Prospect Info: Robert Hagg [March 2014: AAV is $925k, 3-yr ELC, per Tim P.]

[Rebels57]

I don't know what gives you so much confidence to make that statement. It certainly isn't his partner that you trash every chance you get. His CF% is as low as it is because he doesn't sustain enough pressure in the OZ, let's teams walk into the DZ too easily, and doesn't move the puck well enough when he gets possession.

His GF% will still be decent at the end of the year because he has built up such a positive differential in the first third of the season. The problem is the regression (in theory) will come down the stretch when this team is fighting for a playoff spot.


One game sample Corsi stats aren't very valuable, especially when the team is missing it's best player. 30 games worth of Corsi stats are sizable and can be pretty telling. There are other stats that weight quality of shots and Hagg grades out poorly in those stats as well. Corsi is still the best predictive stat for future results (public stat anyway) and that is why it is often cited.

He is a staunch supporter of Hagg for no other reason than it goes against the supposed "hive-mind." It's the same reason he supports Hakstol, supported the Wonder Twins, slags on Ghost, etc.

Don't look for logic where there is none.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hagg with a 94.86% on-ice SV%, while Sanheim's only at 88.54% after that awful goal Elliott let in yesterday. Gonna go out on a limb and say those numbers will be much closer together by season's end.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[deadhead]

People slag players for the wrong reasons.

Filppula is doing a solid job as a 3C, it's not his fault that Patrick is MIA and he has to be a 2C.
Hagg is doing fine for a rookie 6th D-man, Manning was doing fine for a 3rd pair D-man, it's not their fault that MacDonald got injured and Gudas got suspended and they were overused.

If you're a top 6 forward or top 4 D-man, and paid as such, you should play as such.

But if you're a back of the roster player forced into duty as a top 6/top 4 player, you're not going to look good because you'll be matched up against better players on a consistent basis.

That's not the player's fault, that's the fault of the GM for either overestimating what the player brings or failing to bring in enough quality depth that you don't have to misuse a player.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Oh no blame on the coach?

 

[Striiker]

Well boy oh boy am I shocked to see the typical people defending a defensemen as trash as Hagg. They literally judge players exclusively on number of hits and ignore everything that actually helps win games.

Hagg gets praise, Ghost gets hate. That says it all.

 

[deadhead]

Coach can only play the players the GM gives him.

The alternatives given to the Wonder Twins (and PEB is just fine in Vegas, thank you), were Cousins (scrub in Arizona), Luby (meh in KHL), White (awful last season here), Gordon. When Laughton and Leier were ready, they replaced them.

The alternative to Hagg and Manning this year was Alt and O'Neill.
And with Gudas out, Hagg was the only physical defenseman on the team.

The alternative to Weise has been Lehtera and Read.

When the players in LHV are ready, Weise and Manning are history.

 

[Striiker]

Did I say to bench Hagg and call up the AHLers?

You realize there's quite a bit of room between averaging 19:12 per night and being replaced, right? At best, he's tied for worst defensemen in the lineup right now.

In a world where we have a competent coach, Hagg is the one playing 10-14 minutes per night, instead of dragging down one of our two best defensemen and being a liability every time the puck comes near him.

 

[deadhead]

In a world where Gudas doesn't get suspended, where we had better RHD, Hagg would be playing 14-15 minutes a night on a 3rd pair.
But you don't want to pair Hagg with Sanheim for obvious reasons, so it's kinda hard to rotate three pairs without that combo.

Maybe the solution is to package Morin and some other assets for a top 4 RHD?

 

[FLYguy3911]

Can we stop bringing up the suspension? Hagg was playing above Gudas before the suspension and now after the suspension. Leave the conspiracies out of it too because I know what is coming next. Everyone can say Hagg is a bottom pair guy until they are blue in the face. The coach doesn't think so and that's all that really matters.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I am so sick of hearing that Hagg is on the roster because he can play the right side. He plays with Gostisbehere. Not one thing would need to be shuffled to replace him with a guy that only plays the left side. He made the roster because they think he's effective. Doomed.

 

[deadhead]

Ghost prefers the left side, he's said so.
We need more RHD, either we wait for Myers and Friedman, or trade for one.
MacDonald won't be on the RHD indefinitely.

 

[Striiker]

In a world where Gudas doesn't get suspended, where we had better RHD, Hagg would be playing 14-15 minutes a night on a 3rd pair.
But you don't want to pair Hagg with Sanheim for obvious reasons, so it's kinda hard to rotate three pairs without that combo.

Maybe the solution is to package Morin and some other assets for a top 4 RHD?

That's 100% false and you know it.

I am so sick of hearing that Hagg is on the roster because he can play the right side. He plays with Gostisbehere. Not one thing would need to be shuffled to replace him with a guy that only plays the left side. He made the roster because they think he's effective. Doomed.

He keeps conveniently ignoring that Hagg made the team as a LD and is only a RD now because Ghost (who was going to be the RD on that pair) told him to switch sides.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Ghost has been playing a lot on the right side the last 3 games or so if you haven't noticed.

 

[Striiker]

I love that the narrative is that Hakstol never has a choice for his actions.

Hagg is only there because they have no other choice?

MacDonald, Gudas, Manning, and Ghost all played RD for extended periods of time here. So where was this dire need to Hagg to save us and play 20 minutes per night on the right side?

Two of those players I mentioned are absolute trash, but the team loves them and uses them WAY more than any competent coach would, just like Hagg. MacDonald, Manning, and Hagg are all the same.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Ghost has been playing a lot on the right side the last 3 games or so if you haven't noticed.

....I did not. Yet when I think about the specific plays I remember, he's on the right. It's amazing what your brain can skip processing.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hagg might play the right side on paper but he doesn’t exactly excel in doing so. So that shouldn’t be used as a selling point just like the fact he’s playing top 4 minutes on paper doesn’t mean he’s excelling while doing it. You don’t get credit for participation.

 

[Rebels57]

Hagg might play the right side on paper but he doesn’t exactly excel in doing so. So that shouldn’t be used as a selling point just like the fact he’s playing top 4 minutes on paper doesn’t mean he’s excelling while doing it. You don’t get credit for participation.

Yeah come to think of it, the Couturier goal started with a backhand pass up the boards from Ghost from the right corner.

If Hagg and Ghost are to remain a pair, I would prefer Ghost be on the right. It will make playing in the ozone easier for Hagg and it will also give Ghost one-timer opportunities from both the LW and Hagg.

 

[pit]

Ghost prefers the left side, he's said so.

Ghost also would have preferred to play in every game he was healthy last season, but that didn't happen.

 

[KrazyKat]

I'm not quite sure where the hate for Hagg is coming from. From what I've seen he looks really good. I didn't even expect him to make the team this year.

He plays physical, and is definsively sound.
I think he has lots of room to grow offensively. But again, it's only his first year. I think he could develop into a smaller version of Coburn.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Well boy oh boy am I shocked to see the typical people defending a defensemen as trash as Hagg. They literally judge players exclusively on number of hits and ignore everything that actually helps win games.

Hagg gets praise, Ghost gets hate. That says it all.

It's called difference of opinion, no need to act condescending.

 

[Striiker]

It's called difference of opinion, no need to act condescending.

I don't care if you or anyone else likes Hagg, that's not the kind of posts I'm referring to.

I'm talking about a situation where a poster calls Hagg an "awesome" player while also repeatedly calling Ghost garbage (many different times in many different ways). That isn't opinion, that's either being blind or trolling.

 

[sa cyred]

I'm not quite sure where the hate for Hagg is coming from. From what I've seen he looks really good. I didn't even expect him to make the team this year.

He plays physical, and is definsively sound.
I think he has lots of room to grow offensively. But again, it's only his first year. I think he could develop into a smaller version of Coburn.

He is still 50/50 liked/disliked on here. He isn't MacD or Manning dislike level yet. He has played a pretty decent game so far, with struggles when he has played too high up. Most here didnt have a problem with him until he was on the top pairing and got outworked. Now, even though he has played alot better lately, is still disliked. I, personally, think it has to do with him playing more time over Sanhiem & playing over Morin (who I thought looked the best in preseason honestly), even though he shouldnt be compared to those two guys since he won't be a top 4 defender like these two are projected (hopefully) to be. It shouldn't be "I wish Sanhiem & Morin played more but it's because of Hagg they don't" kind of talk. Other than Ghost & Provorov, there are 4 other spots on the team. Of course just my opinion on the matter, but luckily he isn't on MacD/Manning hate level yet. Still quite a few of us on here that support him.

That being said, I don't see the Coburn part as much as I don't see the "younger MacD" part that some say also. Hard to put what type of player he is.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The people who criticize Hagg have been doing so for years now. The same criticisms today are the same as they were back then (can’t move the puck, concedes too much ice to the opposition, terrible reads offensively, etc.). It has nothing to do with other players as that’s a separate issue where blame falls elsewhere. I don’t blame Hagg as much as I don’t blame guys like MacDonald, Filppula, etc. that this organization overvalues things that aren’t as important in 2017.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

People don't like Hagg as a player for the following reasons:

• Hagg is an utter black hole offensively and that type of player is outdated.
• While it is true that those that believe he is not an effective player think he should be lower in the lineup than some players frequently mentioned, the evaluation of him as a player is and should be independent of that.
• His mental and physical passivity is on the level of AMac and arguably worse. Quite frankly, MacDonald is the better player right now.
• This is not new. Many of the same people criticizing his play most harshly now have had the exact same concerns for 2, 3, 4, and even 5 seasons now.
• This organization developed and coaches him in a way that magnifies his weaknesses and didn't encourage his growth enough in the areas where he lacked. They did him a huge disservice, as they continue to do to others.

I'll save this in my drafts for the next time it's needed because I think I've typed 6 different versions.

*Edit* I guess I should have crystallized my thoughts faster. What LoD said.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

We have three rd at the moment and their usage is polar opposite of their abilities.