red line - top 5 in the W/Q/O

[neelynugs]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/columnist.jsp;jsessionid=LFGMDJCCMHLD?content=20051004_141129_3512

Click to read more...

 

[scoutman1]

Not a fan of their top 5's"

mine would be:

Ontario:
Brian Little
Jordan Staal
Ben Shutron
Bobby Hughes
Corey Emmerton

WHL:
Peter Mueller
Ben Maxwell
Tysen Dowzak
Ryan White
Mitch Fadden

Quebec:
James Sheppard
Jonathan Bernier
Derrick Brassard
J-C Blanchard
Ivan Vishnevsky

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Redline completely drops the ball leaving Maxwell out of the WHL list...the idiots.

 

[chsb]

Not a fan of their top 5's"

mine would be:

Quebec:
James Sheppard
Jonathan Bernier
Derrick Brassard
J-C Blanchard
Ivan Vishnevsky

I agree on the first 3...
JC Blanchard had a terrible season start so far:

Blanchard, Jean-Christophe Mon 4 6 4 0 240.00 18 0 0 4.50 105 0.829
Bernier, Jonathan Lew 4 6 2 2 245.00 10 0 0 2.45 119 0.916

Blanchard is totally unproven at Junior Major level and is showing it right now.

Vishnevsky has not played 1 single game in the Q yet...how can you rank him without knowing how he will fare against this competition?

How can you dismiss Mathieu Carle? he is by far the most dominant D in the Q in this season start so far including 19 and 20 YOs??

Carle, Mathieu Bat 8 3 10 13 17 4

And finally I would put at least two other Ds ahead of Joey Ryan including Titan Alex Lamontagne...

 

[LaLaLaprise]

I agree on the first 3...
JC Blanchard had a terrible season start so far:

Blanchard, Jean-Christophe Mon 4 6 4 0 240.00 18 0 0 4.50 105 0.829
Bernier, Jonathan Lew 4 6 2 2 245.00 10 0 0 2.45 119 0.916

Blanchard is totally unproven at Junior Major level and is showing it right now.

Vishnevsky has not played 1 single game in the Q yet...how can you rank him without knowing how he will fare against this competition?

How can you dismiss Mathieu Carle? he is by far the most dominant D in the Q in this season start so far including 19 and 20 YOs??

Carle, Mathieu Bat 8 3 10 13 17 4

And finally I would put at least two other Ds ahead of Joey Ryan including Titan Alex Lamontagne...

Youre a homer!! Carle is good but points arent everything. Joey Ryan is better than Carle and Lamontagne. Lamontagne hasnt even played all of BAT's games, hes been a healthy scratch.

Blanchard is 6'05 and has good technic, NHL scouts are drooling over him regardless of his start.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

The top 5 for the Q, the writer basically looked at stats, which is sad.

 

[chsb]

Youre a homer!! Carle is good but points arent everything. Joey Ryan is better than Carle and Lamontagne. Lamontagne hasnt even played all of BAT's games, hes been a healthy scratch.

Blanchard is 6'05 and has good technic, NHL scouts are drooling over him regardless of his start.

Of course I am a homer and Mathieu Carle will be drafted first round NHL no doubt the way he is going now, homer or not...
Blanchard will go down the chart very quickly the way he is going right now.
So it is nice to look at potential, but....you also got to look at how the player performs at this level right now and to look at the upward or downward trend for each of them...

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Of course I am a homer and Mathieu Carle will be drafted first round NHL no doubt the way he is going now, homer or not...
Blanchard will go down the chart very quickly the way he is going right now.
So it is nice to look at potential, but....you also got to look at how the player performs at this level right now and to look at the upward or downward trend for each of them...

1st round?? Really?? LOL thats funny. Carle has no clue where his own zone is. He can have 200 pts that still doesnt make him attractive to NHL teams in the 1st round.

You have no clue about anything outside of Bathurst. Blanchard has had a rough start...but the season is also 70 games long, not 2.

Your last line says it all. NHL scouts look at Potential. They dont care about how a players point totals are at the age of 17, they project the player 4-5 years later. You think it works the opposite.

 

[Pcommedanspablo]

[Blanchard is 6'05 and has good technic, NHL scouts are drooling over him regardless of his start.[/QUOTE]


He may have good potential but teams at draft table look for stats before potential when it comes for drafting goalies. Look what happened to Julien Ellis and J.P. Levasseur. They had skill and potential but no number to back it up so they fall. If Blanchard do not step up, he will fall to later rounds.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

[Blanchard is 6'05 and has good technic, NHL scouts are drooling over him regardless of his start.

He may have good potential but teams at draft table look for stats before potential when it comes for drafting goalies. Look what happened to Julien Ellis and J.P. Levasseur. They had skill and potential but no number to back it up so they fall. If Blanchard do not step up, he will fall to later rounds.[/QUOTE]

No they dont.

Ellis had sick stats and where was he drafted??? 5th round. Loic Lacasse had brutal stats and he was picked before him.

Stats are part of the picture but if teams draft based on stats then why bother have scouts?

Lavasseur droped because he only had 3 starts after XMAS, scouts didnt see him.

 

[chsb]

1st round?? Really?? LOL thats funny. Carle has no clue where his own zone is. He can have 200 pts that still doesnt make him attractive to NHL teams in the 1st round.

You have no clue about anything outside of Bathurst. Blanchard has had a rough start...but the season is also 70 games long, not 2.

Your last line says it all. NHL scouts look at Potential. They dont care about how a players point totals are at the age of 17, they project the player 4-5 years later. You think it works the opposite.

If you look at the Q top-20 offensive Ds today, the only one who has a better +- than him is Keith Yandle and ....he is already drafted...
Do you mean that all these Ds below Carle in +- don't know where their defensive zone is?
Pretty weak statement on your part regarding Carle who is also very fine this year in his own zone...
How many times have you seen him play since beginning of the year?
I would say zero since we did not play Halifax so far and none of the Titan games were broadcasted in your area.
Yah! Pretty weak statement....

 

[LaLaLaprise]

If you look at the Q top-20 offensive Ds today, the only one who has a better +- than him is Keith Yandle and ....he is already drafted...
Do you mean that all these Ds below Carle in +- don't know where their defensive zone is?
Pretty weak statement on your part regarding Carle who is also very fine this year in his own zone...
How many times have you seen him play since beginning of the year?
I would say zero since we did not play Halifax so far and none of the Titan games were broadcasted in your area.
Yah! Pretty weak statement....

And +/- is a good read of defense?

He was a -30 last year. Did he all of a sudden improve that much? His team is playing well at this time. If you look at the top +/- most are from Bathurst. Last year the lowest +/- were mostly from BAT...HMMM coincidence that the enitre BAT team improved theri defensive play? Or could it be that they are out scoring opponents this year??

 

[chsb]

And +/- is a good read of defense?

He was a -30 last year. Did he all of a sudden improve that much? His team is playing well at this time. If you look at the top +/- most are from Bathurst. Last year the lowest +/- were mostly from BAT...HMMM coincidence that the enitre BAT team improved theri defensive play? Or could it be that they are out scoring opponents this year??

I was expecting that counter argument on your part.
For an answer to that, you got to look at Carle after January 1st 2005 when he really stepped up his play on a bottom feeder team:

AFT JAN 1ST 32 4 18 22 31 -5

at that pace, he would have a 50 points season at 17 last year with a reasonable +- stat on a bottom feeder...
So, to understand fully his rocket start this season, you only need to look at it as a continuation of the 2nd half of last season...

 

[LaLaLaprise]

I was expecting that counter argument on your part.
For an answer to that, you got to look at Carle after January 1st 2005 when he really stepped up his play on a bottom feeder team:

AFT JAN 1ST 32 4 18 22 31 -5

at that pace, he would have a 50 points season at 17 last year with a reasonable +- stat on a bottom feeder...
So, to understand fully his rocket start this season, you only need to look at it as a continuation of the 2nd half of last season...

I never questioned his offensive ability chsb, we all know hes talented offensivly.

I still dont like to use +/- to compare how players play defensivly. He has had a huge swing in +/-, as has everyone on Bathurst.

 

[Transported Upstater]

And +/- is a good read of defense?

He was a -30 last year. Did he all of a sudden improve that much? His team is playing well at this time. If you look at the top +/- most are from Bathurst. Last year the lowest +/- were mostly from BAT...HMMM coincidence that the enitre BAT team improved theri defensive play? Or could it be that they are out scoring opponents this year??

Wasn't Luc Bourdon even worse +/- wise? Or was he -29?

Either way, +/- alone is not even remotely an error-free indicator of defensive play. If we had an outstanding goalie, I could get a decent +/- playing on a line with Gretzky and Lemieux in the late 80's, and I certainly do not have anything resembling professional hockey talent in any way..

 

[chsb]

Wasn't Luc Bourdon even worse +/- wise? Or was he -29?

Either way, +/- alone is not even remotely an error-free indicator of defensive play. If we had an outstanding goalie, I could get a decent +/- playing on a line with Gretzky and Lemieux in the late 80's, and I certainly do not have anything resembling professional hockey talent in any way..

The better factor in assessing a player is to see him play, which is exactly what I did since the beginning of season.
and all last year...
Carle is a dominant D right now at 18 against other 19-20 YO Ds...
He is THE leader on defense on a team who has some pretty good Ds...

 

[Campino]

Chsb why do you keep posting???? You are the laughing stock of every hockey board there is. You really need to find another hobby that doesn't require as much intelligence. You never have a clue what you're talking about. You rarely have a decent point. And no one EVER agrees with you.
Ill give you one thing though, you always give us a good laugh when we read your posts; well most of the time, other times we have to scratch our heads.

 

[Transported Upstater]

The better factor in assessing a player is to see him play, which is exactly what I did since the beginning of season.
and all last year...
Carle is a dominant D right now at 18 against other 19-20 YO Ds...
He is THE leader on defense on a team who has some pretty good Ds...

I'm not criticizing Carle. I've never seen him play. Not only that, other than knowing it's in Northern New Brunswick, I know little to nothing about Bathurst, and as such cannot possibly have an "learned" opinion, negative or positive, about the region or the team. This I freely admit. The only Q games I've ever been to are in Rimouski (where, despite liking the area very much, I had a massive language problem, which is my fault for being a moron) Moncton, and Lewiston...

The only thing I know is that their Q team this year has been fantastic so far.

I just said that +/- rarely tells the whole picture. I couldn't tell you anything about Carle other than the spelling of his last name...