Raptors Discussion: Raptors name Nick Nurse as new head coach

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

VORP

Tatum: 1.8
Brown: 1.0
Rozier: 2.0

Poeltl: 2.0
Siakam: 1.7
OG: 1.0

I think people vastly underrate the ceiling of this Raps squad. They remain one of the youngest teams in the league, comparable to the Celts and 76ers. Not to mention playoff OG was rocking a .695 TS%.

Terry Rozier is 24. The following players on the Raptors are 25 or younger:
- Poeltl (C): 2.0 Vorp
- Siakam (PF): 1.7 Vorp
- Wright (PG): 1.7 Vorp
- Valanciunas (C): 1.5 Vorp
- VanVleet (PG): 1.5 Vorp
- Anunoby (SF): 1.0 Vorp
- Noguiera (C): 0.8 Vorp

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nope, just not petulant enough to be upset about trying.

Very well said!

VORP

Tatum: 1.8
Brown: 1.0
Rozier: 2.0

Poeltl: 2.0
Siakam: 1.7
OG: 1.0

I think people vastly underrate the ceiling of this Raps squad. They remain one of the youngest teams in the league, comparable to the Celts and 76ers. Not to mention playoff OG was rocking a .695 TS%.

OG is so amazing. Not sure how good he can get but who knows, may he and some of our other young talent get so good that they can contend in a couple of years? If that's the case, tearing it all down seems so dumb, part of how you learn how to win is by you know, winning.

Fact is, Toronto will never win an NBA title. This league is superstar driven, where 1 player can pretty much dominate, if you have 2 you are almost guaranteed to make the finals. Toronto will never get one of these players, and if they somehow do manage to get one through the draft, they will most likely leave the first chance they get. No top tier free agent is ever signing here, so the only way to acquire such talent is via the draft. If they keep this core together, all it guarantees is a good regular season record, poor playoff performances and draft picks in the 20's. Welcome to insanity.

I hear stuff like this a lot and I think there's some truth there. Not sure how much but maybe it's all true. If it is all true, that's another reason not to tear it all down because what't the point? If you know you're never going to win than either stop watching if titles are all that matter or if not, enjoy what other success the teams has without titling. And you never know, if you do manage to get to the finals in any given year and the star you're up against get injured, the door swings open so you just never know. I know some people had such thoughts when Curry got injured.

Anyhow, there are some angry people ITT, do try to cheer up and and enjoy the summer. And on another note, I'm enjoying watching Boston play. And you know what, I've also enjoyed watching the Raptors play this season. Just a reminder to myself that basketball can be fun to watch, even if there is nothing but the slimmest imaginable possibility of a title at the end of the line.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

@Gary Nylund IMO, if the 25 and under crew played a simulation of 17/18 as starters (including terrible Norm Powell), they would have contended for the 7th or 8th seed. They're that good.

As for OG, if he turns into Trevor Ariza (age 23 onward) it would be a homerun pick and a tremendous piece on a contender.

 

[BlueForever75]

Watching the Cavs-Celtics first two games really shows how badly Casey and staff planned for the Cavs. The Celtics are doing exactly what Indiana did to the Cavs and are succeeding as Indiana did. Let Lebron do his thing but shut down the rest of the team. Lebron isn't going to hit every shot. So what that he goes off for 40+ pts with a triple double every game. The rest of the team if you guard them will not score.

I really don't get what Casey was thinking. I honestly don't. This really proves firing Casey was the correct call. The players on the court played to his strategy which in the end cost him the series and his job.

There is no way that the Celtics have players that are better then Lowry and Derozan. Not with their two allstars out. But the system they are playing against the Cavs like Indiana did is whats making them win. And win easily.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Boston is rubbing salt in our wounds.

 

[TimPeel]

Most Toronto teams seem to employ losers with loser mentalities. Our series against the Cavs was over before it started. Remember DeFrozen's comments after being swept last year? Send this loser to another city where he can pine on about 'diversity'. Watching those Google commercials for these losers was entertaining though.

 

[BlueForever75]

Boston is rubbing salt in our wounds.

Big time, and all to do with coaching.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Most Toronto teams seem to employ losers with loser mentalities. Our series against the Cavs was over before it started. Remember DeFrozen's comments after being swept last year? Send this loser to another city where he can pine on about 'diversity'. Watching those Google commercials for these losers was entertaining though.

I don't, what did he say?

 

[BlueForever75]

Most Toronto teams seem to employ losers with loser mentalities. Our series against the Cavs was over before it started. Remember DeFrozen's comments after being swept last year? Send this loser to another city where he can pine on about 'diversity'. Watching those Google commercials for these losers was entertaining though.

Sorry but I think you are totally wrong. The city of Toronto hasn't had this much winning mentality in a very long time. Leafs best season in franchise history, Raptors best season in franchise history, TFC best MLS season ever and a championship, and the Argos winning the Grey Cup. Yes we haven't won championships in every major sport, but we sure have a winning tradition the past couple of years.

Championships are not always a given, but giving fans and the city something to follow and success is what they have all done. Give you head a shake you can always be living in Carolina, or someplace else where their sports teams utterly suck in every sport. Be happy and support your teams instead of being some bandwagon jumper.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Boston is rubbing salt in our wounds.

Moreso showing a blueprint of how proper x's and o's coaching can defeat a Lebron James team (outside of the big three Heat squads...those were just silly)

Most Toronto teams seem to employ losers with loser mentalities. Our series against the Cavs was over before it started. Remember DeFrozen's comments after being swept last year? Send this loser to another city where he can pine on about 'diversity'. Watching those Google commercials for these losers was entertaining though.

Wat.

 

[BlueForever75]

Moreso showing a blueprint of how proper x's and o's coaching can defeat a Lebron James team (outside of the big three Heat squads...those were just silly)



Wat.

What is really hurting right now is the fact that the Casey led team was shown the blueprint against the Cavs from the Pacers. All Casey had to do was implement the same plan and we would have blown them away. Our team is much better the Indiana.

He couldn't even do that right!!! It really is starting to show that coaching was the issue and not necessarily the players.

 

[CupFever]

Coaching was definitely an issue but we can't overlook our flawed roster. The difference between our team and the Celtics/Pacers is that we have players who are one dimensional. Our guards are offensively gifted but are limited defensively, they can only defend 1 or 2 positions and this creates mismatches on switches. Our forwards are good defensively but can't dribble and put pressure on opposing players thus allowing Lebron to rest on the defensive end.

 

[Eyedea]

Coaching was definitely an issue but we can't overlook our flawed roster. The difference between our team and the Celtics/Pacers is that we have players who are one dimensional. Our guards are offensively gifted but are limited defensively, they can only defend 1 or 2 positions and this creates mismatches on switches. Our forwards are good defensively but can't dribble and put pressure on opposing players thus allowing Lebron to rest on the defensive end.

Basically we're talking about DeRozan and Miles, but generalizing the entire team.

I'd be willing to bet the Celtics defence isn't as pristine as it looks right now if Irving and Hayward were in.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

I don't, what did he say?

I posted this earlier.

DeRozan's quote after losing to the Cavs this season

“Maybe they just got our number,” he said. “Things just don’t go right for us. We couldn’t get it done. We had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity.”

This is what we call loser mentality.

DeRozan's quote after losing to the Cavs last season

"Raptors would have won with LeBron James"

 

[BlueForever75]

These quotes don't make DD a loser, its him being a realist as every one of us should be. Lebron likes playing against the Raps and he does have our number.

Its what every analyst out there is saying but some are just to dumb to realize it.

Is Ovechkin a loser? How about Westbrook or Harden? All superstars that cant get it done against certain teams and players. Doesn't make them losers, just makes the opposition more superior.

 

[Suntouchable13]

These quotes don't make DD a loser, its him being a realist as every one of us should be. Lebron likes playing against the Raps and he does have our number.

Its what every analyst out there is saying but some are just to dumb to realize it.

Is Ovechkin a loser? How about Westbrook or Harden? All superstars that cant get it done against certain teams and players. Doesn't make them losers, just makes the opposition more superior.

You shouldn't just accept it, you should find ways to beat them. Boston is having no trouble, so far. It's not all on the coach. It's the personnel too. Raps are most likely the only playoff team in the East that would get swept by this trash ass Cleveland team. Still don't know why people believe that this is a good core. After what I have seen in multiple playoff series, this is not a good core. They royally f***ed up this season.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Casey's biggest mistake is giving DeRozan way too many minutes

DeRozan should've been stapled on the bench most of the time based on his play. And every time he was sitting on the bench, our team played better than the Cavs

 

[Gary Nylund]

I posted this earlier.

DeRozan's quote after losing to the Cavs this season

“Maybe they just got our number,” he said. “Things just don’t go right for us. We couldn’t get it done. We had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity.”

This is what we call loser mentality.

DeRozan's quote after losing to the Cavs last season

"Raptors would have won with LeBron James"

Thanks.

These quotes don't make DD a loser, its him being a realist as every one of us should be. Lebron likes playing against the Raps and he does have our number.

Its what every analyst out there is saying but some are just to dumb to realize it.

Is Ovechkin a loser? How about Westbrook or Harden? All superstars that cant get it done against certain teams and players. Doesn't make them losers, just makes the opposition more superior.

Also, quotes said right after a devastating loss shouldn't be taken at face value, heat of the moment and all that. And one off quotes should be taken with a grain of salt in general. I remember Sergio Garcia saying a few years ago that he just doesn't have what it takes to win a major or words to that effect. Now that's a classic loser mentality right? But then he goes and wins the Masters, oops.

Or wait, should I not be using that as an analogy because it's not Basketball, apples to oranges and all that?

You shouldn't just accept it, you should find ways to beat them. Boston is having no trouble, so far. It's not all on the coach. It's the personnel too. Raps are most likely the only playoff team in the East that would get swept by this trash ass Cleveland team. Still don't know why people believe that this is a good core. After what I have seen in multiple playoff series, this is not a good core.

It's on everyone, plenty of blame to go around. As far as "good" core goes, good is a relative term. But if you think they can't win and will never win etc., god bless you my man, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Everyone thought PIT would easily dispatch WSH too (oops, there I go again with hockey, never mind).

 

[Eyedea]

Or maybe it is a good core and the coach failed to put them into a position to succeed? Casey was known for zone defence, and he hasn't been able to figure out how to combat the new era of ball.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Thanks.



Also, quotes said right after a devastating loss shouldn't be taken at face value, heat of the moment and all that. And one off quotes should be taken with a grain of salt in general. I remember Sergio Garcia saying a few years ago that he just doesn't have what it takes to win a major or words to that effect. Now that's a classic loser mentality right? But then he goes and wins the Masters, oops.

Or wait, should I not be using that as an analogy because it's not Basketball, apples to oranges and all that?



It's on everyone, plenty of blame to go around. As far as "good" core goes, good is a relative term. But if you think they can't win and will never win etc., god bless you my man, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Everyone thought PIT would easily dispatch WSH too (oops, there I go again with hockey, never mind).

So far, they have not proven that they can win. They wilt under pressure. This was their chance and they blew it.

 

[BlueForever75]

Or maybe it is a good core and the coach failed to put them into a position to succeed? Casey was known for zone defence, and he hasn't been able to figure out how to combat the new era of ball.

BINGO

We have a winner

 

[CupFever]

Basically we're talking about DeRozan and Miles, but generalizing the entire team.

I'd be willing to bet the Celtics defence isn't as pristine as it looks right now if Irving and Hayward were in.

Our forwards and wing players are limited offensively. Siakam OG and Ibaka vs Horford Tatum and Brown.

 

[BlueForever75]

Our forwards and wing players are limited offensively. Siakam OG and Ibaka vs Horford Tatum and Brown.

But our backcourt is better then Boston's as is our center position. Whats the point? We have 3 of 5 positions that are better then Boston, while the other 2 are still average players and bring different intangibles to the game. Boston without Irving and Hayward shouldn't be having this success against Cleveland I'm sorry. And if they are its because of coaching and strategy not personnel.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

DeRozan after Game 2
"We thrive off of adversity"

DeRozan after Game 4
"Maybe they just got our number"

 

[Suntouchable13]

But our backcourt is better then Boston's as is our center position. Whats the point? We have 3 of 5 positions that are better then Boston, while the other 2 are still average players and bring different intangibles to the game. Boston without Irving and Hayward shouldn't be having this success against Cleveland I'm sorry. And if they are its because of coaching and strategy not personnel.

Everybody should have success against this Cleveland team because they are not good.

What did Boston do after last season's playoffs? They realized that their players will not get it done so they made actual personnel changes.