RANK: CAN vs RUS vs USA vs SWE

[EdJovanovski]

1. USA
2. RUS
3. CAN
4. SWE

 

[Ivo]

One simply does not split up Marchand and Bergeron. (add Boromir picture)

 

[Gold Standard]

It goes 1. Canada 2. USA 3. Sweden 4. Finland. and sometimes Finland and Sweden invert their positions.

 

[heksagon]

clearly last on paper, imo

Clearly? You are wrong.

Man, I really wish there was best on best hockey, so the Finnish golden generation would get to chance to show what they are capable of. Still underrated.

 

[Erikfromfin]

As a Finn I must protest this thread

 

[amnesiac]

Clearly? You are wrong.

on paper? pretty clear to me.

3rd and 4th lines and defence are the worst of the 5 teams, I dont think theres much debating that.

Hintz-Barkov-Rantanen
Laine-Aho-Teravainen
Granlund-Lundell-Lehkonen
Puljujarvi-Kotkaniemi-Kapanen
(Haula, Armia, Luostarienen)

Lindell-Heiskanen
Maatta-Jokiharju
Ristolainen-Hakanpaa
(Valimaki)

Saros-Korpisalo-Kahkonen

Somebody di some line combos/d pairs. Is the US really that close?

did you even look at my OP?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Somebody di some line combos/d pairs. Is the US really that close?

Yeah they are pretty loaded now, they've had the arguably the strongest combo of wingers, defenseman, and goaltenders for a few years now IMO, but have been too weak down the middle. But with the emergence of Hughes and Thompson, they are truly deep at center for the first time I can remember.

Matthews, Eichel, Hughes, and Thompson could all end the season as top 10-15 centers. And they have solid depth options in Larkin, Miller, Nelson, with young guys like Zegras and Beniers waiting in the wings (where they would both be on my roster). I'd still give Canada the edge down the middle but it's no longer an embarrassing comparison.

Then you have a really well rounded wing group in Gaudreau, Robertson, Tkachuk, Tkachuk, Kane, Connor, Guentzel, Terry, Pavelski, Caufield etc.

But their D core is the strength of this team. Fox, Slavin, and McAvoy is the strongest defending trio of any nation.

Slavin - Fox
Q Hughes - McAvoy
Werenski - Pesce
(Sanderson - L Hughes by next year)

That's just an unusually well rounded group of defenders.

Then Oettinger / Hellebuyck / Demko in net.

I think it's probably a coinflip between USA and Canada in terms of their skating groups, but the Americans have a clear edge in net.

 

[dalewood12]

I have Canada as #1 but yikes that goaltending.

 

[RapidKnight]

Canada forwards may be better on paper but are lacking goal scorers so the U.S. has a much more balanced attack. They have also been out scored at 5v5 the last three seasons and trending in the wrong direction, relevant because the average share of PPTOI is smaller than what superstars typically receive. Not convinced the U.S. has the better forward group yet but the other areas more than enough make up the difference in my opinion.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Canada forwards may be better on paper but are lacking goal scorers so the U.S. has a much more balanced attack. They have also been out scored at 5v5 the last three seasons and trending in the wrong direction, relevant because the average share of PPTOI is smaller than what superstars typically receive. Not convinced the U.S. has the better forward group yet but the other areas more than enough make up the difference in my opinion.

Yeah I would give Canada's forward group the slight edge over USA, but I think the Americans have the slightly better group of defenders.

 

[Dominance]

Much as I hate to admit it, the US has clearly considerably narrowed the gap to us. It’s less them taking huge steps forward than pretty much every highly touted Canadian disappointing since 2015. Just among top half of the first round guys, it’s absolute madness.

Jost
McLeod
Bean
Patrick
Glass
Rasmussen
Tippett
Vilardi
Foote
Hayton
Bouchard
Dellandrea
Smith
Newhook
Krebs
Lafreniere
Byfield

Some of these guys still have a lot of potential but they’re clearly far behind what was hoped. The sheer volume of disappointments is maddening, as is only Makar becoming a true star among the post-2015 picks.

Wright did not stay on the trajectory of his exceptional status and Savoie also does not seem to carry the franchise potential he had.
2023 draft is ridiculously loaded for Canada, but so was 2020 and it has yet to turn out guys who are clearly going to be true stars. Looking backwards, Canada should be producing at least 2-3 true stars each draft on average. It doesn’t make any sense that nobody has proven themselves special.

 

[Ivo]

As the Finns have proven many times over, a team is more than just the sum of its parts. Maybe they look less impressive on paper, but I am convinced they can keep up with the other four just fine on the ice.

 

[wintersej]

USA has closed the gap on Canada enough that it would come down to chemistry instead of talent. Of course, Canada’s B team is still the best B team by far.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

If McDavid didn't exist I'd say the US. Most balanced on paper and high end is getting better every year. But as is I'd say Canada US Sweden Russia.

 

[Ivo]

I would have Russia clearly last, because their defense is several steps below the other countries. The only Russian Dman to even have a Norris vote in the last five seasons was Provorov (two 5th-place votes in 2020).

Sweden third, because their forwards are not quite on par imo.

Canada and US seems almost like a tossup to me. Canada has McDavid, but their goalies are suspect. Voted them first still, because they have won the last three best-on-bests and have thus earned the benefit of doubt. They are the best until someone can prove they aren’t.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

clearly last on paper, imo

Yeah this is an on paper thing only. I believe a small country like Finland is larger than the sum of its parts. And it's parts are no joke either.

 

[logan5]

on paper? pretty clear to me.

3rd and 4th lines and defence are the worst of the 5 teams, I dont think theres much debating that.

Hintz-Barkov-Rantanen
Laine-Aho-Teravainen
Kapanen-Granlund-Lehkonen
Puljujarvi-Kotkaniemi-Armia
(Haula, Luostarienen)

Lindell-Heiskanen
Maatta-Jokiharju
Ristolainen-Hakanpaa
(Valimaki)

Saros-Korpisalo-Kahkonen


did you even look at my OP?

Lol. I guess I scrolled right past it. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

As of today, the US has 3 players in the top 10 of scoring vs 3 for Canada. I didn't study it closely. but it looks like the US has more players in the top 25. You have great players coming out of California and Arizona now, and I think Arizona has a college hockey program now. With the Kraken in Seattle, Washington State will start producing more players. Won't be long til the US has the most players in the league.

 

[Favin]

CAN
USA


SWE

RUS
FIN

 

[Ben White]

USA and Canada are clearly 1 and 2 interchangeable right now imo, Sweden clearly no 3. Don’t really see an argument for Russia over Sweden right now. Sweden’s D is obviously better but if you look at the top 50 scorers Sweden has 2 in top 10, 4 top 20, 5 top 25, 6 top 40. Russia has 1 in top 5, 2 top 10 and 3 top 50. Big advantage Sweden.

 

[amnesiac]

Yeah this is an on paper thing only. I believe a small country like Finland is larger than the sum of its parts. And it's parts are no joke either.

I dont disagree, but adding a 5th team to this was just too many poll options. People can write in their ranking with FIN included obviously.

 

[Cotton]

Looks about as close as it's ever been.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Russia has surpassed Canada. Let's not mention goaltending, Russia has much better forward depth and their defense is extremely underrated.

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

Russia has surpassed Canada. Let's not mention goaltending, Russia has much better forward depth and their defense is extremely underrated.

ehh no..

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

Canada because best overall talent
Russia close second because they have hands down the best goaltending

USA is kind of like Canada, but not as highly talented

Swedes

 

[Hockeyfrilla]

Only nation that can challenge canada in overall talent at anytime is USA.

Massive player base, elite developement system (USNTDP, USHL-->NCAA) Can produce elite talents at the draft year after year

I also like how teams USA's U18 and U20 teams play the game