RD Timothy Liljegren (2017, 17th, TOR) IV

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nbwingsfan

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Multiple guys in his draft year are also well adjusted to the league. From the first rounders alone, Cal Foote has played more AHL regular season games than Liljegren, while Vaakanainen is in his second AHL season after several years of pro hockey in Finland. Neither are still adjusting to the league by any means.

I’m not saying there aren’t any, just not many examples of it. Vaak has an entire season less than Liljegren and only 30 games played his first year too. Foote also has one less year and I don’t think Tampa fans are very high on him either.

It should really be no surprise that the more you play in a league, the more adjusted you become. Especially early in your career in a new league.
 

TheGoldenJet

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I’m not saying there aren’t any, just not many examples of it. Vaak has an entire season less than Liljegren and only 30 games played his first year too. Foote also has one less year and I don’t think Tampa fans are very high on him either.

It should really be no surprise that the more you play in a league, the more adjusted you become. Especially early in your career in a new league.

Cask has split time between the NHL and the AHL both last year and this year, he is by no means still adjusting to the AHL.

And I don’t buy that you keep adjusting indefinitely the more you play in a league. Once you’ve adjusted, you’ve adjusted.
 

Alikhan Alizada

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When non Leafs are cherry pick plays to say he is bad, you know Lilly is doing well. Lilly has been amazing and one of the best defencemen in the league. He is ready for the NHL. The Leafs management are saying the same thing.

I feel like Toronto should start him in the Ahl next season for 10-15 games b4 he makes his debut. Just to ease the transition even more. Never can be too careful. Is he considered as an offensive defenceman or 2 way D? I kinda hear both I always thought he was an offensive D
 

acrobaticgoalie

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I feel like Toronto should start him in the Ahl next season for 10-15 games b4 he makes his debut. Just to ease the transition even more. Never can be too careful. Is he considered as an offensive defenceman or 2 way D? I kinda hear both I always thought he was an offensive D
When drafted he was a high risk offensive Dman, who I thought had pretty good gap control back then but made high risk plays trying to generate offense that would end up as an odd man rush. He also needed to add strength. When he first arrived in the AHL he was getting outmuscled a lot.

Since then people didn't see the point totals that they were expecting from him in his first couple seasons with the Marlies but I think the staff wanted him to focus more on the defensive end and try to eliminate his high risk plays and slow the game down and make smart decisions. He really has done that over the last 3 seasons. He also is now built like a fire hydrant and we don't see him getting knocked down much anymore.

Now I would consider him a 2 way D man who is solid in his end and excellent in transition. He is starting to put up the numbers we were expecting as his role has increased and has got a role as the pp quarter back. I have watched him live 3 times so far this year and around 10 games on tv and has been the best D man on the Marlies including Sandin. Winter soldier just cherry picks videos of him getting beat to try to say he is a horrible defensman and a bust. I could do the same thing to someone like Drew Doughty, doesn't mean he is a bad D man.
 

Knies iT

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When drafted he was a high risk offensive Dman, who I thought had pretty good gap control back then but made high risk plays trying to generate offense that would end up as an odd man rush. He also needed to add strength. When he first arrived in the AHL he was getting outmuscled a lot.

Since then people didn't see the point totals that they were expecting from him in his first couple seasons with the Marlies but I think the staff wanted him to focus more on the defensive end and try to eliminate his high risk plays and slow the game down and make smart decisions. He really has done that over the last 3 seasons. He also is now built like a fire hydrant and we don't see him getting knocked down much anymore.

Now I would consider him a 2 way D man who is solid in his end and excellent in transition. He is starting to put up the numbers we were expecting as his role has increased and has got a role as the pp quarter back. I have watched him live 3 times so far this year and around 10 games on tv and has been the best D man on the Marlies including Sandin. Winter soldier just cherry picks videos of him getting beat to try to say he is a horrible defensman and a bust. I could do the same thing to someone like Drew Doughty, doesn't mean he is a bad D man.
Agreed, I compare his progression to Kapanen who also completely changed his game since coming overseas. To echo a few points:

Lilj is a unique modern defensemen. I'd say his greatest strength is transition game, rather than offense/defense. He moves the puck up ice better than most D-men in his league and has elite breakout passing ability. He can go tape to tape 100ft like its nothing. His evasiveness in the d-zone is Gardiner/Girard-esque which makes him effective against heavy forechecking teams like Charlotte, where he showed he was individually better than guys like Bean, Fleury, etc. head to head in their playoff series last season, despite losing.

Draft: diminutive, high-skill, one-dimensional offensive D-man.
D+1: put up historic numbers for his age group as an 18 year old given mostly defensive tasks.
D+2: top PK, started the season slow production wise, got injured (missed WJC), and then finished the season with a monster playoff run that was the best hockey we had seen from him to that point.
D+3: overall dominant both offensively and defensively, finally given top PP time, best PPG of his age group for D, much bigger physically.

I'd definitely classify him as 2-way but he is solid across the board. Far from perfect, but can complement any pair he's on.
 

Randy Randerson

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Cask has split time between the NHL and the AHL both last year and this year, he is by no means still adjusting to the AHL.

And I don’t buy that you keep adjusting indefinitely the more you play in a league. Once you’ve adjusted, you’ve adjusted.
I saw an analysis once on KHL players that come over as mature players, like 22/23+ I think was the parameter, and it was surprising how long it took before most of them kept improving for....iirc it was like 4-5 seasons before they stopped getting better and the timeline didn't align with the normal peak-by-age, it was much later for the KHL guys

I don't remember what it was called or where to find it, but I thought that was sort of relevant


also that said, I think the argument that Liljegren is doing well only because he's been in the AHL so long is wrought with agenda and it's not surprising who that argument is coming from. Should that be a consideration when comparing him to his peer group by production as a 20yo AHL'er when they haven't had the same experience? Sure I think that's valid. But to look at the list of guys that he's performing like, and performing better than, and speculate that those players (Carlson, Josi, etc) aren't within his range of outcomes seems utterly baseless to me, especially for a guy that was expected to compete for a #1OA pick going into his draft year.....like all of the things that the scouts loved just disappeared, especially given that it's tough to separate what was his decision making and what was the mono in his draft year? That's way out on a limb to me.
 

slimbob8

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Aug 11, 2016
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Now I would consider him a 2 way D man who is solid in his end and excellent in transition. He is starting to put up the numbers we were expecting as his role has increased and has got a role as the pp quarter back. I have watched him live 3 times so far this year and around 10 games on tv and has been the best D man on the Marlies including Sandin.

The bolded is key and I keep hearing it from everyone that actually watches the games. Not to mention the team's own coach trusts Liljegren in the most difficult usage situations over anyone on the roster. Nobody disputes Sandin's ability anymore yet you hear endless critisicms about Liljegren's for some reason despite him being the best d-man on the team according to the people in the know.

Just the other day on tsn Ottawa radio they were commenting on how Liljegren hadn't panned out. Such an ignorant comment coming from someone that's supposed to be knowledgeable. I have no doubt that opinion was formed after 20 seconds of hockeydb research as well. IMO being so highly toughted pre-draft is the only reason so many people have these baseless opinions on him still.
 

acrobaticgoalie

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The bolded is key and I keep hearing it from everyone that actually watches the games. Not to mention the team's own coach trusts Liljegren in the most difficult usage situations over anyone on the roster. Nobody disputes Sandin's ability anymore yet you hear endless critisicms about Liljegren's for some reason despite him being the best d-man on the team according to the people in the know.

Just the other day on tsn Ottawa radio they were commenting on how Liljegren hadn't panned out. Such an ignorant comment coming from someone that's supposed to be knowledgeable. I have no doubt that opinion was formed after 20 seconds of hockeydb research as well. IMO being so highly toughted pre-draft is the only reason so many people have these baseless opinions on him still.
Even Bryan Hayes on TSN Toronto radio craps on Lilly all the time saying he is a bust even though he doesn't even watch the Marlies. Bob McKenzie made him look bad last week saying the Leafs organization views Lilly as the better player this year for the Marlies over Sandin and that the only reason Sandin got the call up over him was because of handedness when Rielly and Muzzin went down. Then Hayes said "oh , really?"

Calling a 20 year old defensemen a bust is beyond ridiculous.
People shouldn't make dumb statements if they don't know what they're talking about.
 

slimbob8

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Calling a 20 year old defensemen a bust is beyond ridiculous.
People shouldn't make dumb statements if they don't know what they're talking about.

It's one thing for random fans to make dumb statements, but for people that are paid to analyze hockey for a living you'd think they'd put a little more effort into their analysis than just looking at hockeydb.
 

chamchibap

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Jun 15, 2018
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I thought Holl and Barrie did not play well at all tonight and Lily could have played more. Lily didn’t have any terrible turnovers other than maybe the pass to Timashov who turned it over and ended up in a shot off the crossbar. Think he’ll look better and better as he settles in. Exciting days!
 

Orfieus

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He was solid in limited sheltered minutes. Liljegren is my favorite prospect (not saying he is better than Sandin, I just love watching him play and yes I do subscribe to the AHL Home&Away Marlies package) and he played well against a slow but physical forecheck and I'm excited to see how he plays against the total opposite of that against Montreal

Liljegren is going to at least get a point, hoping for a goal!
 
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StatsNightHeroes

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I thought Holl and Barrie did not play well at all tonight and Lily could have played more. Lily didn’t have any terrible turnovers other than maybe the pass to Timashov who turned it over and ended up in a shot off the crossbar. Think he’ll look better and better as he settles in. Exciting days!

Timashov didn’t have much time with the puck there but it was right on his tape and you’d expect a winger in the NHL to be able to make that play. I don’t recall the play well enough to say what other options Liljgren had but I do remember thinking the pass was a little too telegraphed and put Timashov in abit of a tight spot despite Liljgren not really being under much pressure. Regardless, if that was his “worst” play of the night I’ll take that 11 times out of 10.
 

The Winter Soldier

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Thread got pretty quiet all of a sudden.
Now why do you have to go there? Can we not just make comments on the player? You are just inviting posters to quote you later on. Is that what you want? Anaheim is not a good team, it was a nice soft spot to get a start in. Some fans have commented on why posters just bring up Lilegren's negatives and not just positives. You can see why when you invite comments to this thread by calling out posters.
 
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Now why do you have to go there? Can we not just make comments on the player? You are just inviting posters to quote you later on. Is that what you want? Anaheim is not a good team, it was a nice soft spot to get a start in. Some fans have commented on why posters just bring up Lilegren's negatives and not just positives. You can see why when you invite comments to this thread by calling out posters.
Are you ok?
 

NiL8r87

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Jun 30, 2009
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Now why do you have to go there? Can we not just make comments on the player? You are just inviting posters to quote you later on. Is that what you want? Anaheim is not a good team, it was a nice soft spot to get a start in. Some fans have commented on why posters just bring up Lilegren's negatives and not just positives. You can see why when you invite comments to this thread by calling out posters.

I'll assume on good faith you've brought up positives at some point.
 
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stickty111

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Another solid game by Lilly. You can tell he looks nervous.
The thread won't get much attention though since he is playing well.
 
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chamchibap

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Jun 15, 2018
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Timashov didn’t have much time with the puck there but it was right on his tape and you’d expect a winger in the NHL to be able to make that play. I don’t recall the play well enough to say what other options Liljgren had but I do remember thinking the pass was a little too telegraphed and put Timashov in abit of a tight spot despite Liljgren not really being under much pressure. Regardless, if that was his “worst” play of the night I’ll take that 11 times out of 10.
Definitely agree. That was the only thing i could think of if i was really nitpicking. He looked great today too. If he and sandin can keep getting stronger on their skates and clearing the front of the net, they’ll be a pretty strong pairing next year. They’re already looking pretty great. Quieter and less anxiety-inducing than dermott barrie for sure
 
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