[Richard Banger]

Is anyone else attending the virtual Chalk Talk w/JD, Lafreniere and Schneider on the 26th?
I was thinking of coming up with some softball questions if I get a turn to ask... any ideas for questions you crazy kids?

I’d ask Laf what is the reason behind picking #13.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I never said the idea was to “contend” for a cup next year. I said Management wants to take steps forward in that direction. No news flash needed.

They have 8 players who are going to be representing the quench for youth in the lineup. Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil, Gauthier, Lemieux, Howden, Fox, Lindgren. 8. And you are complaining that people are trying to replace who? Who is Granlund/Haula replacing? You mean making unproven, inexperienced kids like Barron, Miller, etc, earn their way? And earn their way in the proper role to develop rather than sticking them in roles with limited minutes AND right next to other kids who are trying to figure out how to stick in the NHL in their own right? You talk about having enough stars to insulate...who is playing in the bottom 6 and bottom D pair to insulate them? Are Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider all taking reduced minutes and roles to insulate the kids? No, so how about bringing in a vet like Haula/Granlund to break things up in the bottom 6. Actual quality NHL players with a pedigree much more significant than the Blackwoods and Rooneys of the world. Why are you crying foul? We arent providing enough opportunity already? There arent enough kids in the lineup for your liking? Why are we squeezing more in? Is there a certain minimum that needs to be playing to keep our “Rebuild” status as active?

And not for nothing, getting Kakko at #2 and Lafreniere at #1 speeds things up a bit. These kids are on cheap ELCs. One of the first things JG/JD said after being eliminated by Carolina was they need to get tougher to play against. Clearly they didnt see that in what they had. Right now, other than Lafreniere, they are walking the same forward group out there. And being “tougher” to play against isnt necessarily a physical thing...they were not deep enough. They did not have the forward depth to compete. They were too young on the 3rd and 4th lines, that or they had crap AHL level vets filling in.

Still a lot of time left before the puck drops. Strome’s arbitration hearing needs to happen first before the next move.

How about we let the build continue instead of taking ice time from younger players? Barron and miller don't have to play, thats why we signed johnson for d and the other guys for the bottom 6 if they don't work out. I have no idea why anyone would add a good not star player ie granlund Haula to an average roster and expect much different than if you just gave those minutes to Chytil. Ive been saying it all offseason that everyone here had too high of expectations for what management would do this offseason and that we'd basically show up with the same team because thats how builds work, you need to give the kids minutes to see if they are what you think they are and if they are great, if not then we need to adjust then. Adding the guys we are mentioning arent much if any better than the guys currently holding that spot, they aren’t gonna change this teams direction especially if they are on one or two year deals. Its not happening, not with this team at this time.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Rooney doesnt do it for me. He is 27 years old and never played more than 49 games in a season. There is nothing there that qualifies him as a “proven veteran.” He is a 13th forward. Very much like how PDG was.

Lets assume Lafreniere is a surefire NHLer that we dont have to include as a kid in the bottom 6 needing to show what he is at the NHL level. Lets then say they sign Granlund or Boyler for 3RW or 4RW. The 4 others spots being taken up by Chytil, Gauthier, Lemieux, Howden is not enough for everyone? Thats not enough opportunity? I mean thats just kinda ludicrous.

This isnt simply a build year for them. That status is transitioning to playoff team while their youth is still growing. But with a full year of Igor and each kid being a year older, I expect this team to be a playoff team. So rather than send out your kids for another ass kicking in the 1st round, maybe mix in a quality veteran player or two to make them deeper and tougher to play against?

We have lots of veteran players already. The short playoff we had with Howden, Chytil, Kakko, Fox this year will prove invaluable for the build, if some of those guys are sitting on the bench for Boyle or some other guy who isn’t part of the future it doesn't help us at all, unless you believe we are a Boyle away from the cup and you've already acknowledged we aren't, so give the kids playoff experience behind Kreider, Panarin, Zib, Buch, Strome, Trouba etc, it will help down the line.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Is anyone else attending the virtual Chalk Talk w/JD, Lafreniere and Schneider on the 26th?
I was thinking of coming up with some softball questions if I get a turn to ask... any ideas for questions you crazy kids?

will Kreider be moved to the right side? JD

Do you see yourself as a career center? Laf

Will the AHL shadow the NHL start? JD

 

[NYSPORTS]

Team was too easy to play against and yet they Fast walk over a matter or pennies and didn't replace him.

You can't go into a season with your replacement for Fast being a teenaged, pure skill player. They need a solid veteran who can do the things Fast did. More than one, ideally. Lots of people (not Rangers fans, but around the league) are penciling in the Rangers as a contender because they added Lafreniere but we just become younger, more reliant on fancy skill play and even less competent at playing winning hockey. Hoping Howden and Gauthier become those guys next season doesn't sound like a good plan.

Two things

1- I get the feeling Carolina is becoming the Bruins. Adding Fast will be a headache. They’re a good team and their kids are maturing.

2 - the Rangers might take a step back. Yes, they actually got younger. With so many kids i think they need to push them into development and a Fast would be taking ice time takes away from that development.

Keeping Fast would have made the team better yet i’m not sure keeping him would have the difference. Yes, Carolina took a step forward and the Rangers took a step back IMO. I think Carolina is primed to surge while the Rangers are at least a year away. I think two years and beyond we’re going to be in really good shape.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Is anyone else attending the virtual Chalk Talk w/JD, Lafreniere and Schneider on the 26th?
I was thinking of coming up with some softball questions if I get a turn to ask... any ideas for questions you crazy kids?

I would so how do we attend??? how much is it lol?? info please? it is on my birthday and day off

 

[mas0764]

This is out of the blue, but I'm just spitballing.

I wonder if you could swipe Nolan Patrick out of Philadelphia for cheap (ish).

Seems like he may have been passed by Frost in their minds.