Rolf Neilson Suspended by OHL

[bobber]

Kind of ridiculous for the OHL to step in here while looking the other way in the Burgess situation. I guess when Sudbury hired Barclay Branch, everything was good again.

Exactly. Branch must think he is having a reoccurring nightmare.

 

[Otto]

Burgess wasn't the first owner to have his kid play for the team so for the league to do anything about it would have been problematic. Burgess also didn't buy the team to give his kid a place to play so the league couldn't do much there either even though I'm sure they wanted to. Burgess didn't fire the coach although there was a lot of pressure put on Trent Cull to play the owners son. It was an embarrassment to the league for sure but he didn't cross the line, although he may have dabbled on the edges. That being said, I'm sure the League didn't want a repeat of the Burgess situation and when Nilsen went too far, the league was quick to jump and set an example.

Exactly, the two situations are not remotely close

 

[cub]

You understand that Branch doesn't have the power to make rule changes?

The Governors vote on the rule changes, does anyone actually think they will vote to ban teams from drafting/signing family members? Why would they possibly do that?

First and foremost.. no one thinks it will ever happen to them, they all have it under control

Second.. at what point do you draw the line? Sons? Nephews? Illegitimate son of a secretary they had relations with in 2001?

I understand that, however Branch being the commissioner gives direction and recommendation, and has a lot of influence if you follow the moves he has done in the past.

I really don't know what they should do about drafting family members, but I know it has created huge problems with Sudbury and Flint. Maybe having a third party assessing if family member is legitimate to play at this level. In Sudbury, they're were kids that had OHL career affected due to nepotism, this is who I really feel bad for. All in all, players should make team on their own merit not for their blood line.

 

[keepingscore]

Exactly. Branch must think he is having a reoccurring nightmare.

The hockey world is a fraternity, one the Flint coach doesn't belong to. How about they change the rules in the OHL draft so that teams can only draft family in the first three rounds.

How about the media hockey guys start reporting on nepotisim and the crap that goes on. They don't do it because they'll lose access to their bread and butter.
It doesn't become news until there's a crisis and they can't ignore it and they all jump on board.

I feel sorry for the kids in the draft that get punted because a team drafts a family insider tomorrow.
It will happen.

 

[bobber]

The hockey world is a fraternity, one the Flint coach doesn't belong to. How about they change the rules in the OHL draft so that teams can only draft family in the first three rounds.

How about the media hockey guys start reporting on nepotisim and the crap that goes on. They don't do it because they'll lose access to their bread and butter.
It doesn't become news until there's a crisis and they can't ignore it and they all jump on board.

I feel sorry for the kids in the draft that get punted because a team drafts a family insider tomorrow.
It will happen.

Why should fans pay big bucks to watch Junior B or C players play in the OHL. Its fine for a person or persons with the cash to buy a franchise but if your kid is not OHL calibre let him play at the level his skill allows. How many players could have made the OHL had they not have been bumped out by a father wanting to put his under skilled son on a pedestal ?

 

[Otto]

I understand that, however Branch being the commissioner gives direction and recommendation, and has a lot of influence if you follow the moves he has done in the past.

I really don't know what they should do about drafting family members, but I know it has created huge problems with Sudbury and Flint. Maybe having a third party assessing if family member is legitimate to play at this level. In Sudbury, they're were kids that had OHL career affected due to nepotism, this is who I really feel bad for. All in all, players should make team on their own merit not for their blood line.

But again, you don't know what's been raised. Maybe it has and it was shot down?

 

[keepingscore]

But again, you don't know what's been raised. Maybe it has and it was shot down?

Nothing will change until the top drafted players start asking "will my kid have to play behind the owner, coach's gm's kid" and refuse to report.

That problem has been solved in Flint. What about the other offenders?

 

[Otto]

Nothing will change until the top drafted players start asking "will my kid have to play behind the owner, coach's gm's kid" and refuse to report.

That problem has been solved in Flint. What about the other offenders?

Again, where do you draw the line? Kids? Nephews? etc..

Don't kid yourself, parents have been taking this into consideration for years.. in the end they weigh the good with the bad.

 

[Whalers Fan]

How about they change the rules in the OHL draft so that teams can only draft family in the first three rounds.

Considering the lengths Nilsen has gone to in order to get his son a place to play, I have no doubt he would have ordered the GM to draft Hakon in the 3rd round had this been a rule. The Firebirds took him in the 7th round when no other team probably would have even drafted the kid, so they already overpaid for him.

 

[Purple Phart]

Dave Branch has maintained that the sanctions he's instituted are done with an eye toward protecting
the players. If so, then here's a proposal that might address the nepotism issue: This is simply an example using the Flint dilema, but it has potential if applied to " the best interests of the players".

Should any player (s ) feel that they're being unfairly treated as a result of an owner/manager/coache's son or others
being affordrd prefferential treatment., then those player(s) can apply to have themselves waived, without compensation. There should be an independant tribunal appointed by the league to determine if the player's claim has substance. If the tribunal is in agreement, then that player ( or players) can be freely acquired by
any other team, without compensation.

This gives any player an out, and costs the offending organization the rights to that player. In effect, this would force teams contemplating bringing in a potential nepotism conflict, a punative cost to do so.

Just an idea that might generate some pause for thought as to just how much a team is willing to forego,
to have their kin on a playing card.

 

[cub]

Again, where do you draw the line? Kids? Nephews? etc..

Don't kid yourself, parents have been taking this into consideration for years.. in the end they weigh the good with the bad.

Obviously it has become a problem right? OHL had problems with hazing, draft manipulation, and excess player benefits, OHL Board of Governors have addressed it, they have rules in place. For example, Windsor was slapped a huge fine violating player benefits and recruitment policies.

The OHL Board of Governors hopefully come up with a plan regarding nepotism. Many workplaces have policies regarding nepotism, maybe somehow use it for OHL. If a family member is good enough to play he should be eligible to all teams not just fathers team.

 

[bobber]

Considering the lengths Nilsen has gone to in order to get his son a place to play, I have no doubt he would have ordered the GM to draft Hakon in the 3rd round had this been a rule. The Firebirds took him in the 7th round when no other team probably would have even drafted the kid, so they already overpaid for him.

How about forcing the owner to take their kid in the first round. Even better. Gives the teams with no agendas a better chance at a skilled player they otherwise would not have gotten. In saying that there are kids out there that do have the skill to play in the CHL whose fathers played in pro hockey but those are the exception. We are all spit balling here and none of this is going to happen but I bet it give Branch pause for thought after having it happen a couple of times. Really who wants to put their son out there to be ridiculed because his father bought a team for him to play on?

 

[Otto]

Obviously it has become a problem right? OHL had problems with hazing, draft manipulation, and excess player benefits, OHL Board of Governors have addressed it, they have rules in place. For example, Windsor was slapped a huge fine violating player benefits and recruitment policies.

The OHL Board of Governors hopefully come up with a plan regarding nepotism. Many workplaces have policies regarding nepotism, maybe somehow use it for OHL. If a family member is good enough to play he should be eligible to all teams not just fathers team.

And in light of all that has gone on, players continue to report

I asked this question earlier what constitutes nepotism? Son? Nephew? Friend of the family?

 

[Otto]

Dave Branch has maintained that the sanctions he's instituted are done with an eye toward protecting
the players. If so, then here's a proposal that might address the nepotism issue: This is simply an example using the Flint dilema, but it has potential if applied to " the best interests of the players".

Should any player (s ) feel that they're being unfairly treated as a result of an owner/manager/coache's son
being affordrd prefferential treatment., then those player(s) can apply to have themselves waived, without compensation. There should be an independant tribunal appointed by the league to determine if the player's claim has substance. If the tribunal is in agreement, then that player can be freely acquired by
any other team, without compensation.

This gives any player an out, and costs the offending organization the rights to that player. In effect, this would force teams contemplating bringing in a potential nepotism conflict, a punative cost to do so.

Just an idea that might generate some pause for thought as to just how much a team is willing to forego,
to have their kin on a playing card.

Interesting, I like this idea.

 

[cub]

And in light of all that has gone on, players continue to report

I asked this question earlier what constitutes nepotism? Son? Nephew? Friend of the family?

If you read workplace nepotism policies it covers all this- “Familial relationshipâ€, not going to all details on this, it covers everything with conflict of interest due to nepotism.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Dave Branch has maintained that the sanctions he's instituted are done with an eye toward protecting
the players. If so, then here's a proposal that might address the nepotism issue: This is simply an example using the Flint dilema, but it has potential if applied to " the best interests of the players".

Should any player (s ) feel that they're being unfairly treated as a result of an owner/manager/coache's son or others
being affordrd prefferential treatment., then those player(s) can apply to have themselves waived, without compensation. There should be an independant tribunal appointed by the league to determine if the player's claim has substance. If the tribunal is in agreement, then that player ( or players) can be freely acquired by
any other team, without compensation.

This gives any player an out, and costs the offending organization the rights to that player. In effect, this would force teams contemplating bringing in a potential nepotism conflict, a punative cost to do so.

Just an idea that might generate some pause for thought as to just how much a team is willing to forego,
to have their kin on a playing card.

Something along those lines has potential. It doesn't rob legitimate players of the experience of playing for a close relative, yet has some teeth for those situations like Flint and Sudbury.

Since the entire Flint team walked out last fall, though, the league may have still had a huge problem to deal with if the entire team had applied to have their cases reviewed by such a committee.

 

[Otto]

If you read workplace nepotism policies it covers all this- “Familial relationshipâ€, not going to all details on this, it covers everything with conflict of interest due to nepotism.

Which is a very wide range.. no way the owners would ever go for this

 

[cub]

Which is a very wide range.. no way the owners would ever go for this

need some kind of solution on this. Are you ok with it?

 

[Otto]

need some kind of solution on this. Are you ok with it?

I'm fine with the way it is now. I think the Flint situation is a one off and Sudbury doesn't come close to this.

That being said I recognize that some feel that there should be changes made and I like the option that Purple Heart proposed

 

[FireBird71]

Considering the lengths Nilsen has gone to in order to get his son a place to play, I have no doubt he would have ordered the GM to draft Hakon in the 3rd round had this been a rule. The Firebirds took him in the 7th round when no other team probably would have even drafted the kid, so they already overpaid for him.

Fortunately for that they had no 2nd or 3rds

 

[cub]

I'm fine with the way it is now. I think the Flint situation is a one off and Sudbury doesn't come close to this.

That being said I recognize that some feel that there should be changes made and I like the option that Purple Heart proposed

Don't underestimate the damage that has happen for these kids who all their life worked hard to get to the OHL level and hopefully possibly NHL. Sudbury hasn't recovered from what happened, and won't under current ownership. It is a sick environment, not good for kid development, and not good for the fans.

 

[keepingscore]

Don't underestimate the damage that has happen for these kids who all their life worked hard to get to the OHL level and hopefully possibly NHL. Sudbury hasn't recovered from what happened, and won't under current ownership. It is a sick environment, not good for kid development, and not good for the fans.

The only way to change the system is through the grassroots upwards. The HUGE OHL marketing machine does everything in its power to suck kids into its system. Scouting, OHL Cup, promises of paid post-secondary education and a gateway to the pros. Teams send letters to potential draft picks, make calls, invite them to the combine, create hype and make a HUGE deal about the OHL draft. The draft can make or break a kid's hockey future. It can also crush their hopes and dreams.

Parents need to speak up and be loud about the negative impact of nepotism in the CHL.

Pitty Barrie's top-drafted forwards (again) who have to play behind the coach's kid next year, behind the kid who got a free ride.

 

[CharlieGirl]

Parents need to speak up and be loud about the negative impact of nepotism in the CHL.

Parents and players DO have a choice. A kid is not forced to report to any team that drafts him. There are options available to players - especially the top tier players.

I suspect that Flint will have a very, very hard time getting any kid to report to the team for the next while. Neither Sudbury or Barrie have that track record (although perhaps Sudbury should). If any team treats its players unfairly, word will spread and players won't report. Or you'll see a bunch of players requesting a trade out of Dodge. When that happens, ownership/management will have to address the problems they've created.

Blowing up the entire system to deal with a few isolated incidents doesn't seem like a good solution to me.

 

[bobber]

Parents and players DO have a choice. A kid is not forced to report to any team that drafts him. There are options available to players - especially the top tier players.

I suspect that Flint will have a very, very hard time getting any kid to report to the team for the next while. Neither Sudbury or Barrie have that track record (although perhaps Sudbury should). If any team treats its players unfairly, word will spread and players won't report. Or you'll see a bunch of players requesting a trade out of Dodge. When that happens, ownership/management will have to address the problems they've created.

Blowing up the entire system to deal with a few isolated incidents doesn't seem like a good solution to me.

Players at the OHL level have seen enough high level hockey to know who has the talent to play in a league like the OHL. I am sure the Sudbury players were peed off at having to give up ice to the owners son. He even played on the power play I believe. I think the league will have no choice but to look at something after the fiasco in Flint. Its not over yet I am sure. Its a huge concern for the league to have franchises that players refuse to go to if it happens year after year.

 

[keepingscore]

Parents and players DO have a choice. A kid is not forced to report to any team that drafts him. There are options available to players - especially the top tier players.

They are forced to report for the team that drafted them - that's the point of the draft.

There are only three rounds of top tier players - 45 in total. And only some of those kids have a real choice.

The rest - 180 players named in the draft - have very little to absolutely no bargaining power.

You hit the nail on the head. The over-hyped draft is just for the top tier players.
For the rest, it's an invitation to try out, in many cases against the front office's family and friends' kids.