Re-Tool or full on Rebuild?

[KreiderHouseRules*]

I haven't been through a full rebuild, but I have been through 20+ years of whatever the hell they have been trying.

Neither is guarenteed to work, but one approach is guaranteed to not work.

Bingo. Same here, pal.

I was only 9 in 94. That was like the first year I really payed attention to hockey on my own.
13-14 was fun, man. God damnit.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I haven't been through a full rebuild, but I have been through 20+ years of whatever the hell they have been trying.

Neither is guarenteed to work, but one approach is guaranteed to not work.

I believe this is called "re-Rangering".

 

[RangerBoy]

First round playoff losses? The Rangers need to make the playoffs first. The other teams are getting better. The Rangers got worse without Yandle and I wasn't even a big Yandle guy.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

First round playoff losses? The Rangers need to make the playoffs first. The other teams are getting better. The Rangers got worse without Yandle and I wasn't even a big Yandle guy.

I don't think they're done yet.

I don't think bringing in a 6th round pick was the influx of youth discussed.

Let's have a little patience.

 

[mrhockey193195]

sure...in good shape to be a bubble team, and get crushed by any of the top 4 or 5 teams in 4-5 games.

I disagree here. What I'm proposing is an attempt to get the team back to 14-15 level of play.

i want a cup. im not satisfied with just barely squeaking into the playoffs.

You and me both.

a team with the guys youve mentioned is going to go toe to toe in a 7 game series against Crosby Malkin Letang and Kessel?

Hedman Drouin, Kucherov, Johnson (maybe i guess...depends on if they have stammer)

Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, etc?

We've gone toe-to-toe with those teams the past three seasons and held our own. What is different? We've lost MSL, lost Yandle, lost Stralman, and Staal and Girardi have regressed a lot. And we've depleted our prospect pool. No question

But what could we gain? Miller was playing like, and hopefully trending towards being, a top-30 winger in the game. There's no reason to believe that Hayes won't improve after a sophomore slump season. Lindberg and Fast look like they can be good third-line players on a contender in the near future, but would likely be on our 4th line. Skjei and McIlrath have impressed. Buchnevich is a wild card, but hopefully will be a high-impact offensive player.

I would argue it's premature to think that Stepan, McDonagh, and Kreider are done developing. Those guys are all under 26. Hell, Zuc and Brassard seem to be improving each season.

If we can open up some cap space by trading Nash and Staal, bring in some speed and smarts for the bottom six to replace Moore (maybe a Darren Helm?)...I don't see how we're that far off from a couple seasons ago.

Miller-Brass-Zuc
Kreider-Stepan-Buchnevich
Stalberg-Hayes-XXX
Helm-Lindberg-Fast

In a few years we're going to look back at this year and either be thankful they decided to rebuild and are feelign good about the future...or we're going to be caught in a perpetual feeling of having bad contracts and no kids to fill them in because we constantly try to give it another kick at the can while henrik is still in his prime.

Its over.

Where was this feeling in 14-15? I still don't really see what was that different. We had already lost Stralman and Boyle. We had MSL on his last legs. Staal and Girardi were already struggling. Is all this doom-and-gloom just because we lost Yandle?

 

[B17 Apricots]

I can see it going both ways. Frankly I think they can keep re-tooling on the fly and be contenders, they have a bunch of solid young guys. Personally though with the expansion coming up there's really no better time to rebuild. With the players we have trading them should bring back high end prospects and picks that should make the "rebuild' relatively quick. If this is the route I'd say let Kreider-Hayes-Miller make up the top line maybe Buch-Lindberg-Fast the 2nd and see if guys like Jensen, Nieves, Hrivik can earn spots. I'd say keep McD, Skjei, McIlrath, Klein find out who you want to keep as a core, fill in with some vets/low risk FA's or other young assets acquired through trades. Just a side note, I would love to see those off the radar low risk guys. Just as an example look at how smith-pelly played when NJ gave him some top 6 minutes. It makes you wonder how guys like Etem, Khokhlachev, Weal could progress with open rosters. Not to compare skill sets but similar to Drouins original situation its hard for some of these skill guys to progress on bottom six roles.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

Since it's crazy time, I'll throw out my moves:

1. Nash (1.8M ret.) to DET for Athanasiou, Smith, 16th overall

2. Stepan for Barrie (if COL moves Duchene for a defenseman)

3. Sign Stamkos & Helm

4. Staal (1M ret.) for Roussel & 2nd

Kreider Stamkos Zuccarello
Athanasiou Brassard Buchnevich
Helm Hayes Miller
Roussel Lindberg Fast
Hrivik

McDonagh Barrie
Smith McIlrath
Skjei Girardi

Lundqvist
Raanta


Not the most realistic but it's fun!

 

[AIexisLafreniereNYR]

Rebuild and Rebrand! The entire team needs a shake up.

Trade:
Henrik Lundqvist
Ryan McDonagh
Rick Nash
Mats Zuccerelo
Derek Stepan
Derrick Brassard
Keith Yandle
Chris Kreider

Fire:
AV
Entire coaching staff
Jeff Gordon
Glen Sather
Sam Rosen
Joe Micheletti
John Giannone

Then:
James Dolan steps down.

Hire:
Lebron James becomes owner
Bernmeister as the General Manager
Mark Messier as the Head Coach
Ryan Graves and Brain Leetch (yes Brain Leetch not Brian) as Assistant Coach
Al Trautwig as Play by Play
Stan Fischler as Color Commentator
Dave Maloney as Rink Side Reporter

Bring back the Liberty jerseys.

Profit

 

[B17 Apricots]

Rebuild and Rebrand! The entire team needs a shake up.

Trade:
Henrik Lundqvist
Ryan McDonagh
Rick Nash
Mats Zuccerelo
Derek Stepan
Derrick Brassard
Keith Yandle
Chris Kreider

Fire:
AV
Entire coaching staff
Jeff Gordon
Glen Sather
Sam Rosen
Joe Micheletti
John Giannone

Then:
James Dolan steps down.

Hire:
Lebron James becomes owner
Bernmeister as the General Manager
Mark Messier as the Head Coach
Ryan Graves and Brain Leetch (yes Brain Leetch not Brian) as Assistant Coach
Al Trautwig as Play by Play
Stan Fischler as Color Commentator
Dave Maloney as Rink Side Reporter

Bring back the Liberty jerseys.

Profit

If you really want to win Avery would be behind the bench

 

[RangerBoy]

I don't think they're done yet.

I don't think bringing in a 6th round pick was the influx of youth discussed.

Let's have a little patience.

Patience is the word. This is not a 3 month retool. The Rangers need significant team building to go on. This is a 3-4-5 year build to get the Rangers back to legit contenders.

 

[Edge]

Rebuild and Rebrand! The entire team needs a shake up.

Trade:
Henrik Lundqvist
Ryan McDonagh
Rick Nash
Mats Zuccerelo
Derek Stepan
Derrick Brassard
Keith Yandle
Chris Kreider

Fire:
AV
Entire coaching staff
Jeff Gordon
Glen Sather
Sam Rosen
Joe Micheletti
John Giannone

Then:
James Dolan steps down.

Hire:
Lebron James becomes owner
Bernmeister as the General Manager
Mark Messier as the Head Coach
Ryan Graves and Brain Leetch (yes Brain Leetch not Brian) as Assistant Coach
Al Trautwig as Play by Play
Stan Fischler as Color Commentator
Dave Maloney as Rink Side Reporter

Bring back the Liberty jerseys.

Profit

You forgot:

Rebuild MSG
Draft Matthew Tkachuk and Luke Kunin
Sign Stamkos
Punch out God
Bring back WWF Ice Cream Bars

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Patience is the word. This is not a 3 month retool. The Rangers need significant team building to go on. This is a 3-4-5 year build to get the Rangers back to legit contenders.

If done right, I genuinely believe it can be completed in three years - and can be fun to watch along the way.

That said, much as I would like to see it, it's highly unlikely they blow it all up this offseason. Much more realistic is trades now, trades at the deadline and then trades next offseason (which will be nuts with LV coming into the league). By that point, you could conceivably have your new core, and you're looking to add once more going into the POs for 2017-2018, with a potential cup contender in 2018-2019.

 

[Off Sides]

Patience is the word. This is not a 3 month retool. The Rangers need significant team building to go on. This is a 3-4-5 year build to get the Rangers back to legit contenders.

I hope they are thinking the same thing. It took 3-4-5 years to "go for it" it's going to take about the same to get back to where they were before all that.

If they are really patient and turning the corner coincides with them coming out of a work stoppage in 2019 (should that happen if one side or the other opts out of the CBA, where there may be more amnesty buyouts and CBA rule changes) I may even stop being so cynical and actually believe they have a long term plan that includes some degree of foresight instead of what my current theory is, that basically they run the team by acquiring players they like.

 

[rvdnsx]

How about Girardi (maybe 1-1.5M retained) plus a late pick

To

Columbus for Hartnell

We get a contract back with less term.

Ideally try to find a team trying to get to the floor and trade Girardi and a 5th or 6th for the other team's 7th

 

[True Blue]

If I was rangers GM I would do everything to send Henrik out a winner until his play started to significantly tail off. Then I'd trade him if I could, but he deserves to have one Cup given how superb he's been the last 5 or so years.

How do you define "winner"? If it is via Stanley Cup, then how will you make this team into a legit contender?

 

[KingWantsCup]

Here's an interesting question for you guys.

When Toews and Kane are old, and the Hawks' prospect pool is depleted from going for the cup and shipping out talent with sorry contracts just to free cap space, what do you think Chicago will do?

Will they say "this is Chicago, we play to win" or will they say "let's tank again and get (at least) three more friggin cups"?

 

[KingWantsCup]

Rebuild and Rebrand! The entire team needs a shake up.

Trade:
Henrik Lundqvist
Ryan McDonagh
Rick Nash
Mats Zuccerelo
Derek Stepan
Derrick Brassard
Keith Yandle
Chris Kreider

Fire:
AV
Entire coaching staff
Jeff Gordon
Glen Sather
Sam Rosen
Joe Micheletti
John Giannone

Then:
James Dolan steps down.

Hire:
Lebron James becomes owner
Bernmeister as the General Manager
Mark Messier as the Head Coach
Ryan Graves and Brain Leetch (yes Brain Leetch not Brian) as Assistant Coach
Al Trautwig as Play by Play
Stan Fischler as Color Commentator
Dave Maloney as Rink Side Reporter

Bring back the Liberty jerseys.

Profit

All gold. The Bernmeister one though.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Here's an interesting question for you guys.

When Toews and Kane are old, and the Hawks' prospect pool is depleted from going for the cup and shipping out talent with sorry contracts just to free cap space, what do you think Chicago will do?

Will they say "this is Chicago, we play to win" or will they say "let's tank again and get (at least) three more friggin cups"?

Oo! Oo! I can play this game too: have you stopped beating your wife?

Now, back to the real world, where we're allowed to apply nuance, context, and changeable variables when considering the answers to questions, here's what I think will happen:

IF Chicago has the wherewithal to realistically pursue the cup, and the assets to support that effort, they will go for it; and IF they do NOT, they will NOT tilt at windmills in a doomed-from-the-start pointless attempt to get to get to the promised land, which will only set the team back years in ever becoming relevant again, but will rather begin another rebuild.

The Rangers have done the former basically since Hank established himself as a star (including IMO before they were ready); now they've fired all their bullets, and he's had his shots, leaving the arsenal empty. Time for a rebuild. The only real question should be whether he wants to stay here through it as the graceful elder statesman in goal, or would prefer to be dealt to a contender that can give him a REALISTIC shot of winning before he retires.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Oo! Oo! I can play this game too: have you stopped beating your wife?

Now, back to the real world, where we're allowed to apply nuance, context, and changeable variables when considering the answers to questions, here's what I think will happen:

IF Chicago has the wherewithal to realistically pursue the cup, and the assets to support that effort, they will go for it; and IF they do NOT, they will NOT tilt at windmills in a doomed-from-the-start pointless attempt to get to get to the promised land, which will only set the team back years in ever becoming relevant again, but will rather begin another rebuild.

The Rangers have done the former basically since Hank established himself as a star (including IMO before they were ready); now they've fired all their bullets, and he's had his shots, leaving the arsenal empty. Time for a rebuild. The only real question should be whether he wants to stay here through it as the graceful elder statesman in goal, or would prefer to be dealt to a contender that can give him a REALISTIC shot of winning before he retires.

I appreciate the opinion, but I personally still don't see it. Our prospect pool is bare, but we have a ton of young talent on the roster. Young talent with tons and tons of playoff (and international) experience. I just don't see the doom-and-gloom that everyone else does. We have some dead weight salary wise, and I personally think we'll be able to offload that dead weight much more easily than fans here expect.

If we offload Nash and get some smaller pieces back, offload Staal, and sign Shattenkirk next year, and meanwhile Miller, Hayes, Lindberg, Fast, Skjei, McIlrath continue to develop, and Henrik remains elite...we're in excellent shape. 100% a cup contender.

 

[True Blue]

I just don't see the doom-and-gloom that everyone else does.

I'd say that the first round of the playoffs was exhibit A. Or pretty much any game in which Henke was not standing on his head during the season.

If we offload Nash and get some smaller pieces back, offload Staal, and sign Shattenkirk next year, and meanwhile Miller, Hayes, Lindberg, Fast, Skjei, McIlrath continue to develop, and Henrik remains elite...we're in excellent shape. 100% a cup contender.

That is a whole lot of "ifs" and "buts". Meanwhile, Henke showed himself to be maybe not on that usual elite level. He might never return to where he was two years ago.

The Rangers were NOT a Cup contender last year. Not sure if band aids will be enough to make them one.

 

[JohnnyBerts]

Rangers are toast. The NHL changed and New York (Sather) got caught with the wool over their eyes. It's too quick and skilled now. They should have kept Hagelin and not committed to Henrik, as much as I like him. It's over for the Rangers. They can tweak and make the playoffs but they'll never get past the first round.

 

[mrhockey193195]

I'd say that the first round of the playoffs was exhibit A. Or pretty much any game in which Henke was not standing on his head during the season.

That is a whole lot of "ifs" and "buts". Meanwhile, Henke showed himself to be maybe not on that usual elite level. He might never return to where he was two years ago.

The Rangers were NOT a Cup contender last year. Not sure if band aids will be enough to make them one.

One season of losing in the first round, after making the ECF three of four seasons prior. And we lost to the hottest team in the NHL and eventual cup champions.

I'm not saying we didn't have issues last year. We've all identified the poor possession play of our defense, and that should slowly get better giving more ice time to Skjei, McIlrath, less ice time to Girardi, and off-loading Staal. Maybe also by moving back to a zone defense.

A lot of our forwards struggled all year, especially in the defensive zone with coverage. I attribute a lot of that to fatigue. A guy like Stepan doesn't just forget how to play defense. He will be better this season in his own end, mark my words.

I definitely agree that we need to round out our bottom six with players who are defensively responsible, but who also can transition to the offensive zone and cycle the puck.

 

[LeetchisGod]

I have been a Ranger fan since 1988. They have been retooling for that entire time. It's worked once.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I don't think they're done yet.

I don't think bringing in a 6th round pick was the influx of youth discussed.

Let's have a little patience.

What exactly are we patient about.....?

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

Patience is the word. This is not a 3 month retool. The Rangers need significant team building to go on. This is a 3-4-5 year build to get the Rangers back to legit contenders.

Based on?

Oh, nothing? Got it.

Despite a couple of bad contracts (one VERY bad), and a very poor performance after playing a ton of hockey over 3 years with shorter offseason a to recover than nearly every other team, this team is still much closer to Cup contender than they are to basement dweller.

This team is a few smart moves away from being back in the SCF.

We still have Henrik Lundqvist too. Don't blatantly leave him out to dry all game every game and he's still an annual Vezina candidate.

This team lacks shoot-first players and MOBILE defensemen.

I don't care if we get a D-man who scores 0 goals a year, I want someone who can skate the puck out of trouble and beat a forecheck on his own with his skating or a smart first pass (cough Stralman cough).

And I think it would be great if the best shot on the team didn't belong to Kevin Klein heading into next season. That's pathetic. We don't even have anyone who can get a shot through to the net for a deflection/rebound on a consistent enough basis.

A few smart moves changes the whole dynamic of the team though.

We're still so much closer to the top than the bottom.

PIT lost in 5 to us last year and looked totally lost. Hell, they looked totally lost until Hagelin & Sullivan came in.

Did they bring in some all stars and "fix their D?" Nope. Same bunch. Ian Cole, Kris Letang, Ben Lovejoy. Dumolin is a good player; Daley really isn't but the Pens entire team (forwards) played such great team D that the defense were able to simplify their games and play to their strengths. So much less pressure.

That Penguins top-6 might be the worst group of defensemen to ever win The Cup. They played great team defense, added speed and grit to their lineup, and got everything to the net.

It's not out of the realm of possibility for them to be back in the ECF or SCF next year if they make the right moves, build chemistry and get hot at the right time.