Rolf Neilson Suspended by OHL

[TcNorth]

Interesting, I like this idea.

No. They would all end up in London, or at least the best players would.

 

[Purple Phart]

No. They would all end up in London, or at least the best players would.

I beg to differ. Waived players typically go initially, to those teams that finished nearer to the bottom. To have a shot at any self-waived player, most of the other teams would first have to pass, before London ever got a chance to sign them. ( Unless of course. London had finished way down the standings).

This also is a benefit to a player opting to self-waive. They would most likley be claimed by a team who are in a rebuilding mode, and just might have a better chance at nailing down a roster spot against some lesser competition. Perhaps, better ice time ?

There's also a "put up, or shut up " element to this idea, as well. Once a self-waived player is claimed, it's then up to them to demonstrate their value, to their new team. The player, his parents, and agent, must have some level of conviction before opting for this escape clause. If the self-waived player can not perform with a clean slate before them, then perhaps it was best for all concerned that they left, since a malcontent doesn't bring much to a team environment.

 

[ohloutsider]

I beg to differ. Waived players typically go initially, to those teams that finished nearer to the bottom. To have a shot at any self-waived player, most of the other teams would first have to pass, before London ever got a chance to sign them. ( Unless of course. London had finished way down the standings).

This also is a benefit to a player opting to self-waive. They would most likley be claimed by a team who are in a rebuilding mode, and just might have a better chance at nailing down a roster spot against some lesser competition. Perhaps, better ice time ?

There's also a "put up, or shut up " element to this idea, as well. Once a self-waived player is claimed, it's then up to them to demonstrate their value, to their new team. The player, his parents, and agent, must have some level of conviction before opting for this escape clause. If the self-waived player can not perform with a clean slate before them, then perhaps it was best for all concerned that they left, since a malcontent doesn't bring much to a team environment.

I'm a little confused here - Are you suggesting players have the right to "self-wave" at the draft? What is the point of the draft then? Players can go where they want? How does the team/league control this? This looks full of flaws.

 

[Purple Phart]

If you read my previous proposal in page 3 of this thread, that should explain the what & the how.
It's basically a way for the league to address the discontent that some players encounter, when they
feel relegated to playing behind a less-talented individual who occupies a roster spot due to nepotism.
I'm not proposing that players do this at the point of the draft, but rather as an "escape clause" when they find themselves in an untennable situation. It's also somewhat punative toward a team that consciously opts toward nepotism, as a routine policy. It's an attempt to discourage the practice, and attempting to level the field of opportunity for players.

 

[bobber]

If you read my previous proposal in page 3 of this thread, that should explain the what & the how.
It's basically a way for the league to address the discontent that some players encounter, when they
feel relegated to playing behind a less-talented individual who occupies a roster spot due to nepotism.
I'm not proposing that players do this at the point of the draft, but rather as an "escape clause" when they find themselves in an untennable situation. It's also somewhat punative toward a team that consciously opts toward nepotism, as a routine policy. It's an attempt to discourage the practice, and attempting to level the field of opportunity for players.

What happens if the whole team decides to do it? The Flint team all walked out once.

 

[Purple Phart]

Totally different situation with the Firebirds walking out "en mass". That action was done to support the coaching staff who had been fired.

This option is meant to apply to individual player or players who legitimately feel they're being denied
an opportunity to play and develop, due to a situation of nepotism that is present.

 

[Firebrd828]

They should have forced Flint to trade Rolf's son. That would finally set things right.

What do you think any GM would be willing to give in return for a player that they could have had for free, but chose to pass on for 21 1/2 rounds in two years worth of drafts???

 

[Firebrd828]

...Since the entire Flint team walked out last fall, though, the league may have still had a huge problem to deal with if the entire team had applied to have their cases reviewed by such a committee.

Not really...there were only really two defensemen who lost out on significant chances to dress for games because of the time given to the owner's son. I kinda like the plan as it was proposed.

 

[ohloutsider]

If you read my previous proposal in page 3 of this thread, that should explain the what & the how.
It's basically a way for the league to address the discontent that some players encounter, when they
feel relegated to playing behind a less-talented individual who occupies a roster spot due to nepotism.
I'm not proposing that players do this at the point of the draft, but rather as an "escape clause" when they find themselves in an untennable situation. It's also somewhat punative toward a team that consciously opts toward nepotism, as a routine policy. It's an attempt to discourage the practice, and attempting to level the field of opportunity for players.

I did read through the entire thread a couple of times - that is why I was confused. All of this exists although rules are not in place. Player not happy - goes home - sits and waits for a trade or heads off to school. Happens every year. 1st rounders have a system in place to help the drafting teams if they don't report. Setting up a program where the league has to listen to players/parents/agents on why little Johnny doesn't want to go to Soo ( too cold) or Owen Sound ( my allergies bother me) or London ( nothing to do there) would be a full time job for 10 people. All of this seems like a lot of bother to fix one or two issues. Nepotism is never going away and the majority of teams handle this very well. I said this before but Parents supporting their kids is the backbone of hockey and without it hockey as a sport is done.

 

[Otto]

I did read through the entire thread a couple of times - that is why I was confused. All of this exists although rules are not in place. Player not happy - goes home - sits and waits for a trade or heads off to school. Happens every year. 1st rounders have a system in place to help the drafting teams if they don't report. Setting up a program where the league has to listen to players/parents/agents on why little Johnny doesn't want to go to Soo ( too cold) or Owen Sound ( my allergies bother me) or London ( nothing to do there) would be a full time job for 10 people. All of this seems like a lot of bother to fix one or two issues. Nepotism is never going away and the majority of teams handle this very well. I said this before but Parents supporting their kids is the backbone of hockey and without it hockey as a sport is done.

Here is what was posted

Should any player (s ) feel that they're being unfairly treated as a result of an owner/manager/coache's son or others
being affordrd prefferential treatment., then those player(s) can apply to have themselves waived, without compensation. There should be an independant tribunal appointed by the league to determine if the player's claim has substance. If the tribunal is in agreement, then that player ( or players) can be freely acquired by
any other team, without compensation.

This gives any player an out, and costs the offending organization the rights to that player. In effect, this would force teams contemplating bringing in a potential nepotism conflict, a punative cost to do so.

It's for different situations than you have stated

 

[keepingscore]

And in light of all that has gone on, players continue to report

I asked this question earlier what constitutes nepotism? Son? Nephew? Friend of the family?

All of it is wrong. We'll all be laughing or crying Sunday morning when we check out the pedigree of some of the kids drafted.
Nothing will change.
The only reason the entire Flint team walked out and caused the chaos was because the owner is an outsider, which no connection whatsoever to the NHL.

 

[ohloutsider]

Here is what was posted



It's for different situations than you have stated

Almost every player thinks someone on the team is getting preferential treatment? Once you open the door a crack - they will come. Creating rules to stop people from investing in the league is not the route. These are the people that put their money ( and big sums of it) up to mantain franchises. If one of them gets out of hand the league will deal with them (Flint). But creating a kangaroo court is not the answer.

 

[Whalers Fan]

What do you think any GM would be willing to give in return for a player that they could have had for free, but chose to pass on for 21 1/2 rounds in two years worth of drafts???

If the league asked a team to deal for Hakon as a favor, the deal could be for "future considerations", which basically means "for nothing". It would have to be a team that was thin on the blue line, though.

 

[Firebrd828]

If the league asked a team to deal for Hakon as a favor, the deal could be for "future considerations", which basically means "for nothing". It would have to be a team that was thin on the blue line, though.

Which brings up another point that I've made a couple of times already...guess who is "thin on the blue line"??? The Firebirds. Theyre heading into next year looking at only having 5 defensemen on the roster, including Hakon.

 

[Savard18]

Which brings up another point that I've made a couple of times already...guess who is "thin on the blue line"??? The Firebirds. Theyre heading into next year looking at only having 5 defensemen on the roster, including Hakon.

Yep. Ville is producing a bit in Toledo but he's going minus at a pretty good rate too. On ice for all 3 goals against last night. I'm hoping to maybe get down to Toledo and see how he's doing there. I haven't seen that Alex Peters is playing pro anywhere yet either. I wouldn't 100% rule him out yet. Really doubtful, I know but I think another year in junior would do him good. He didn't produce much offense at the OHL level at all and while strong on D, he was rarely dominant.

 

[keepingscore]

Oshawa drafts Peter DeBoer's (minority owner son) Jack Deboer in second round. Kid is already committed to Boston University and the USA National program. But the kid needs another feather in his cap and a Plan B.

Nepotism?

 

[Tim Raines]

Oshawa drafts Peter DeBoer's (minority owner son) Jack Deboer in second round. Kid is already committed to Boston University and the USA National program. But the kid needs another feather in his cap and a Plan B.

Nepotism?

It'd only be nepotism if the family connection somehow improved his lot. He is easily ranked as high or higher than he was picked, so hard to call it nepotism.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Oshawa drafts Peter DeBoer's (minority owner son) Jack Deboer in second round. Kid is already committed to Boston University and the USA National program. But the kid needs another feather in his cap and a Plan B.

Nepotism?

If he has an offer from Boston University and made the NTDP, he's well qualified to play in the OHL. Getting drafted by dad's team just increases the odds he may bypass the NCAA for the OHL down the road, depending on how he develops in the NTDP and where he eventually goes in the NHL draft.

 

[knowescape]

You understand that Branch doesn't have the power to make rule changes?

The Governors vote on the rule changes, does anyone actually think they will vote to ban teams from drafting/signing family members? Why would they possibly do that?

First and foremost.. no one thinks it will ever happen to them, they all have it under control

Second.. at what point do you draw the line? Sons? Nephews? Illegitimate son of a secretary they had relations with in 2001?

This is an historic moment, in that I am agreeing whole-heartedly with my friend Otto. No owner is going to handcuff their GM from drafting the best player (relative or not). OHL hockey is a sport but let's not forget it is also a business.

 

[knowescape]

I'm fine with the way it is now. I think the Flint situation is a one off and Sudbury doesn't come close to this.

That being said I recognize that some feel that there should be changes made and I like the option that Purple Heart proposed

Agreed (again). Just how many filthy rich fathers are there out there that could (and would) purchase a hockey team for their son?

 

[knowescape]

If you read my previous proposal in page 3 of this thread, that should explain the what & the how.
It's basically a way for the league to address the discontent that some players encounter, when they
feel relegated to playing behind a less-talented individual who occupies a roster spot due to nepotism.
I'm not proposing that players do this at the point of the draft, but rather as an "escape clause" when they find themselves in an untennable situation. It's also somewhat punative toward a team that consciously opts toward nepotism, as a routine policy. It's an attempt to discourage the practice, and attempting to level the field of opportunity for players.

Not a fan of the "self-waive". What next, I am not getting the ice time I think I deserve as a 16 year-old, coach was mean to me - made me skate hard and break a sweat, I wanted to be number 5 but that one was taken so I need a new team?

Play where you are drafted and suck it up, ask for a trade, or change leagues.

 

[TcNorth]

If you read my previous proposal in page 3 of this thread, that should explain the what & the how.
It's basically a way for the league to address the discontent that some players encounter, when they
feel relegated to playing behind a less-talented individual who occupies a roster spot due to nepotism.
I'm not proposing that players do this at the point of the draft, but rather as an "escape clause" when they find themselves in an untennable situation. It's also somewhat punative toward a team that consciously opts toward nepotism, as a routine policy. It's an attempt to discourage the practice, and attempting to level the field of opportunity for players.

Wow. Just think if NHL players could have this "escape clause" before they reached free agency. It would be an absolute mess.

 

[Purple Phart]

Wow. Just think if NHL players could have this "escape clause" before they reached free agency. It would be an absolute mess.

The NHL is all about "business", as opposed to the OHL, who promote the notion that they're all about "development". I'd humbly suggest that the practice of nepotism flies directly into the face of that tenant that Dave Branch so actively promotes. Outside of possibly Patrick Roy, I honestly can not see any NHL executive or owner who might engage in nepotism. They would do so at their peril.

 

[Big Punisher*]

I'm a little confused here - Are you suggesting players have the right to "self-wave" at the draft? What is the point of the draft then? Players can go where they want? How does the team/league control this? This looks full of flaws.

You haven't been paying attention lately. A top player can claim he is going to the NCAA, then change his mind once the team he wants to play for drafts him and fulfills the financial promises they made to him

Not the first time I have seen something like this posted. My question then and still is.. what due diligence could have been done that would have uncovered that there was the potential for this situation to arrive

The point is, there appears to have been zero due diligence when it came to Neilson. I'm willing to bet all Branch saw was a wealthy guy who could provide a new home for the Whalers.

Not exactly. There are no rules surrounding drafting and/or playing a relative of an owner.

It just seems that once again, David Branch is playing catch up, instead of being out front of the issues. There have been problems surrounding this type of thing before, but the league sat back and did nothing. Now it's boiled over. This is all on Branch.

Kirby Rychel was drafted by Barrie - traded to Missy and then traded to Windsor, but I get what you are trying to say.

Kirby Rychel was a top rated prospect who has moved on to play in the NHL. He would have made any OHL team that drafted him. I don't think he's a fair comparison to say Logan Hunter

 

[Otto]

The point is, there appears to have been zero due diligence when it came to Neilson. I'm willing to bet all Branch saw was a wealthy guy who could provide a new home for the Whalers.

Thanks, but this didn't answer my question and is just a repeat of the same old comment. So I will ask again, what due diligence could have been done that would have forseen this situation would have played out?

I honestly believe that the people using this term have no idea what it actually means