RANK: CAN vs RUS vs USA vs SWE

[Snowsii]

on paper? pretty clear to me.

3rd and 4th lines and defence are the worst of the 5 teams, I dont think theres much debating that.

Hintz-Barkov-Rantanen
Laine-Aho-Teravainen
Kapanen-Granlund-Lehkonen
Puljujarvi-Kotkaniemi-Armia
(Haula, Luostarienen)

Lindell-Heiskanen
Maatta-Jokiharju
Ristolainen-Hakanpaa
(Valimaki)

Saros-Korpisalo-Kahkonen


did you even look at my OP?

Oh boy... really akward lines...

Where's Lindell? And Finland has plenty of talent in Europe

Canada, USA and Sweden i rank above Finland (Sweden and Finland might be close, giving them the edge coz defense)

 

[jonlin]

clearly last on paper, imo

Check again. Finland has far superior C-depth than Russia and defense on par.

 

[jonlin]

on paper? pretty clear to me.

3rd and 4th lines and defence are the worst of the 5 teams, I dont think theres much debating that.

Hintz-Barkov-Rantanen
Laine-Aho-Teravainen
Kapanen-Granlund-Lehkonen
Puljujarvi-Kotkaniemi-Armia
(Haula, Luostarienen)

Lindell-Heiskanen
Maatta-Jokiharju
Ristolainen-Hakanpaa
(Valimaki)

Saros-Korpisalo-Kahkonen


did you even look at my OP?

You have centers as wingers and leave out Lundell, Maccelli etc. Armia and Pulju wont even make the team. Get your facts straight before posting. This would be more like Finlands forwards:

Laine - Barkov - Rantanen
Granlund - Aho - Teräväinen
Lehkonen - Hintz - Kakko
Maccelli - Lundell - Luostarinen

 

[jonlin]

CAN
USA


SWE

RUS
FIN

Since when is Finland below Russia? Finland has far superior C-depth in Barkov, Aho, Granlund, Hintz, Lundell. Russia has Malkin... Also, Russias defense is no better than Finlands. We also won that Russian A-team with our C-squad last we met them.

 

[amnesiac]

Since when is Finland below Russia? Finland has far superior C-depth in Barkov, Aho, Granlund, Hintz, Lundell. Russia has Malkin... Also, Russias defense is no better than Finlands. We also won that Russian A-team with our C-squad last we met them.

You have centers as wingers and leave out Lundell, Maccelli etc. Armia and Pulju wont even make the team. Get your facts straight before posting. This would be more like Finlands forwards:

Laine - Barkov - Rantanen
Granlund - Aho - Teräväinen
Lehkonen - Hintz - Kakko
Maccelli - Lundell - Luostarinen

because adding Lundell, Maccelli and Kakko makes them suddenly superior to Russia now? That a joke?

Funny your big argument is all about centre depth but conveniently dont mention winger depth, and well, GOALTENDING maybe?

Lets take a look:

Kucherov
Panarin
Kaprizov
Ovie
Svechnikov
Tarasenko
Nichushkin
Kuzmenko

vs

Rantanen
Laine
Teravainen

Did you even think before you posted?

and yes Ill take Russia's D over Finaland any day of the week. Sergachev, Provorov, Orlov better than any Finn except Heiskanen.... Bottom 3 of Gavrikov, Romanov, Zub much better than the likes of Jokiharju, Risto, and Hankapaa. Seriously, if you think Finland's D is "on par" with Russia youre just being biaed or dont know a thing about hockey.

and oh ya.... Vasi, Shesterkin, Sorkokin all superior to Saros. Gimme a break.


THanks have a nice day.

 

[jonlin]

Gavrikov, Romanov, Zub much better than the likes of Risto and Hankapaa.

because adding Lundell, Maccelli and Kakko makes them suddenly superior to Russia now? That a joke?

Funny your big argument is all about centre depth but conveniently dont mention winger depth, and well, GOALTENDING maybe?

Lets take a look:

Kucherov
Panarin
Kaprizov
Ovie
Svechnikov
Tarasenko
Nichushkin
Kuzmenko

vs

Rantanen
Laine
Teravainen

Did you even think before you posted?

and yes Ill take Russia's D over Finaland any day of the week. Sergachev, Provorov, Orlov better than any Finn except Heiskanen. Gavrikov, Romanov, Zub much better than the likes of Risto and Hankapaa.

and oh ya.... Vasi, Shesterkin, Sorkokin all superior to Saros.

THanks have a nice day.

Finlands C-team just won against all thoose players at WC 2yrs back. C-depth is crucial and Finland has a far superior team witrh 200ft players. Thoose Russian players play offense only except Nichuskin.

C-depth Barkov, Aho, Hintz, Granlund, Lundell are all 200ft players. Russia has Malkin... Suddenly C-depth doesnt matter now? Usually teams with better C-dept and 2-way play win. We have it.


Heiskanen is a far better D, than any Russian. Lindell, Hakanpää, Määttä are all on par with that Russian D. Ristolainen wouldnt even be on the team.

Vasi has been shit this season and Shesty not much better.

As a team, Finland play better than Russia 90% of the time. In the last 2 decades we have won Russia much more than they and our team is infact a lot better now. 2-way play very much counts. Russia cant run-n-gun against us.

Here is your superior Russia with 0 goals against our C-team:


Russia

	j#	Name	Pos
	88	VASILEVSKI Andrei	GK
	40	GEORGIEV Alexander	GK

Line 1

	98	SERGACHYOV Mikhail	D
	89	NESTEROV Nikita	D
	25	GRIGORENKO Mikhail	F
	11	MALKIN Yevgeni	F
	63	DADONOV Yevgeni	F

Line 2

	9	ORLOV Dmitri	D
	22	ZAITSEV Nikita	D
	8	OVECHKIN Alexander	F
	92	KUZNETSOV Yevgeni	F
	77	KAPRIZOV Kirill	F

Line 3

	3	KHAFIZULLIN Dinar	D
	4	GAVRIKOV Vladislav	D
	97	GUSEV Nikita	F
	15	ANISIMOV Artyom	F
	86	KUCHEROV Nikita	F

Line 4

	61	ZADOROV Nikita	D
	94	BARABANOV Alexander	F
	71	KOVALCHUK Ilya	F
	13	ANDRONOV Sergei	F
	7	TELEGIN Ivan	F

Head coach

VOROBYOV Ilya

He. Co.

Finland

	j#	Name	Pos
	30	LANKINEN Kevin	GK
	45	OLKINUORA Jussi	GK

Line 1

	55	OHTAMAA Atte	D
	4	LEHTONEN Mikko	D
	20	OJAMAKI Niko	F
	21	TYRVAINEN Juhani	F
	25	RAJALA Toni	F

Line 2

	28	JOKIHARJU Henri	D
	40	LINDBOHM Petteri	D
	24	KAKKO Kaapo	F
	65	MANNINEN Sakari	F
	82	PESONEN Harri	F

Line 3

	7	KASKI Oliwer	D
	70	MIKKOLA Niko	D
	71	KUUSELA Kristian	F
	76	SALLINEN Jere	F
	19	SAVINAINEN Veli-Matti	F

Line 4

	58	HAKANPAA Jani	D
	50	KOIVISTO Miika	D
	12	ANTTILA Marko	F
	91	LAMMIKKO Juho	F
	41	KIVIRANTA Joel	F

Head coach

JALONEN Jukka

He. Co.

 

[amnesiac]

Finlands C-team just won against all thoose players at WC 2yrs back. C-depth is crucial and Finland has a far superior team witrh 200ft players. Thoose Russian players play offense only except Nichuskin.

C-depth Barkov, Aho, Hintz, Granlund, Lundell are all 200ft players. Russia has Malkin... Suddenly C-depth doesnt matter now? Usually teams with better C-dept and 2-way play win. We have it.


Heiskanen is a far better D, than any Russian. Lindell, Hakanpää, Määttä are all on par with that Russian D. Ristolainen wouldnt even be on the team.

Vasi has been shit this season and Shesty not much better.

As a team, Finland play better than Russia 90% of the time. In the last 2 decades we have won Russia much more than they and our team is infact a lot better now. 2-way play very much counts. Russia cant run-n-gun against us.

Kuznetsov? hello. Conveniently forgot him of course. Barbashev can be their 3rd C. And once again, you dont mention how much Russia blow FIN out of the water in winger depth.

Finland has the worst by far on the 5 teams, its quite bad even, and Russia has the best arguably. Even putting Finland's Cs at wing doesnt make up for it, as their 3rd and 4th lines are very underwhelming. Ill give them the better 2 way players overall, but Russia's skill and speed are just too much. Espeically against that porous D, Russia would kill them.

And no, sorry to break it to you Hakanpää, Määttä are not on par with the Russian D. They would be their 7th and 8th. Stop it.

Nice try with the goaltending, you just look fooling trying to argue this one.

 

[Favin]

Since when is Finland below Russia? Finland has far superior C-depth in Barkov, Aho, Granlund, Hintz, Lundell. Russia has Malkin... Also, Russias defense is no better than Finlands. We also won that Russian A-team with our C-squad last we met them.

Russian wins out on goaltending

 

[jonlin]

Russian wins out on goaltending

Not without team-defense. Russia is very thin on defensive forwards, so I`d expect Vasi&Shesty to have to stand on their heads. Its not like Kaprizov, Tarasenko or Ovechkin backchecks a lot.. Russia is usually not a sum of their parts. Their top-players are too selfish when playing for Team Russia. Its been seen in every tournament. Their play si much worse than they should be.

 

[RapidKnight]

Not without team-defense. Russia is very thin on defensive forwards, so I`d expect Vasi&Shesty to have to stand on their heads. Its not like Kaprizov, Tarasenko or Ovechkin backchecks a lot.. Russia is usually not a sum of their parts. Their top-players are too selfish when playing for Team Russia. Its been seen in every tournament. Their play si much worse than they should be.

Team defense? Individual NHL teams have better defenses than Finland. The forwards aren’t going to remake that up. And no Hakanpaa and Määttä are not on par with Orlov, Sergachev, and Provorov lol.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

Russia has surpassed Canada. Let's not mention goaltending, Russia has much better forward depth and their defense is extremely underrated.

I've kind of stopped caring who's better but I'm going to have to disagree at least on paper. I'm also going to suggest it'll be a long time until we find out anyways.

 

[FrankSidebottom]

CAN
USA

SWE
RUS

FIN

 

[Regal]

Yeah they are pretty loaded now, they've had the arguably the strongest combo of wingers, defenseman, and goaltenders for a few years now IMO, but have been too weak down the middle. But with the emergence of Hughes and Thompson, they are truly deep at center for the first time I can remember.

Matthews, Eichel, Hughes, and Thompson could all end the season as top 10-15 centers. And they have solid depth options in Larkin, Miller, Nelson, with young guys like Zegras and Beniers waiting in the wings (where they would both be on my roster). I'd still give Canada the edge down the middle but it's no longer an embarrassing comparison.

Then you have a really well rounded wing group in Gaudreau, Robertson, Tkachuk, Tkachuk, Kane, Connor, Guentzel, Terry, Pavelski, Caufield etc.

But their D core is the strength of this team. Fox, Slavin, and McAvoy is the strongest defending trio of any nation.

Slavin - Fox
Q Hughes - McAvoy
Werenski - Pesce
(Sanderson - L Hughes by next year)

That's just an unusually well rounded group of defenders.

Then Oettinger / Hellebuyck / Demko in net.

I think it's probably a coinflip between USA and Canada in terms of their skating groups, but the Americans have a clear edge in net.

I think the only thing with USA lacks is shutdown forwards/great PKers, which might not really matter for a best on best but is always good to have. Though Canada isn’t as strong there as in years past either with ROR slowing down and Couturier hurt.

 

[Miro4Norris]

You can't deny facts, Canada is obviously the right choice in this poll to be 2nd best after Finland

WORLD RANKING
The IIHF World Ranking is a tool to reflect the long-term quality of the countries' national team programme.

2022 MEN'S WORLD RANKING

����������

RANK	TEAM	PTS	MOV
1	FIN	4130	0
2	CAN	3990	0
3	RUS	3935	0
4	USA	3775	0
5	SWE	3675	0
6	CZE	3650	+1
7	SUI	3590	-1
8	SVK	3590	0
9	GER	3555	0
10	DEN	3335	0

 

[Signupnow]

Can someone remind me when the last time USA actually won on senior level? My grandparents have died so I got Noone who has witnessed it Alive.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Can someone remind me when the last time USA actually won on senior level? My grandparents have died so I got Noone who has witnessed it Alive.

1996

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Meh poll without Finland.

 

[amnesiac]

Meh poll without Finland.

yeah no problem, 5 teams gives for 120 poll options

 

[MNRube]

All 4 are close and it would largely come down to goaltending and system play. But I dont know how you can vote for anyone else until someone beats Canada in a best on best setting.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Meh poll without Finland.

On paper, Finland doesn't compare.

In an actual single elimination tournament, any of the big 5 could come out on top. Finland always seems to play above their heads.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

All 4 are close and it would largely come down to goaltending and system play. But I dont know how you can vote for anyone else until someone beats Canada in a best on best setting.

It's been nearly a decade since the last true best on best. These teams are completely different from what they were back then. Connor McDavid was still in junior.

This doesn't mean that Canada shouldn't be the favorite, but their historical success shouldn't have much relevance.

 

[95snipes]

If it's not USA today (I think it is), it will be very soon. Bergeron, Marchand, Crosby, Stamkos, and Tavares are all getting up there in age. Canada hasn't produced any premiere forward talent since the 2015 draft. Sure Bedard is coming up, but USA has Cole Eiserman who is (IMO) the front runner for '24 and James Hagens who is (IMO) the front runner for '25.

I think USA has much better depth than Canada. They have enough depth to field a very solid 'B' team. How times have changed. They only advantage I see for Canada is McDavid, which is a big advantage.

 

[Czechboy]

Just echoing that Finland is missing from this.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Considering that Finland is the #1 ranked team by the IIHF, I'll go:

Finland
Canada
Russia
USA
Sweden

Maybe Finland wasn't included because the OP didn't want to see Canada beaten by a country with about the same population as the GTA.

 

[95snipes]

USA has closed the gap on Canada enough that it would come down to chemistry instead of talent. Of course, Canada’s B team is still the best B team by far.

Yeah, I don't know about that.

Is Canada B really that much (if any) better than USA B? I'd say both the A and B teams are pretty close.

Canada B
Skinner-Barzal-Thomas
RNH-Scheifele-Cozens
Benn-Suzuki-Batherson
Couture-PLD-Konecny

Morrisey-Hamilton
Reilly-Doughty
Parayko-Dobson

Fleury
Kuemper


USA B
JT Miller-Larkin-Pavelski
DeBrincat-Zegras-Tuch
Kreider-Benier-Terry
Keller-Hayes-Wheeler

Sanderson-Carlson
Fowler-Faulk
McDonagh-Pesce

Demko
Gibson


-----------

Canada A
Stamkos-McDavid-MacKinnon
Machard-Crosby-Bergeron
Huberdeau-Point-Marner
Horvat-Tavares-Stone

Toews-Makar
Theodore-Pietrangelo
Chabot-Ekblad

Hart
Jarry


USA A
M Tkachuk-Matthews-Kane
Robertson-Thompson-Gaudreau
Connor-Hughes-Caufield
Guentzel-Eichel-B. Tkachuk

Slavin-Fox
Hughes-McAvoy
Werenski-Jones

Oettinger
Hellebuyck