Post-Game Talk: Rookie Tournament 2015

[Bileur]

Another strength for Ben Harpur that I didn't know is that he can play either side which gives him an advantage over others I think. Defensively because he is big & plays with an edge which is what the Sens wanted to see more of from him is that he can rough people up in front of his own net & when it gets ugly he goes in there & puts an end to it, somewhat like Boro. You may not have liked what you saw from him in the tournament & my guess is you may never like him because he doesn't have the flash & smooth skating of a Chabot or Wikstrand.

Other than Chabot though IMO I thought Hapur was the next best defenceman on the team because Wikstrand hardly played. Carlisle, Rumble & Crawford didn't impress me & Rutkowski was alright. Harpur is a big guy & a bit clumsy at times & needs to work harder at getting the puck off his stick quicker but he is hard to miss. He's definitely a project but I think he will surprise a few people with his overall skill set, he could be a young Chara but he could also be a young Hal Gill, who knows.

This is what Randy Lee had to say about him.

http://senators.nhl.com/club/blogpost.htm?id=41210&navid=DL|OTT|home

While his game isn't suited to the new NHL Hal Gill wouldn't be a bad outcome for a 4th rounder. I'd take 1100 games and a cup.

A more mobile version would be awesome.

 

[God Says No]

Another strength for Ben Harpur that I didn't know is that he can play either side which gives him an advantage over others I think. Defensively because he is big & plays with an edge which is what the Sens wanted to see more of from him is that he can rough people up in front of his own net & when it gets ugly he goes in there & puts an end to it, somewhat like Boro. You may not have liked what you saw from him in the tournament & my guess is you may never like him because he doesn't have the flash & smooth skating of a Chabot or Wikstrand.

Not true. I never expected Harpur to be a great skater. But what I did expect was better defensive play. Take out the skating aspect from Chabot and Harpur, and Chabot was far better defensively than Harpur. Better stick and positioning. I didn't see him using his size effectively either. He was ok, but I expected more. Like I said, currently he looks closer to a Sdao (career AHLer) than a Gryba (bottom pairing NHL D). Although that could change in the next couple years. It's all up to Harpur.

Other than Chabot though IMO I thought Hapur was the next best defenceman on the team because Wikstrand hardly played. Carlisle, Rumble & Crawford didn't impress me & Rutkowski was alright. Harpur is a big guy & a bit clumsy at times & needs to work harder at getting the puck off his stick quicker but he is hard to miss. He's definitely a project but I think he will surprise a few people with his overall skill set, he could be a young Chara but he could also be a young Hal Gill, who knows.

Yip, he was the second best defenceman, but that's not saying much when you look who was there. And especially since Wikstrand went down so early in the tourney. I'm sorry, but you can't put Harpur into the impressed category no matter how you slice it. He was underwhelming.

This is what Randy Lee had to say about him.

http://senators.nhl.com/club/blogpost.htm?id=41210&navid=DL|OTT|home

Yip, expected from Lee. He had all or most of positive remarks about every player.

 

[BonkTastic]

Yip, expected from Lee. He had all or most of positive remarks about every player.

Expected from anyone employed by an NHL team about guys in their system.

Most teams don't badmouth their players/prospects to the media.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Where can i find the stats for the tourney?

 

[God Says No]

Expected from anyone employed by an NHL team about guys in their system.

Most teams don't badmouth their players/prospects to the media.

Yeah, expected. I wasn't disputing that.

 

[Micklebot]

Expected from anyone employed by an NHL team about guys in their system.

Most teams don't badmouth their players/prospects to the media.

Interesting to note that he spoke only of Harpur from an offensive perspective. In fact, he really didn't talk about any of the D much from a defensive perspective other than Chabot getting back when he made a turnover and Rutkowski battling and being out there to protect leads.

 

[Bileur]

Expected from anyone employed by an NHL team about guys in their system.

Most teams don't badmouth their players/prospects to the media.

Still, his remarks about some guys were so glowing that you could tell they had a better evaluation. For instance, his evaluation of McCormick was clearly very favorable.

 

[Xspyrit]

Sort that list by GF% and you'll see he drops right to the bottom of the barrel. Preventing goals is great, but if you don't create anything, it's at best neutral. Granted, he's been asked to play a pest/defensive role, but he's done little to assure himself a spot imo with guys like Pageau and Lazar showing so much more upside, and Paul looking close to ready to contribute.

Now, he hasn't exactly been lined up with offensive guys, attached at the hip to guys like Neil, Greening, Daugavins, you'd expect his numbers to be a bit lower. But he's got to show more to keep his spot imo. Good at faceoffs doesn't cut it on it's own.

I know he doesn't bring much offensively except that he can score a good amount of goals without PP time.

Look at his 2011-12 and 2013-14 seasons :

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...21&type=individual&sort=igoals60&sortdir=DESC

7th for goals scored per 60 minutes at ES amongst 19 forwards

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...21&type=individual&sort=igoals60&sortdir=DESC

9th for goals scored per 60 minutes at ES amongst 17 forwards

We know that in 2012-13, the team was playing survival hockey because of injuries so offensive output was skewed and last season he only played 37 games and was plagued by injuries...

I'm not saying he should be a top-6 forward but that's an interesting output for a physical defensive bot-6 forward. People have wrong expectations if they think he should have been much more than that. It's lik Pageau, I doubt he will be a 2-way 50 pts center, so as long as people don't get those expectations too high (and if he doesn't get too much money for their liking), Pageau will continue to be appreciated... If not, in 5 years he will be regarded as Zack Smith is right now.

Now where I agree is that his spot is not safe, but it's not because he sucks (like some would suggest here). It's because Sens are freaking good at drafting and developping NHL players.

Another strength for Ben Harpur that I didn't know is that he can play either side which gives him an advantage over others I think. Defensively because he is big & plays with an edge which is what the Sens wanted to see more of from him is that he can rough people up in front of his own net & when it gets ugly he goes in there & puts an end to it, somewhat like Boro. You may not have liked what you saw from him in the tournament & my guess is you may never like him because he doesn't have the flash & smooth skating of a Chabot or Wikstrand.

Well, we all have our biases... Yours is about size, mine is probably european skill (Petersson and Regin over Hoffman) but a HF Sens trend I have noticed now is a forward who handles the puck better than another is automatically a better prospect. For a defenseman, it's skating. That's true in theory, but in theory only, hockey is more complex than that, if not the league would be filled with Sergei Samsonovs.

Expected from anyone employed by an NHL team about guys in their system.

Most teams don't badmouth their players/prospects to the media.

Strenghts of players are for medias/fans, weaknesses are for coaching staff and players themselves...

Like they didn't "brag" at how bad was Mark Stone skating at first... They just adressed it instead. They are professionals and we are only fans.

 

[BonkTastic]

Still, his remarks about some guys were so glowing that you could tell they had a better evaluation.

Man, that's the thing about being a fan... we have no idea what is being asked of these players.

I mean, for all we know, they could have had some pre-tourney meetings with Harpur and basically said "these games don't mean anything. We know you can do (y), but we want to see (x) out of you this week... we don't care about anything else. You can get scored on a dozen times, but we had better see a ton of (x) out of you".

I mean, that's clearly an exaggerated example, but it helps illustrate the point. Maybe Harpur was having trouble doing a thing, and the team was very happy to see that he had improved that thing, and are willing to overlook other things?

These mini-camps are really difficult to pull hard data and good samples from sometimes.

 

[freddy61]

Can you please explain what you're alluding to here? What does Chabot have to do with Lehner and Rundblad?

My original comment was:

I think Chabot will quickly make us forget ...you know...the guy we traded... what's his name? See I already forgot!

So you ask a good question. I'd like to know that too. The door was wide open when I made my original comment. I must say I enjoyed the conversation that followed about Lehner but I can't explain how it got there either.

I'll confess that I had Rundblad in mind but his name..... just... well... you know... I couldn't recall it. Remember we "stole" Rundblad from St Louis (who drafted him 17th the year before) in exchange for our 16th pick in 2010. Wasn't he the last D we had who would be the next best thing. Ceci got some love but not like that. Didn't some even say that Rundbald might be a bigger stronger version of Karlsson. Now we draft Chabot 18th and we are talking about all the same attributes, size (6'2"), skating, offensive potential etc... See a lot of people forgot him already. If Chabot turns out to be the real thing no one will complain anymore that we traded Rundblad for Turris.

Thanks again Doc that "blad" fix was priceless. It's what I needed to "cure" my memory

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I liked the opening remark about Dunn.

"Vince is an interesting case."

I think so too

 

[God Says No]

I know he doesn't bring much offensively except that he can score a good amount of goals without PP time.

Look at his 2011-12 and 2013-14 seasons :

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...21&type=individual&sort=igoals60&sortdir=DESC

7th for goals scored per 60 minutes at ES amongst 19 forwards

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...21&type=individual&sort=igoals60&sortdir=DESC

9th for goals scored per 60 minutes at ES amongst 17 forwards

We know that in 2012-13, the team was playing survival hockey because of injuries so offensive output was skewed and last season he only played 37 games and was plagued by injuries...

I'm not saying he should be a top-6 forward but that's an interesting output for a physical defensive bot-6 forward. People have wrong expectations if they think he should have been much more than that. It's lik Pageau, I doubt he will be a 2-way 50 pts center, so as long as people don't get those expectations too high (and if he doesn't get too much money for their liking), Pageau will continue to be appreciated... If not, in 5 years he will be regarded as Zack Smith is right now.

Now where I agree is that his spot is not safe, but it's not because he sucks (like some would suggest here). It's because Sens are freaking good at drafting and developping NHL players.

No, he wasn't very good. He hasn't been any good for almost 4 years now. No high expectations either. I just want him to be the 4th line LH center that has solid faceoff numbers, hits, plays solid D and occasionally fights. If he scores more than 7 goals, then it's a bonus and he'll be one of the better 4th line centers in the league. Sadly, he's been a shell of his former self.

 

[Cosmix]

I agree with Xspirit that the Senators greatest needs to become a contender to win the cup are one more elite forward and a solid #2-3 D-man.

The GM is hoping one of Cowen, Wiercioch, Borowiecki or Wideman can be the Dman but I doubt those guys become the Dman we need. Chabot has potential to be that player but I think he is 1- 2 -3 years away.

Similarly, the Senators need an elite forward and I do not see one amongst the prospects that the team has now. Paul, White, Lindberg, Puempel, and Prince have potential but I don't think they will ever be elite.

 

[Hutz]

You'd think a convert from forward would have better puck skills though...

Unless, of course, that's exactly the reason he was converted from forward.

If Chabot turns out to be the real thing no one will complain anymore that we traded Rundblad for Turris.

I haven't heard anyone complain about that trade in years, though. Seems to me most consider it a big win in retrospect.

 

[HavlatMach9]

I haven't heard anyone complain about that trade in years, though. Seems to me most consider it a big win in retrospect.

it's complained about because it's made into a turris vs tarasenko trade

 

[Hutz]

it's complained about because it's made into a turris vs tarasenko trade

But that's complaining about the Rundblad for 16th trade, not the Rundblad for Turris one.

 

[HavlatMach9]

But that's complaining about the Rundblad for 16th trade, not the Rundblad for Turris one.

oh. yea for sure, at its worse was we gave up a 2nd rounder too many, and since then, it's been a heist

 

[Hutz]

oh. yea for sure, at its worse was we gave up a 2nd rounder too many, and since then, it's been a heist

Yep, I'll admit, I had my doubts about that one at the time. Those have all but vanished now.

 

[J0sh]

Aight **** it. We were all thinkin it anyways... Lindberg looks like a skinny left handed alfie. Aint no way he fails us

 

[BondraTime]

Aight **** it. We were all thinkin it anyways... Lindberg looks like a skinny left handed alfie. Aint no way he fails us

He's 3" taller, and heavier than Alfie at the age of 20, and really doesn't resemble Alfie in any way on the ice.

I'd be surprised if 1% thought that.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Aight **** it. We were all thinkin it anyways... Lindberg looks like a skinny left handed alfie. Aint no way he fails us

I'll go ahead and say Lindberg's skating and general puck skills are great. He's trending upwards and that has started with a big commitment to come to North America to play. His skills were definitely there in that first rookie camp imo, and he's only gone on to improve on that impression.

But... he's still very easy to get the puck off of. He gives it up so easily at times for a man of his stature and skill. That's a big difference between him and #11. Alfie was hard AF on the puck and that's what made him the greatest Senator and HHOFER (imo), ask Chris Drury about that. Lindberg's got a ways to go to be compared to such a legend.

That's what I'm going to watch for out of him in Bingo. Sometimes he just needs to hug the boards and eat the puck for a second before making his next move. Stil hyped for him, but let's not go crazy. Big potential though, I'm very partial to my Swedes.

 

[Back in Black]

Good showing for the Sens overall, nice place to showcase what we got!

 

[aragorn]

The three prospects who I think have the greatest potential could be a great line in Bingo this yr, if they put them together in Puempel - Paul - Lindberg. They could also be a great future 3rd line in Ottawa. Puempel is considered a sniper, Paul is good at faceoffs & is a defensive specialist with some offensive potential & Lindberg is a very good two way forward based on what I saw at the rookie tournament from him. You have good size, speed & skill on that line, a little bit of everything you need to be a successful line IMO.

Now knowing that Harpur can play the right side, I would have liked to see a Chabot - Harpur tandem at the rookie tournament. IMO they have the potential to be a good pairing, maybe next yr in Bingo we might see it.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I agree with Xspirit that the Senators greatest needs to become a contender to win the cup are one more elite forward and a solid #2-3 D-man.

The GM is hoping one of Cowen, Wiercioch, Borowiecki or Wideman can be the Dman but I doubt those guys become the Dman we need. Chabot has potential to be that player but I think he is 1- 2 -3 years away.

Similarly, the Senators need an elite forward and I do not see one amongst the prospects that the team has now. Paul, White, Lindberg, Puempel, and Prince have potential but I don't think they will ever be elite.

Who are our elite forwards now?
I guess agreement on the term is required.
The way the Sens are building and drafting they are moving quickly towards having 4 good lines that can play a sound two way game. Their strength is evolving towards balanced two-way skill through out the line-up. I foresee that Paul, Lindberg, Prince and Puempel all on the team by next year. White and Chabot likely 1 to 2 years after that. Some Improvement should be expected out of Hoffman, Zib, Lazar... Maybe not much (in the way of forwards) I would consider elite but they are building a very good 4 line team. The one place I would add is a legit top 4 D vet to play 2-3 years while Chabot is getting ready to make the jump. Chiasson, Greening, Neil will all be gone off the Sens playing roster by the beginning of next year. By the time White , Gagne, and/or Chlapik are ready Smith and Michalek will be gone.

 

[Xspyrit]

Who are our elite forwards now?
I guess agreement on the term is required.
The way the Sens are building and drafting they are moving quickly towards having 4 good lines that can play a sound two way game. Their strength is evolving towards balanced two-way skill through out the line-up. I foresee that Paul, Lindberg, Prince and Puempel all on the team by next year. White and Chabot likely 1 to 2 years after that. Some Improvement should be expected out of Hoffman, Zib, Lazar... Maybe not much (in the way of forwards) I would consider elite but they are building a very good 4 line team. The one place I would add is a legit top 4 D vet to play 2-3 years while Chabot is getting ready to make the jump. Chiasson, Greening, Neil will all be gone off the Sens playing roster by the beginning of next year. By the time White , Gagne, and/or Chlapik are ready Smith and Michalek will be gone.

It's my fault as I used the word "elite" when I shouldn't have... I changed it for the word "star" instead.

2016-17 could be :

MacArthur-Turris-Stone
Hoffman-Zibanejad-Ryan
Puempel-Pageau-Lazar
Prince-Paul-Lindberg
McCormick/Dzingel

Methot-Karlsson
Chabot-Ceci
Cowen-Wikstrand
Borowiecki/Claesson

Anderson
O'connor

I like the Sens future... And there will be more coming with White, Gagne, Chlapik, Ahl, Perron, Jaros, Englund and new picks, etc

We have to get a high end LWer for an upgrade though...

Wiercioch, Chiasson, Smith, Michalek, Hammond, picks, prospects are assets we can part with. We could also sacrifice a young (potential) roster player, preferrably a LW like Prince, Puempel or Hoffman