Proposal: ROR talk - pick which deal you prefer

[mpp9]

Yeah, you could go UFA or trade other assets. It's not Maatta or nothing, like some are making this out to be. As far as Callahan, people will complain about the price, but if I was willing to give up prime assets to obtain O'Reilly at a high cap hit, I'd look into Callahan first. He's not as good as O'Reilly, but he fills a need on this team.

They're not anywhere near the same caliber of player. ROR is elite or damn close to it. Callahan will only get worse and isn't exactly a guy with a ton of skill or size.

The argument for moving Maatta is that you have Martin/Letang to hold things down on the top pairing. Scuds or another vet on your middle pair with Despres (who should be given a shot with Maatta out anyway). And plenty of depth behind them to fill out the D corps.

To fill a hole on Sid's RW longterm, it's worth it IMO.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Yes we need Crosby's 40g scorer . That being said, we don't need more playoffs choker on the team (ala Callahan). I really think that it was stupid to broke the Kunitz-Malkin-Neal line because it was the best line in the league and DB NEVER retried it when Crosby returned (Thanks Bylsma). So it means that Crosby needs a forchecking forward and a skilled 40g scorers , one of them has to be able to protect Sid. It's worthless to sign a 4th liner Goon to protect Crosby , we need someone who can respond immediatly not 5-6 shift after.

I think that the forechecking forward as to be Kesler (ex Selke winner who can fight)
To get him, we can trade Sutter + 22th + Dumoulin.

The best 40g scorer (Crosby's neal) that we can get is O'reilly (I think he can score 40g if he plays with Crosby and Kesler)
To get him we can trade Letang for O'reilly
Because Sutter is gone, we can sign Goc at 2.5M who is a good Defensive 3C
To replace Letang, we can sign Niskanen at 5M
Obviously we need cap space to sign other players so we have to trade Scuderi for a pick and buyout Adams

Now we get something like this:

FORWARDS
Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($6.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Marcel Goc ($2.500m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
XXXXX / Joe Vitale ($0.750m) / XXXXX
DEFENSEMEN
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Matt Niskanen ($5.000m)
Simon Despres ($1.100m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
BUYOUTS
Craig Adams ($0.233m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,466,667; BONUSES: $307,500
CAP SPACE (18-man roster): $5,633,333



We have around 5.5M to sign 4th liners and a defensemen if you guys don't want to start playing/trusting most of our good rookies.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

Well then why not just say you'd prefer to deal Pouliot over Maatta. Was it really that hard?

Are you trying to have a real discussion, or are you just being an ass? Nobody asked me if I'd rather trade Pouliot, although I made that pretty damn clear in my other posts.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

They're not anywhere near the same caliber of player. ROR is elite or damn close to it. Callahan will only get worse and isn't exactly a guy with a ton of skill or size.

The argument for moving Maatta is that you have Martin/Letang to hold things down on the top pairing. Scuds or another vet on your middle pair with Despres (who should be given a shot with Maatta out anyway). And plenty of depth behind them to fill out the D corps.

To fill a hole on Sid's RW longterm, it's worth it IMO.

Calling O'Reilly elite is a stretch at this point. He's a better player than Callahan, for sure. But you'd give up less to get Callahan, and I'd be ok with that vs giving up Maatta and Sutter for O'Reilly, then dumping 7 mill in cap space into him. Neither situation is ideal.

 

[mpp9]

Calling O'Reilly elite is a stretch at this point. He's a better player than Callahan, for sure. But you'd give up less to get Callahan, and I'd be ok with that vs giving up Maatta and Sutter for O'Reilly, then dumping 7 mill in cap space into him. Neither situation is ideal.

ROR has outproduced him, is 6 years younger and a superior defensive player. I think he's right on the cusp of being one of the best two way forwards in the game. Bergeron level for sure.

And like you said, it's not like we can't dump a salary to make it work. Ray Shero giving Pascal Dupuis a 4 year deal with a NTC should not stand in our way of getting Sid a true top line winger.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

ROR has outproduced him, is 6 years younger and a superior defensive player. I think he's right on the cusp of being one of the best two way forwards in the game. Bergeron level for sure.

And like you said, it's not like we can't dump a salary to make it work. Ray Shero giving Pascal Dupuis a 4 year deal with a NTC should not stand in our way of getting Sid a true top line winger.

Haha. The idea of guys like Scuderi and Dupuis standing in the way of getting our 1st line winger. . . Who would have thought.

I'm not arguing on Callahan vs OReilly, because it isn't debatable. O'Reilly is a better player. I think it's jumping the gun to call O'Reilly elite, though you could call him one of the best two way players this season.

I just don't want to lose Despres and Maatta, who I think will end up being the two best defensive prospects Shero drafted, for a 7 million dollar contract when we already are giving Letang, Crosby, and Malkin 7 million. If we're paying players that kind of money, we have to keep our cost-controlled contracts. You maximize that by keeping guys like Maatta, not Dumoulin or Samuelsson who aren't proven to be NHL ready.

 

[DearDiary]

What about Kulemin?

My thinking is moving Kunitz down and running the old KMN line.

Cammellari/Callahan-Crosby-Stewart
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

Though I would prefer

Neal-Crosby-Stewart
Kunitz-Malkin-Bennett

Kulemin would be a good addition, but I'd rather have Kunitz with Malkin if possible. I'm not a fan of keeping Malkin and Neal together, they defer to each other too much and it brings down their skillset

 

[mpp9]

Haha. The idea of guys like Scuderi and Dupuis standing in the way of getting our 1st line winger. . . Who would have thought.

I'm not arguing on Callahan vs OReilly, because it isn't debatable. O'Reilly is a better player. I think it's jumping the gun to call O'Reilly elite, though you could call him one of the best two way players this season.

I just don't want to lose Despres and Maatta, who I think will end up being the two best defensive prospects Shero drafted, for a 7 million dollar contract when we already are giving Letang, Crosby, and Malkin 7 million. If we're paying players that kind of money, we have to keep our cost-controlled contracts. You maximize that by keeping guys like Maatta, not Dumoulin or Samuelsson who aren't proven to be NHL ready.

Agree that moving Maatta for a stud winger on his ELC would be ideal. Keeps us cap neutral and gives us a longterm solution.

Maybe such a deal is out there.

 

[T1K]

Agree that moving Maatta for a stud winger on his ELC would be ideal. Keeps us cap neutral and gives us a longterm solution.

Maybe such a deal is out there.

It depends who you'd consider a stud winger. Maybe Maatta+Sutter+1st for Drouin? (Probably a stretch). Maatta for Palat is probably fair I'd guess too. I recall San Jose fans saying that Maatta for Hertl was fair, but neither team would do it.

My whole thing is that of all of our d prospects, Maatta has proven the most at the professional level which is why I want to keep him. I don't think trading Letang is a good idea because Martin is getting up there in age. I think that there are some solid wingers available in free agency that are huge improvements from what we currently have. Plus, I'd prefer not giving up premier assets if we don't have to.

Pouliot+Sutter+1st is a pretty attractive package. I know we'd like to keep the 1st, but realistically that pick won't help us for a few years and it's far from a sure bet even then.

 

[Shady Machine]

Are you trying to have a real discussion, or are you just being an ass? Nobody asked me if I'd rather trade Pouliot, although I made that pretty damn clear in my other posts.

I was trying to have a real discussion. You shot down the trade ideas and were being very vague. I asked what you wanted to do and you didn't answer. It took a back and forth and me inferring to understand what you're actually talking about.

Anyway, I don't really want to trade Despres or Maatta, but I think our priority needs to be finding Sid his winger. Maatta has significant value around the league and keeping Despres around along with Dumo, Harrington, Pouliot gives us a strong D core moving forward. I just believe trading Maatta instead of Letang or Neal allows us to lose the least off the roster now, while maximizing our return.

That said, if moving Letang or some combo of Pouliot+ gets it done, then so be it.

 

[Klifton]

I don't see a deal for ROR being worth the cost. The only way he would be available is if the Avs can't afford him. That would mean north of 6m per. They are not going to be trading his rights regardless, he is a RFA, so they will qualify him and then let him dangle. If someone offers him what he wants, (which in this scenario is 6M+), and the Avs don't match, then the compensation is a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd round pick. The cost is too high for the Pens, IMO.

 

[Zbynek]

They're not anywhere near the same caliber of player. ROR is elite or damn close to it. Callahan will only get worse and isn't exactly a guy with a ton of skill or size.

I'm not crazy about Callahan, and I'm a huge fan of ROR and trading big assets to get him, but we as Penguins fans should not go into this situation with that mindset. He's not an elite player, he's just really well-rounded and fits a lot of different needs.

 

[Klifton]

I'm not crazy about Callahan, and I'm a huge fan of ROR and trading big assets to get him, but we as Penguins fans should not go into this situation with that mindset. He's not an elite player, he's just really well-rounded and fits a lot of different needs.

I agree ROR fits a LOT better than Callahan. That being said, I don't like the price that either of those two would have. If there were a way to mitigate the cost of ROR, say, making trades to replace the picks we would have to surrender, then I would be in favor of submitting an offer sheet for him.

 

[iFishyHD]

If you buyout Adams your wasting cap. Bury him the AHL or trade him as a PKer. Seriously is just worthless. Its 1 year for 700k its not 2M.

 

[Riptide]

I'd rather give up the 1st than Maatta.

And if it's only our 1st, then I agree. But those deals won't just be our first. It'll be a prospect (Despres or worse DP) and our 1st. In which case, I move Maatta.

 

[Darth Vitale]

If O'Reilly came here, it wouldn't be as a 3C. Not that I'm advocating this, because we don't need his contract. I can see why he's garnering legitimate attention on this board, though.

Their defense is awful. EJ isn't a #1. Hejda isn't going to last much longer. Barrie is hardly a proven top 4 guy. And they have a list of guys we'd waive beyond that.

ROR played his best hockey with Duchene this year. He's a winger if brought here.

Sorry I'm late with this, but yinz didn't read my post correctly. I was talking about Stastny in the 3C slot -- he's the UFA. The traditional logic goes "Oh, well they have to get rid of one -- ROR or Stastny", but they don't and they won't IMO. That's my main point. We're not getting either one although either could go a long way to improve our depth. The only thing I agree with is if a trade were made, one of our big salaries would have to be involved. My preference is Scuderi.

True HFB Trade Style:

Avs get: Scuderi, Nisky Rights, Dumoulin (defensive problems solved!!)
Pens get: Stastny / ROR

 

[Klifton]

Sorry I'm late with this, but yinz didn't read my post correctly. I was talking about Stastny in the 3C slot -- he's the UFA. The traditional logic goes "Oh, well they have to get rid of one -- ROR or Stastny", but they don't and they won't IMO. That's my main point. We're not getting either one although either could go a long way to improve our depth. The only thing I agree with is if a trade were made, one of our big salaries would have to be involved. My preference is Scuderi.

True HFB Trade Style:

Avs get: Scuderi, Nisky Rights, Dumoulin (defensive problems solved!!)
Pens get: Stastny / ROR

Might as well take ROR off of this, no way he gets moved, at least not to Pit. If they can't resign him they will qualify him and let someone submit an offer sheet. They know someone will give him the 6M+ he wants, and that gets them the picks. And those are a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd in a very deep draft. And the Pens can't get him in FA anyway. Not unless we get our 2015 3rd round pick back from Florida. We gave it to them in the Goc trade. That pretty much takes us out of the running right there because you can only give your own original picks as compensation. Simply put, the Avs are not trading his rights, and we can't submit an offer sheet unless we get that pick back. Just go ahead and consider ROR to be unattainable.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Might as well take ROR off of this, no way he gets moved, at least not to Pit.

Yer preachin to the choir, friend. He's not getting moved at all IMO. Neither is Stastny. I mean it's possible but they've got a really good F setup right now that rivals the best in the league in terms of depth. Just need to get some more years under some of those young guys' belts and they're going to be lethal.

They can shore up their D with a couple good FA like Nisky and a more stay-at-home guy, and be better than they were at the end of last year. And that's good enough to win in the playoffs. They've got $25-26M in space. They're not moving those guys.

That's what I've been trying to get across in this thread.

 

[Michael8771*]

Here's a trade I'd like to see, not that Letang fans will like it, but I think it could work for both teams.

Letang and Adams (yes they have to take him)

for

E. Johnson, Mcginn and a 2hd rounder.

We add depth upfront and still have a capable PP rearguard and minute eater with Johnson. They potentially get a guy who can play and excel with the young Colorado forwards for many years to come.

 

[Klifton]

Salvaging the ROR talks?

You know, it just occurred to me that there may be a way to get ROR. If we make a deal for them to sign him, and then trade him to us. He gets the 6M+ deal he wants with the understanding that he will be traded. And we send them Letang in exchange. Not sure how I feel about this, but it may be the only way a deal can be had. Now, there may be other assets that would have to be in play for this to happen, but it could maybe be worked out. Maybe we throw in Bennett and they add E. Johnson? They get the better D man, we get the better forward. What do you guys think, go easy on me please, just brainstorming here.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

Here's a trade I'd like to see, not that Letang fans will like it, but I think it could work for both teams.

Letang and Adams (yes they have to take him)

for

E. Johnson, Mcginn and a 2hd rounder.

We add depth upfront and still have a capable PP rearguard and minute eater with Johnson. They potentially get a guy who can play and excel with the young Colorado forwards for many years to come.

Colorado literally just re-signed McGinn.

 

[zero8771]

Neal is gone. Couldn't find out where. But he's gone

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

Neal is gone. Couldn't find out where. But he's gone

As in, he's packed his bags and sold his house?

 

[Klifton]

Neal is gone. Couldn't find out where. But he's gone

As in traded? or missing? have you checked under the sofa cushions?

 

[Klifton]

Has anyone found anything? Is anyone there? Toss an info starved Nebraskan some facts here, someone has to have a link or something.