Rank the top 10 most valuable assets in the league today

b in vancouver

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???? Toronto, Colorado and Carolina have improved greatly over what they were a couple of years ago. It takes a few years for young talent to develope. It doesn't happen overnight even with some of the most talented guys. In a few years they could be better than teams like Boston and Pitts, if those teams don't have quality youth to develope. It's cyclical.


and those teams did what while their young stars were on ELCs? Those ELcs and RFA years just aren't the panachea people pretend they are. They really help if you're already a good team however most of the top-flight kids are going to terrible teams so the savings doesn't matter.

like - what good is it doing Buffalo right now to have Dahlin on an ELC? Great to have a young d-man like him in your organization - the kid is fantastic and will be a Norris candidate, but unless they're a heckuva lot better this year what does it matter? They'll most likely be three years out of the playoffs during those dreamy ELC years and then he's going to be making $10M before the team has done anything.
 
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Nipsey

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1. McDavid
2. Barkov
3. Kucherov
4. Pettersson
5. MacKinnon
6. Dahlin
7. Matthews
8. Hedman
9. Heiskanen
10. Eichel
 
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BananaSquad

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Wow almost every list has Buffalo with 2 of these top 10 assets.... maybe we can actually start winning soon, that would be nice.
 

bigbenbuffalo30

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Mar 6, 2018
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IMO

1. McDavid
2. MacKinnon
3. Barkov
4. Dahlin
5. Kucherov
6. Hedman
7. Matthews
8. Eichel
9. Pettersson
10. Heiskanen

MacK and Barkov are very close, but I'm very high on Barkov and see him play often and I'd still take Mac by a hair.
 

majormajor

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1. Mackinnon -------------- top player with a far better contract.
2. McDavid
3. Kucherov ------------ He just had 128 pts, get real people.
4. Jones
5. Crosby --------------- I think by the time Crosby stops being great, the ELC kids here will be getting paid far more than him.

6. Pettersson
7. Dahlin
8. Makar --------- Looks like an instant elite player to me, I have him ahead of Kakko and Hughes.
9. Barkov
10. Scheifele


I swear I'm not an Avs fan.
 

majormajor

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Obviously. Bolded makes a ton of sense. Who in the world would rather have McDavid vs Mackinnon after all right? Just think - last season Colorado played all year with MacKinnon and 10M$ in unused cap space. That Cap Space really helped them out in the playoffs. And this coming season - they have 16M$+ in cap space so far. I think Cap Space will score that SCF winning goal for them.

It never ceases to amaze me how much some hf'ers overvalue capspace. Cap space is worth absolutely nothing if you don't do anything with it. It's worth paying top players top$$ - and the value of a top player is still great even if their salaries are high. The value of Matthews is:

- How good he is today
-How good you expect him to continue being in future and for how long (critical - and most important component, and he scores excellent here)
- How long you realistically expect to be able to keep him on your team (how long is he signed for - is he likely to go UFA or stick/renew based on what you know/feel, etc)

His salary matters - but much less than those above factors. You simply pay for top players in the league. It's more about how long you can keep them how good you expect them to be, etc.

The Avs have an internal cap. If they had Matthews instead of Mackinnon they would have had 1) an inferior player, and 2) $5.5m less somewhere else on a team that was already depth starved. That would mean something like no Kadri or no Landeskog. They would have missed the playoffs by a country mile. I get that Matthews should continue to improve, but Mackinnon is already a Hart trophy candidate, and how much better than that do you expect Matthews to get? He is paid quite a bit more.

If it was just "you simply pay for top players in the league" then we would have no reason not to bid up ad infinitum for every free agent. Only a couple teams offered Panarin $12m+. Why not $15m? Do they not want valuable assets?
 

Tage2Tuch

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McDavid
Barkov
Kucherov
Hedman
Rantanen
Eichel
Matthews
Jones
Panarin
Mackinnon/Vasilevsky


HM: Marner, Gaudreau, Barzal, Pastrnak, Scheifele, Aho


I don’t care if Panarin is overpaid, his production is elite no matter where he plays and is dominant in offensive zone possession, he isn’t one dimensional and he’s still pretty young.



Need to see more out of one year players like Dahlin, Heiskanen, Petterson (who slowed down a bit as year went on) but could absolutely be here. I expect Kakko and Hughes to also both be borderline this as well, probably Kakko sooner.



It’s weird how the cup champs are just a well balanced team and don’t have a guy on here but petriangelo is a beast. Him and parayko are two of the most underrated dmen in the game. I’m really interested to see how well binnington does next year.
 
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Tage2Tuch

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Jack Eichel's is looking like a steal itself based on some numbers being thrown around some RFA's

It’s funny, he got that deal not even two years ago and I said everyone will be saying his contract is actually very reasonable within four years when his contract is only half way in. And it’s taken half THAT long. I love that we got 8 years too because its probably going to take six for buffalo to Get good if it happens. Lol



Why in the world do you have to bring heiskanen into your discussion about Dahlin being ranked too high? You might be a limited obsessed MrHeiskanen. There’s already a thread where you can ramble about how you think they are equal.


It’s interesting because I feel heiskanen gets way more praise from the media then dahlin (not hype wise before the draft or anything) largely because Dallas was a playoff team. Dahlin just had a season for the ages, the best 18 year old season for a dman ever next to housley. (And that was when scoring was just a tad easier.) he passed Bobby Orr for second, averaged 21 mins on a bad buffalo team, a corsi rating of 57, 9 goals and 44 points ya and danced around teams on a nightly basis as a kid. As a defensemen. ON BUFFALO.

Heiskanen isn’t that far back and I don’t think Makar or Bryam should be either but there’s enough reason to put dahlin ahead. He did better this year with less so I don’t know why he’s so angry. Especially since Heiskanen is getting plenty of love in here.
 
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TomasHertlsRooster

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It’s funny, he got that deal not even two years ago and I said everyone will be saying his contract is actually very reasonable within four years when his contract is only half way in. And it’s taken half THAT long. I love that we got 8 years too because its probably going to take six for buffalo to Get good if it happens. Lol






It’s interesting because I feel heiskanen gets way more praise from the media then dahlin (not hype wise before the draft or anything) largely because Dallas was a playoff team. Dahlin just had a season for the ages, the best 18 year old season for a dman ever next to housley. (And that was when scoring was just a tad easier.) he passed Bobby Orr for second, averaged 21 mins on a bad buffalo team, a corsi rating of 57, 9 goals and 44 points ya and danced around teams on a nightly basis as a kid. As a defensemen. ON BUFFALO.

Heiskanen isn’t that far back and I don’t think Makar or Bryam should be either but there’s enough reason to put dahlin ahead. He did better this year with less so I don’t know why he’s so angry. Especially since Heiskanen is getting plenty of love in here.

Where did you find this “Corsi rating” of 57?
 

Tage2Tuch

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Where did you find this “Corsi rating” of 57?

“CF% over 57 percent”, CLWM said it yeah.

I was going off the sabres twitter account with the title “historic rookie season” by the charging buffalo posted on April 6th.

I’m not a huge corsi guy but when we’re talking about an 18 year old defensemen ....
 

thedustman

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So “top assets” don’t seem to line up with success for teams at all...

then i guess they aren’t top assets.
 

thedustman

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Mcd mack and barkov of course. Anyone without o’reilly in the top ten is really thinking out of the box tho. How does no one on the stanley cup roster make the top ten? People think it was complete chemistry?

Mcdavid
Barkov
Mack
Oreilly
Aho
Zibanejad
I really think Defense should be separate
Kakko
Klingberg
Goalies anyone?
 

hockeyisgud

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Still insane that Matthews name always pops up in these.

If I had to make a list of top 10 liabilities in the league right now it would be something like:

1. Milan Lucic
2. Loui Eriksson
3. Auston Matthews

Matthews is an unproven, slow, not dynamic, not smart, mediocre player with a great knack of scoring goals who is getting paid more money than any player in the league for some random reason that nobody understands. His value for his contract is absolutely abysmal and the only reason he isn't the #1 liability is because the 2 above him are somehow even worse. Toronto had everything going for them if they played their cards right but they randomly paid an unproven mediocre player billions of dollars for a crazy amount of time. Toronto has no chance of winning the cup now in the next 20 or so years and although it makes me sad as a Canadian, they deserve it for the stupidity of their actions.
 

bobholly39

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Still insane that Matthews name always pops up in these.

If I had to make a list of top 10 liabilities in the league right now it would be something like:

1. Milan Lucic
2. Loui Eriksson
3. Auston Matthews

Matthews is an unproven, slow, not dynamic, not smart, mediocre player with a great knack of scoring goals who is getting paid more money than any player in the league for some random reason that nobody understands. His value for his contract is absolutely abysmal and the only reason he isn't the #1 liability is because the 2 above him are somehow even worse. Toronto had everything going for them if they played their cards right but they randomly paid an unproven mediocre player billions of dollars for a crazy amount of time. Toronto has no chance of winning the cup now in the next 20 or so years and although it makes me sad as a Canadian, they deserve it for the stupidity of their actions.

You clearly are either trolling or simply really dislike or undervalue Matthews (or both).

But just remember the premise of this thread isnt meant to be how you personally think top players *should* be valued. Its how they actually are valued across the league.

If Dubas called up your favorite team tomorow morning and said "hey we decided to trade Matthews. We like your teams best player we'll trade you 1vs1 for Matthews". Unless you're an Oilers fan, an Avs fan or a fan of maybe a handful of other teams in the league - odds are your team's gm says "deal - when can i pick up Matthews at the airport".

Ie - hes seen as a top 10 asset in the league quite easily so.
 

bobholly39

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The Avs have an internal cap. If they had Matthews instead of Mackinnon they would have had 1) an inferior player, and 2) $5.5m less somewhere else on a team that was already depth starved. That would mean something like no Kadri or no Landeskog. They would have missed the playoffs by a country mile. I get that Matthews should continue to improve, but Mackinnon is already a Hart trophy candidate, and how much better than that do you expect Matthews to get? He is paid quite a bit more.

If it was just "you simply pay for top players in the league" then we would have no reason not to bid up ad infinitum for every free agent. Only a couple teams offered Panarin $12m+. Why not $15m? Do they not want valuable assets?

If I'm a fan of a team that's looking to build long-term, instead of "win now" - which is probably the case of at least 10-15 teams in the league, if not more - maybe more than half - Matthews vs McKinnon is an interesting dilemma.

McKinnon is better now, clearly. But he's a bit older. He was definitely slower at start of his career with 2 down years (maybe it means nothing now that he's so good - maybe it's a bit worrisome/implies he might fall off faster too/be less consistent in his career?). And - he wasn't as high a prospect as Matthews, meaning that Matthews was always seen as the player likely to peak higher and have the better career. There very obvious reasons to pick McKinnon over Matthews - but there are also some to consider Matthews long-term as the better investment.

But to be fair - I also picked McKinnon over Matthews, i just think it's somewhat close. In the post of mine you quoted i was talking about why McDavid > McKinnon - not Matthews. You take McDavid over McKinnon even at the higher salary even if it could mean it makes it harder to land Kadri. Why? Because McDavid is better, is expected to continue being better (maybe widen the gap), and maybe for longer. He's also signed for longer so you're guaranteed to keep him longer than McKinnon.

Finally - yes you simply pay the top players in the league. I firmly believe that. But I do mean the actual top players. As in - the top 10 or so, maybe slightly more. I don't value Panarin nearly that highly for a few reasons:

1. He's a winger
2. He's slightly older than some of the other young stars
3. He's asked to move in the past (made it clear he was leaving Columbus) - could be a bit worrysome/a sign of things to come if he doesn't like the new city
4. His peak so far is 87 points - i mean it's good, but there are many who have produced better in recent seasons.

If instead of Panarin being UFA it had been McKinnon, or McDavid, or Matthews - to me those 3 guys would easily have been offered 13-15M+ per season by a team. Panarin isn't quite at their level.

Mcd mack and barkov of course. Anyone without o’reilly in the top ten is really thinking out of the box tho. How does no one on the stanley cup roster make the top ten? People think it was complete chemistry?

Mcdavid
Barkov
Mack
Oreilly
Aho
Zibanejad
I really think Defense should be separate
Kakko
Klingberg
Goalies anyone?

Not sure if you're being serious but....

If at a GM meeting that happens next week the St Louis Blues, the NY Rangers, The Tampa Bay Lightning and the Toronto Maple Leafs gms all get up together on stage and announce "the 4 of us have decided to donate a player each for free to another team. The players up for grabs are Zibanejad, Oreilly, Kucherov and Matthews. Which of you want which player?"

I'd be absolutely shocked if a single GM picks either of Zibanjed or Oreilly above Kucherov or Matthews. Hence - they are not as valuable an asset.
 

bobholly39

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McDavid
Barkov
Kucherov
Hedman
Rantanen
Eichel
Matthews
Jones
Panarin
Mackinnon/Vasilevsky


HM: Marner, Gaudreau, Barzal, Pastrnak, Scheifele, Aho


I don’t care if Panarin is overpaid, his production is elite no matter where he plays and is dominant in offensive zone possession, he isn’t one dimensional and he’s still pretty young.



Need to see more out of one year players like Dahlin, Heiskanen, Petterson (who slowed down a bit as year went on) but could absolutely be here. I expect Kakko and Hughes to also both be borderline this as well, probably Kakko sooner.



It’s weird how the cup champs are just a well balanced team and don’t have a guy on here but petriangelo is a beast. Him and parayko are two of the most underrated dmen in the game. I’m really interested to see how well binnington does next year.

I think the cup champs don't only not have a top 10 asset - they probably don't have a top 30 asset. Which is a testament to them - fantastic season/performance, very well rounded roster. I agree Pietrangelo is great and probably their best/most valuable player but not sure he cracks a top 30 most valuable assets list.

As for your list - Eichel over Dahlin?? I think that's surprising, especially since you're a Sabres fan. You think if Buffalo GM called out every team in the league tomorrow morning and said "yeah Eichel/Dahlin have this hatred for each other so we decided to trade one. We're not gonna make a big ask for them - give us your next 2 1st round picks for the player of your choice, and he's yours". You think more teams pick Eichel over Dahlin? I would think the opposite.

Also surprised you have McKinnon at #10, assuming your ranking is in order. Why so low? Without again going through every list posted, i think him and McDavid are the only 2 who have made every single list so far, at #10 you probably have him lowest.
 

Cats2TheCup

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I think this early on in his career hype plays a huge role in value.

For all the Crosby vs Ovechkin debate over the years - i expect not even the most avid Crosby hater would suggest that Ovechkin had a higher value as a trade asset than Crosby even at his peak. Crosby was much more hyped and hype is a big component of value.

I do think Dahlin will be pretty damn good and very possibly fully live up to the hype so im not saying he's all hype - but it plays a big part in value.
All I see here is Dahlin will live up to the hype but Ovie won't. Might want to reverse your take so it makes sense.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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“CF% over 57 percent”, CLWM said it yeah.

I was going off the sabres twitter account with the title “historic rookie season” by the charging buffalo posted on April 6th.

I’m not a huge corsi guy but when we’re talking about an 18 year old defensemen ....

Yeah so, you should never use all situations Corsi because it is so heavily skewed by the minute distribution of a player.

Dahlin played 233:28 on the PP and 13:04 on the PK. He played 35:18 with an empty net and 2:10 against an empty net. No matter how bad you suck, you’re going to out-shoot the opponents when you have more skaters than the other team. Dahlin got the benefit playing many minutes with more skaters, but he played almost zero minutes with fewer skaters; that seriously skewed his Corsi.

Dahlin’s 5-on-5 Corsi For% was 51.91%, and his 3.03%. Those are still ridiculous numbers for an 18 year old playing top pairing minutes on the Buffalo Sabres. The only full-time Sabre with a better Corsi was Jeff Skinner.

I’m not blaming you for posting it - I have no clue why the Buffalo Sabres Twitter would post it.
 
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Cats2TheCup

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“CF% over 57 percent”, CLWM said it yeah.

I was going off the sabres twitter account with the title “historic rookie season” by the charging buffalo posted on April 6th.

I’m not a huge corsi guy but when we’re talking about an 18 year old defensemen ....
I'm sure you paid very close attention to Ekblads historic rookie season production. How do you view his impact on the game today in comparison to Dahlin? Will Dahlin hit Bobby Orr points or Aaron Ekblad points?
 

thedustman

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Not sure if you're being serious but....

If at a GM meeting that happens next week the St Louis Blues, the NY Rangers, The Tampa Bay Lightning and the Toronto Maple Leafs gms all get up together on stage and announce "the 4 of us have decided to donate a player each for free to another team. The players up for grabs are Zibanejad, Oreilly, Kucherov and Matthews. Which of you want which player?"

I'd be absolutely shocked if a single GM picks either of Zibanjed or Oreilly above Kucherov or Matthews. Hence - they are not as valuable an asset.
The “valuable assets” you prefer are not winners. Defense is a part of the game.
 

Aladyyn

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I'm sure you paid very close attention to Ekblads historic rookie season production. How do you view his impact on the game today in comparison to Dahlin? Will Dahlin hit Bobby Orr points or Aaron Ekblad points?
Ekblad played that whole season with Brian Campbell. Dahlin's most common partners were Bogosian and Ristolainen. Bit of a difference...
 

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