Reality - Canes are 0-5 against the Southeast and is not that close

[Roboturner913]

Reality is, this team was well on track to win the division before the injuries hit.

We can debate about why this team has so many injury-prone players, but you can't deny the fact that, when reasonably healthy, it is solidly a playoff team.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

Why is the fact that our players "didn't come ready to play the first few games of the season" and excuses for getting blown out twice? Why are we discounting games that we "didn't come ready to play?"

And why is the OP discounting the games where we did come to play, when we weren't riddled with injuries or rusty as ****? Be as negative as you want, but just because we haven't played well in the division doesn't mean this isn't a playoff team. No one is discounting losses, everyone understands that a loss is a loss, but when you're evaluating a team you evaluate them at their norm. If this team plays without Skinner, Gleason, Pitkanen and Mcbain for the rest of the season are we a playoff team? Probably not. If the team were never to find their game and chemistry after the first few games we wouldn't make the playoffs either.

I guess it depends on what you consider our norm, but I think most of us can agree that missing half our defense isn't a normal situation to play through.

 

[rocky7]

Injuries are big and yes this team was playing well. However, even given the injuries, some key players have not been playing as well as they started. A small sample yes, but maybe other teams have been doing their homework and have figured out ways to hamper the offensive power. A coach can't play every team the same with the same system. He must be able to adapt and figure out how to keep the offensive working and shut down the other teams offense. Accountability of the players is good but they must have a plan, otherwise, just send them out there to just play the best they can. Even if they were healthy, Muller has to out coach the other guy. Important aspect of the game. You can't just rely on top performances from everyone every night and can't depend on one style of play. Everyone has to do their job consistently to be successful. Still alright, but it's a team sport, coachs too.

 

[Roboturner913]

Injuries are big and yes this team was playing well. However, even given the injuries, some key players have not been playing as well as they started.

This is true, but you can also make a very good argument the reason those players aren't doing as well is because other players who complement them are absent.

For instance a big part of the Canes offense comes in the transition from offense to defense. The injuries on the blueline have hurt the offense far more than the defense, IMO. Pitkanen and Gleason are both good at creating turnovers, Pitkanen and McBain both excel at making good breakout passes that get the forwards in position to score on the other end of the ice. With those guys out, you aren't getting the same kind of play from AHLers and a kid fresh out of juniors.

Also, with Skinner being out, it makes it that much easier to take Jordan Staal out of the game without having to use your top defenders. With Jordan out of the game, it makes it so much easier to focus on the top line and keep them from scoring.

It's all a big domino effect. Actually it's the reverse of what was going on when the Canes were having lots of success earlier in the season. It's also begun to expose the team's lack of depth in the bottom half of the roster, but I'm not sure what could be done to address that given the team's budget and relative lack of NHL-ready prospects.

 

[vwg*]

This team is depressing and will be until JR is relieved of his duties. Thats not happening anytime soon though, so...

Face it, the team JR built to win the Cup was a complete fluke, along with the team that went on the 2009 run. We aren't a regular winning franchise with these clowns in management and we won't be until we trim the fat. This is the life of a Canes fan.

 

[Roboturner913]

This team is depressing and will be until JR is relieved of his duties. Thats not happening anytime soon though, so...

Face it, the team JR built to win the Cup was a complete fluke, along with the team that went on the 2009 run. We aren't a regular winning franchise with these clowns in management and we won't be until we trim the fat. This is the life of a Canes fan.

What about the 2001-02 team?

I'm not saying that JR is great or anything, but I think he knows how to put together a good veteran team when the opportunity presents itself. Three deep playoff runs and two Cup finals appearances in the last 10 years can't just be dismissed as a "fluke."

I do think, though, that he doesn't understand how to build a team of home-grown players, which should be a pretty crucial aspect of running a small-market sports organization. That IMO is his biggest fault as a GM and its what keeps his team from being competitive every single year instead of just doing it once every 3-4 years.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

I say we suck for MacKinnon.

 

[mgilmartin]

What about the 2001-02 team?

I'm not saying that JR is great or anything, but I think he knows how to put together a good veteran team when the opportunity presents itself. Three deep playoff runs and two Cup finals appearances in the last 10 years can't just be dismissed as a "fluke."

I do think, though, that he doesn't understand how to build a team of home-grown players, which should be a pretty crucial aspect of running a small-market sports organization. That IMO is his biggest fault as a GM and its what keeps his team from being competitive every single year instead of just doing it once every 3-4 years.

This. I hadn't become a hockey fan yet in 2002, so I can't comment on that team, but I caught on in 2006, and that 2006 team was no slouch. JR added nice veterans when he had chances to do so. This team will be fine again once the injuries subside.

 

[Beardy*]

Ever game against this division has been a multi goal blowout loss save the Winnipeg game. This includes games when the team was healthy, so the injuries thing is no excuse. And this now includes a blowout loss to the worst team in the Eastern Conference.

This is not a playoff team. The record right now may say otherwise, but they're not. And if the injuries don't heal up desperately soon, they will be in danger of a bottom 5 finish in the league. They are playing that bad.

Lol @ the OP..........

...

 

[ChuckW]

Ever game against this division has been a multi goal blowout loss save the Winnipeg game. This includes games when the team was healthy, so the injuries thing is no excuse. And this now includes a blowout loss to the worst team in the Eastern Conference.

This is not a playoff team. The record right now may say otherwise, but they're not. And if the injuries don't heal up desperately soon, they will be in danger of a bottom 5 finish in the league. They are playing that bad.

Your post is ridiculous to me.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

WOW THIS TEAM IS AWFUL

ohnowait

2-0 IN LAST TWO PROJECTS TO 100-0 IN NEXT HUNDRED

lulz. You guys!

--hank

 

[Vagrant]

WOW THIS TEAM IS AWFUL

ohnowait

2-0 IN LAST TWO PROJECTS TO 100-0 IN NEXT HUNDRED

lulz. You guys!

--hank

This is the most bipolar board on the face of the internet.... and I fear for my life when it starts to turn against Semin when he inevitably lets us down for a bit. It's a long fall from demigod.

 

[ChuckW]

This is the most bipolar board on the face of the internet.... and I fear for my life when it starts to turn against Semin when he inevitably lets us down for a bit. It's a long fall from demigod.

I agree people here seem to turn on a dime. Some guy is great, then he's a bum, then he's great again. It's called the ups and downs of a sports career. Even Tiger Woods will have a big chunk of "bum time" when his career retrospective is written. There are very few Gretzkys or Michael Jordans who are great until they retire.

Remember 2006? Erik Cole was the toast of the board. Then in 2009 he was the worst player ever, we should have bought him out, we should cut him, etc. Then the next season he scored 26 goals and 60 points and he was great again.

I'm seeing it again this year - Jokinen is the whipping-boy right now. Whoops, he scored 3 points last night. Is he still a bum? And Semin can do no wrong...even though he has a pitiful 4 goals.

Its something I do find annoying about this board.

 

[SeaBasstian]

I agree people here seem to turn on a dime. Some guy is great, then he's a bum, then he's great again. It's called the ups and downs of a sports career. Even Tiger Woods will have a big chunk of "bum time" when his career retrospective is written. There are very few Gretzkys or Michael Jordans who are great until they retire.

Remember 2006? Erik Cole was the toast of the board. Then in 2009 he was the worst player ever, we should have bought him out, we should cut him, etc. Then the next season he scored 26 goals and 60 points and he was great again.

I'm seeing it again this year - Jokinen is the whipping-boy right now. Whoops, he scored 3 points last night. Is he still a bum? And Semin can do no wrong...even though he has a pitiful 4 goals.

Its something I do find annoying about this board.

he may have only 4 goals, but 15 assists (to the guys who have 10 and 12 goals each), some of which coming after some amazingly nifty stick/puck work, plus a good deal of incredible defensive play will make up for that lack of scoring. dude hasnt been focusing on himself. its not about the goal scoring to him. hopefully that makes sense

 

[Sasha Cares]

Question?

What is our record without McBain in the line up... Without research I think it's 1-7... That would make us 10-1-1 with McBain... or are my numbers off?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Question?

What is our record without McBain in the line up... Without research I think it's 1-7... That would make us 10-1-1 with McBain... or are my numbers off?

10-3 with McBain, 1-5-1 without him.

He's also only been on the ice for 3 even strength goals against.

 

[Sasha Cares]

10-3 with McBain, 1-5-1 without him.

He's also only been on the ice for 3 even strength goals against.

I really think that we shouldn't be shopping him... I'm not sure what people expect from the development of a non #1 type drafted D man... McBain is ahead of the curve in almost any measurable way.. The guy will be a perfect second pairing D man for a lot of years...

Joni
Faulk
Gleason
McBain
Harrison
Murphy

That group has potential to be a nice group... Will it shutdown everyone? No, but it is a nice balance of offense, puck possession, and defense...

As much as I like Joni now, his injuries are worrisome now... I'm not sure McBain would pull enough to justify moving him... So Joni might have to be the one we move, but his play this year makes that iffy..

I'd like to get better defensively, but I just see no way for us to acquire that #1 shutdown guy, and if that isn't going to happen, I don't see the reward of moving any of those guys... Moving McBain to pick up a nevermade it or has been seems awfully short sighted

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I agree people here seem to turn on a dime. Some guy is great, then he's a bum, then he's great again. It's called the ups and downs of a sports career. Even Tiger Woods will have a big chunk of "bum time" when his career retrospective is written. There are very few Gretzkys or Michael Jordans who are great until they retire.

I agree Chuck, It's why I avoid the GDT's during a game.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

10-3 with McBain, 1-5-1 without him.

He's also only been on the ice for 3 even strength goals against.

I've said this before, but he has the best offensive instincts of any of the Canes defensemen. Really has a knack for knowing when to join the rush and walks the line very well to get his shot through (vs. blasting it into someones shins). He passes well also. I just wish he'd work on his core strength. I realize is not and never will be a bruiser, but I think if he had better strength on his skates and core strength along the boards, he'd be outstanding when you combine it with his offensive skills and stick work.

I know many people think he's expendable with Murphy coming up, but I still think Murphy will have a lot of struggles before he puts it together full time. Especially since Joni is a UFA in a couple of years also (Plus Joni misses 10+ games every year).

 

[Beardy*]

I really think that we shouldn't be shopping him... I'm not sure what people expect from the development of a non #1 type drafted D man... McBain is ahead of the curve in almost any measurable way.. The guy will be a perfect second pairing D man for a lot of years...

Joni
Faulk
Gleason
McBain
Harrison
Murphy

That group has potential to be a nice group... Will it shutdown everyone? No, but it is a nice balance of offense, puck possession, and defense...

As much as I like Joni now, his injuries are worrisome now... I'm not sure McBain would pull enough to justify moving him... So Joni might have to be the one we move, but his play this year makes that iffy..

I'd like to get better defensively, but I just see no way for us to acquire that #1 shutdown guy, and if that isn't going to happen, I don't see the reward of moving any of those guys... Moving McBain to pick up a nevermade it or has been seems awfully short sighted

McBain is probably easily the most undervalued and overly criticized player on this team... The fact of the matter is, when he's on the ice, the other team doesn't score. That's all you want out of a defenseman, and considering how thin we are, moving him would be a colossal mistake.

I think you may see us move Joni in the future so we can free up space for Marc Staal. I believe both of their contracts expire the same time, so it makes sense.

 

[Roboturner913]

I like McBain and I agree patience is warranted. In 2-3 years he could be another Dennis Seidenberg and we're sitting here wondering how the hell he got away.

Having said that, there is still a major need for a shot-blocking stay at home d-man on this team if you want to make a good playoff run, and given the roster makeup McBain is the one guy that could be deemed "expendable" and still has pretty good value in a trade.

I wouldn't want to trade him unless it was for a legitimately good stay-at-home guy who would be around a few years.

I also agree they may choose to make the tough call on Pitkanen. I think the guy is a very good player but Faulk's growth means there is room for diversifying the top two pairs. Marc Staal would be a dream come true.

 

[Sasha Cares]

That's the problem... No way we get a long term 2nd pairing SAHD on a decent contract for McBain

 

[Roboturner913]

That's the problem... No way we get a long term 2nd pairing SAHD on a decent contract for McBain

There's Klesla....

Obviously McBain would not be the only thing going the other way in such a deal though.