Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
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Have you seen his greatest player rankings?
Aye. Of course.. Strange Brew it be: www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnrp6o966pA
Have you seen his greatest player rankings?
Aye. Of course.. Strange Brew it be: www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnrp6o966pA
Indeed. As a Habs fan I have a lot of respect for Bowman but his take individual players just seems to me to be.....bizarre shall we say
Fine. In terms of "Greatest Coaches All Time" statistically Bowman Top O' the World Ma. But he's not my Cup of Tea.... My brain goes into overdrive thinking about Toe Blake, Dick Irvin Sr. & the likes of Art Ross. Scotty was lucky. Only decent mind in a vacant field & who was indulged by Pollock. Look at what he quite literally inherited in Montreal? Ha?... how do you screw that up?... and of course confidence once born, the Red Wing = Childs Play.
How about his HHoF Legends bio, then?
Gotta assume that has a lot to do with it. Gotta think, from a history of high-producing rovers and centres, it had to be a pretty big thing to have a defenseman capable of not only carrying and maintaining the puck like that, but effectively dictating the pace and flow of play that well.
Because between Bourque, Harvey and Lidstrom there isn't a lot of space, but ones that have seen Bourque and Lidstrom's entire career usually pick Bourque because they can see the differences. Same with Harvey. It isn't that he's miles ahead of Lidstrom, it is just that someone as to have done things better than the other one. Usually Harvey is picked for this. Lidstrom, even taking his subtly into account didn't stand out like the first two.
Bowman was from Montreal, played hockey in the minors, and then was coaching by the late 1950s.
I believe he would have seen plenty of Harvey in his prime, and finally as an NHL coach.
A bit late to the party and I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying this but while I think he is a top 5 dman I think Bourque's cup fairy tale is way too highly regarded when evaluating his career.
Dave Lewis failed with the wings so it wasnt childs play at all..
A bit late to the party and I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying this but while I think he is a top 5 dman I think Bourque's cup fairy tale is way too highly regarded when evaluating his career.
If anything people don't even give Bourque enough credit for his one cup in Colorado....
I haven't even seen anybody mention Bourque's cup as a positive for him. Meanwhile Lidstrom gets plenty of praise for his playoff performance (and rightfully so).
To me Bourque's only cup and his contributing performance towards that cup is more important than say.... Scott Niedermeyer's first two cups, even though Niedermeyer gets the "career winner" label and people project his peak/prime (mid 00's) to his problematic early years.
In fact Bourque in 01 might have been more important to the Avs cup effort than Lidstrom in either 97 or 98 (but obviously not 02, and almost definitely not 08).
As far as I can tell nobody is using his "cup fairy tale" to pump Bourque up. Not a flame, just pointing it out as someone who's been following this thread closely.
If anything people don't even give Bourque enough credit for his one cup in Colorado....
I haven't even seen anybody mention Bourque's cup as a positive for him. Meanwhile Lidstrom gets plenty of praise for his playoff performance (and rightfully so).
To me Bourque's only cup and his contributing performance towards that cup is more important than say.... Scott Niedermeyer's first two cups, even though Niedermeyer gets the "career winner" label and people project his peak/prime (mid 00's) to his problematic early years.
In fact Bourque in 01 might have been more important to the Avs cup effort than Lidstrom in either 97 or 98 (but obviously not 02, and almost definitely not 08).
Dude, Bourque was generally considered one of the greatest D-men of all time about a dozen years before he ever won the Cup.Maybe not in this thread but in general. I have always felt that his cup victory is over-glorified and seems to be such a big part of the evaluation of his career making it very tough for me to put him that much ahead of Lidström to be honest.
Maybe not in this thread but in general. I have always felt that his cup victory is over-glorified and seems to be such a big part of the evaluation of his career making it very tough for me to put him that much ahead of Lidström to be honest.
And how does Scotty rank him all-time? Right in there with the best who have ever played the game.
"You gotta go Bobby Orr first. He changed the game," Bowman said. "He was an offensive machine. No one will ever play like Bobby Orr again. His sheer speed -- there's never been a skater like that. He only played 10 years and we're still talking about him. And then, I think Doug Harvey who, in his era of the '50s and early '60s,' he really controlled the game. Then there's a few guys I'd rank Nick with. Denis Potvin, Ray Bourque. A guy who is really underrated, played kind of mistake free -- he was like Nick -- was Serge Savard.
As long as we're putting all this stock in what Bowman says...
Interview May 31 2012
http://www.si.com/nhl/home-ice/2012/05/31/was-nick-lidstrom-mvp-of-his-era
Pretty clear what Bowman thinks eh.
Credit to the original poster Quoipourquoi
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=50581077&postcount=143
That's still pretty reasonable, ranks two guys as the clearly dominant (in terms of his assessment of their ability, no counting of awards, Cups, etc.).
Orr
Harvey
Lidstrom/Bourque/Potvin/Savard(?)
That's a respectable grouping.
TSN's Ray Ferraro played against Lidstrom in 12 of his 18 NHL seasons and added, "When I think of Lidstrom, I think of a great player that had the puck on his stick less than any other great player I had a chance to play against. His efficiency at moving the puck at the right time to the right player in the right place on the ice was unmatched. When I think of the greatness of Lidstrom, I think of that; that the game wasn't easy for him, but he made it appear easy because his decision-making was far superior to most players that I ever played against....The one thing I always found playing against Lidstrom is that when you thought you had him in a corner, had him in a bad spot, it was one simple pass, one quick movement and out of the zone the Red Wings go. As much as the Red Wings score, the wheel of their offense has always been Nick Lidstrom."
Dude, Bourque was generally considered one of the greatest D-men of all time about a dozen years before he ever won the Cup.
That's an over-statement. He got two years, won 48 games in each (pre-shootout), but had two playoffs where he ran into Kiprusoff, who was arguably the best goaltender in the world at the time, and Giguere, who was playing like it. Bowman and Babcock didn't start much hotter than that, if you'll recall. Hell, they all dropped their first series with the team after a 46/48/58-win season to an 18/15/29-point underdog.
That's still pretty reasonable, ranks two guys as the clearly dominant (in terms of his assessment of their ability, no counting of awards, Cups, etc.).
Orr
Harvey
Lidstrom/Bourque/Potvin/Savard(?)
That's a respectable grouping.
And you all realise that I could have presented this interview a couple of days ago but waited to see just how much of your feet you could get in your mouthes before actually having to eat 'em.
:wink:
You know you're incredibly into this when you start plotting when to post things. Jeez.
The only problem is if you want to use this quote Bowman also says Lidstrom and Bourque are on the same level. You agree with that, too?
Bowman is probably doing a peer to peer comparison here like you do. Notice how he mentions "in his era of the 50's and early 60's". In the other quote we have from Bowman in this comparison he catches himself before he comments, "It's hard to compare them in a way because they played in vastly different eras." Then goes on to speak about all the similarities between the two and won't pick one over the other.
Seriously, how can some posters here not admit that's it's unfair to use peer to peer to compare a player from today's fully integrated league, after hockey has spread to far more regions and people, with a player from an all-Canadian league? You wouldn't do that in any other circumstance but it's like it's too late to change your ways now without losing face.