Post-Game Talk: Rangers at Blackhawks - December 9

[aufheben]

What happens when you win 3 cups in 5 years as opposed to losing every big game you've ever been in.

Or just every game in general.

 

[chosen]

1) Raanta
2) Holden
3) Offside Challenge Rule

Usually this board screams about how this rule shouldn't even exist.

 

[trilobyte]

Missed the game live, but watched it this morning. To me, one of the most heartening things is seeing the effort from the team, fighting for pucks. It's easy to find warts, every single team has them, but they have really risen to the occasion.
The 4th line's performance makes me swoon. Their hustle and tenacity adds a new wrinkle to a team's defending against the Rangers.
I love the mixture of physicality and skill (as if they ever ever need to be seen as mutually exclusive) Hrivik has, I hope to god he stays up. Fast has been more noticeable offensively, not just last night, he has been more focussed on getting shots and plays for a string of games now, at least through my eyes. Raanta -- what can you say except he was phenomenal. I loved seeing Kane get stuffed on the scoreboard (and into the boards too).

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

I hate the challenge. I do. But hats off to AV and co. To get that challenge up and right. That was crucial.

 

[chosen]

That was basically the exact opposite of the game I expected.

http://imgur.com/a/zp9MP

I am trying to get up to speed on reading your charts.

Is it accurate to say that Hrivik was the best and Grabner the worst per the chart?

Also, when you look at that chart, who do you conclude had a better game, Fast or Lindberg?

 

[Irishguy42]

I am trying to get up to speed on reading your charts.

Is it accurate to say that Hrivik was the best and Grabner the worst per the chart?

Also, when you look at that chart, who do you conclude had a better game, Fast or Lindberg?

The whole Grabner-Hayes-Miller line was on for that extremely long DZ time during the second period, IIRC. So that will be skewed a bit if that's the case.

Also, I would say that neither Lindberg nor Fast were really that much better than each other. They were both good.

 

[silverfish]

I am trying to get up to speed on reading your charts.

Is it accurate to say that Hrivik was the best and Grabner the worst per the chart?

Also, when you look at that chart, who do you conclude had a better game, Fast or Lindberg?

The only thing that the charts say is that Hrivik had the best relSA% on the team last night. Deciding who was better between Fast or Lindberg (or any other combination of player vs player) would require quite a bit more analysis than these charts provide

 

[Boruto]

The Hawks definitely had a plan on the Hayes Grabner and Miller trio. Less time and space and better in the neutral zone than Winnipeg. They had numbers back and the defense were on top of it.

 

[Balthazar]

Holden is not that reliable, game-winner notwithstanding. If you ISO him and dont rely on analysis from Homer Joe, you'll get why Holden gets attacked.

Seems like the majority of Holden's shifts are an adventure, partly because of that turnstile Staal.

Still, not bad for a 4th rounder. But you can see why he infuriated Avs fans.

AVS fan here. Actually Holden infuriated us because he was overplayed. When he's playing on his natural side on the 2nd or 3rd pairing he's a decent dman with a surprising offensive upside, but you already know that

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I know they won and get the two points but I am very concerned. I watched the game and there is no way that anyone can tell me that Kane did not intend to clip JT Miller. After he hit Miller and Miller went down not one Ranger goes after Kane. You have a chance to get at Kane and you don't. This team continues to send the wrong message to the rest of the league ( do whatever you want to our teammates and we will do nothing) Kane is a very skilled player one of the top 3 or 4, but he is very chippy with his stick, borderline dirty. I am amazed game in and game out how we do not retaliate at all. We will continue to look like a Mash unit on a nightly basis until we start taking an eye for an eye mentality.

So you'd rather a Ranger rough up Kane and negate the powerplay? Against one of the worst PK teams in the league? Makes total sense. Seriously, the false narrative that exists around "sending messages" in today's NHL cracks me up. Roughing up other teams stars does not deter opponents from taking liberties on our players, if anything it encourages it. Much better to not react emotionally, take the PP and beat them on the scoreboard IMO.

The only thing I agree with is that it was no accident what Kane did. He was pissed about the boarding and reacted poorly.

 

[NYR425]

What you guys are all missing is it has become a pattern now. Teams take liberties against the Rangers because there is no repercussions. If it happened once or twice no big deal, but it is happening game in and game out now. We have a long list of players injured and it keeps on mounting. They need to start holding teams accountable for their actions. I have many friends with in the NHL and they all believe that teams don't respect or fear the Rangers for that reason. Sometimes you need to lose a battle to win a war. By this I mean, In a regular season non conference game it is more important to take the penalty and stand up for your teammate then worry about negating a power play when your teammate was sticked like that. As far as the reply above the people I know that are very involved in the NHL totally disagree with you, but what do they know they only play or coach in the league.

 

[Boruto]

What you guys are all missing is it has become a pattern now. Teams take liberties against the Rangers because there is no repercussions. If it happened once or twice no big deal, but it is happening game in and game out now. We have a long list of players injured and it keeps on mounting. They need to start holding teams accountable for their actions. I have many friends with in the NHL and they all believe that teams don't respect or fear the Rangers for that reason. Sometimes you need to lose a battle to win a war. By this I mean, In a regular season non conference game it is more important to take the penalty and stand up for your teammate then worry about negating a power play when your teammate was sticked like that. As far as the reply above the people I know that are very involved in the NHL totally disagree with you, but what do they know they only play or coach in the league.

Teams respects us plenty because of our speed and skill.

Zibanejad: bad MSG ice, I've fallen down the stairs slip and fall.
Buchnevich: bad training regimen or as AV calls it, "Russian training"
Jooris: injured in camp, first shift of first preseason game.

Nash: Groin injury, 1 week. Likely pulled something. Don't think his groin was being targeted.
Vesey: upper body maintenance type injury. common dings.

We took liberties against the Hawks. Staal and Miller destroyed Kane. We cross checked a few guys, boarded another guy and got away with it.

 

[Boruto]

What you guys are all missing is it has become a pattern now. Teams take liberties against the Rangers because there is no repercussions. If it happened once or twice no big deal, but it is happening game in and game out now. We have a long list of players injured and it keeps on mounting. They need to start holding teams accountable for their actions. I have many friends with in the NHL and they all believe that teams don't respect or fear the Rangers for that reason. Sometimes you need to lose a battle to win a war. By this I mean, In a regular season non conference game it is more important to take the penalty and stand up for your teammate then worry about negating a power play when your teammate was sticked like that. As far as the reply above the people I know that are very involved in the NHL totally disagree with you, but what do they know they only play or coach in the league.

It's also funny how people talk about taking liberties against our players and patterns and repercussions and toughness and accountability but takes offense when players and teams play tough. It's all perfectly normal. I don't remember many teams taking liberties against our guys except for Vesey at the beginning of the season because players were taunting him for going to free agency. No one is getting punched, slew footed, boarded, badly cross checked, getting hit to the head, kneed, headbutted. What do you want our team to do to a routine hockey game? Fight someone and encourage a game with more nastiness and fights and cheap shots? I swear. Why don't we bring back the cold war and Mike Milbury shoeing fans in the stands?

 

[Boruto]

So you'd rather a Ranger rough up Kane and negate the powerplay? Against one of the worst PK teams in the league? Makes total sense. Seriously, the false narrative that exists around "sending messages" in today's NHL cracks me up. Roughing up other teams stars does not deter opponents from taking liberties on our players, if anything it encourages it. Much better to not react emotionally, take the PP and beat them on the scoreboard IMO.

The only thing I agree with is that it was no accident what Kane did. He was pissed about the boarding and reacted poorly.

Kane responded with malice to getting boarded by Miller and Staal. So we have to respond to kane by two hand slashing Keith. Then Hartman and Motte has to respond by spearing Stepan. Then Girardi and Klein has to respond with a double sandwich head shot to Panarin. Then Rozy and Arty has to respond by slew footing McDonagh. Then Lindberg and Fast has to respond by upper cutting Hossa. Then Hjmarsson has to respond by spearing Raanta in the nuts. Then Henrik has to get off the Bench and fight Darling. Then Hayes has to respond by sucker punching TVR while the fight is happening between Henrik and Darling. Then Cristobal Huet has to fly back from somewhere in Europe and fight Clendening in the press box. Then Vigneault and Quenville will square off in a classic NY-CHI connection boxing match in the penalty box. Then NY has to respond to Chicago taking liberties at the start of the night by declaring war on Chicago, then the states gets involved, then the north will fight against itself. The south will get involved to even the score from the civil war. Then her queen's England will move her Navy to retake her majesty's dominion. Then the dolphins, giant jelly fishes, and the native ocean bacteria will rise up and retake the earth to its root.

 

[BBKers]

Kane responded with malice to getting boarded by Miller and Staal. So we have to respond to kane by two hand slashing Keith. Then Hartman and Motte has to respond by spearing Stepan. Then Girardi and Klein has to respond with a double sandwich head shot to Panarin. Then Rozy and Arty has to respond by slew footing McDonagh. Then Lindberg and Fast has to respond by upper cutting Hossa. Then Hjmarsson has to respond by spearing Raanta in the nuts. Then Henrik has to get off the Bench and fight Darling. Then Hayes has to respond by sucker punching TVR while the fight is happening between Henrik and Darling. Then Cristobal Huet has to fly back from somewhere in Europe and fight Clendening in the press box. Then Vigneault and Quenville will square off in a classic NY-CHI connection boxing match in the penalty box. Then NY has to respond to Chicago taking liberties at the start of the night by declaring war on Chicago, then the states gets involved, then the north will fight against itself. The south will get involved to even the score from the civil war. Then her queen's England will move her Navy to retake her majesty's dominion. Then the dolphins, giant jelly fishes, and the native ocean bacteria will rise up and retake the earth to its root.

I like it!
Needs more... Foil though

 

[chosen]

The only thing that the charts say is that Hrivik had the best relSA% on the team last night. Deciding who was better between Fast or Lindberg (or any other combination of player vs player) would require quite a bit more analysis than these charts provide

Do any charts or graphs of analytics provide info as to how a player played in relation to his teammates?

 

[chosen]

What you guys are all missing is it has become a pattern now. Teams take liberties against the Rangers because there is no repercussions. If it happened once or twice no big deal, but it is happening game in and game out now. We have a long list of players injured and it keeps on mounting. They need to start holding teams accountable for their actions. I have many friends with in the NHL and they all believe that teams don't respect or fear the Rangers for that reason. Sometimes you need to lose a battle to win a war. By this I mean, In a regular season non conference game it is more important to take the penalty and stand up for your teammate then worry about negating a power play when your teammate was sticked like that. As far as the reply above the people I know that are very involved in the NHL totally disagree with you, but what do they know they only play or coach in the league.

Which of the injured Rangers are injured because of other teams taking liberties?

Are there any?

If they had been injured with malice by the opposition, I would agree with you, but I think it sounds like you just miss watching fighting.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Kane responded with malice to getting boarded by Miller and Staal. So we have to respond to kane by two hand slashing Keith. Then Hartman and Motte has to respond by spearing Stepan. Then Girardi and Klein has to respond with a double sandwich head shot to Panarin. Then Rozy and Arty has to respond by slew footing McDonagh. Then Lindberg and Fast has to respond by upper cutting Hossa. Then Hjmarsson has to respond by spearing Raanta in the nuts. Then Henrik has to get off the Bench and fight Darling. Then Hayes has to respond by sucker punching TVR while the fight is happening between Henrik and Darling. Then Cristobal Huet has to fly back from somewhere in Europe and fight Clendening in the press box. Then Vigneault and Quenville will square off in a classic NY-CHI connection boxing match in the penalty box. Then NY has to respond to Chicago taking liberties at the start of the night by declaring war on Chicago, then the states gets involved, then the north will fight against itself. The south will get involved to even the score from the civil war. Then her queen's England will move her Navy to retake her majesty's dominion. Then the dolphins, giant jelly fishes, and the native ocean bacteria will rise up and retake the earth to its root.

The aristocrats!

 

[silverfish]

Do any charts or graphs of analytics provide info as to how a player played in relation to his teammates?

In what terms? That bar chart that has positive and negative on it (this one) shows relative shot attempt percentage.

Read this as, when Hrivik was on the ice, the Rangers had ~30% more of the shot attempts versus when Hrivik was off the ice. For example, though these are not the exact #s from yesterday, this means that when Hrivik was on the ice, the Rangers had 70% of the shot attempts, and when Hrivik was off the ice, the Rangers had 40% of the shot attempts. 70% - 40% = 30% relative to team for Hrivik.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Am I the only one who can't stand Brett Cyrgalis? This guy is a total ass hat! All three of his columns are biased, agenda driven garbage, meant to cause strife within the organization. ****ing Loser

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Am I the only one who can't stand Brett Cyrgalis? This guy is a total ass hat! All three of his columns are biased, agenda driven garbage, meant to cause strife within the organization. ****ing Loser

Basically Larry 2.0

Dan Boyle called him a clown in front of a camera during an interview hahaha. Brooks and Cyrgalis have never been popular with the players and staff. People give Tortorella a lot of **** for speaking his mind when talking to Larry Brooks during interviews, but damn... Those two are awful writers.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Basically Larry 2.0

Dan Boyle called him a clown in front of a camera during an interview hahaha. Brooks and Cyrgalis have never been popular with the players and staff. People give Tortorella a lot of **** for speaking his mind when talking to Larry Brooks during interviews, but damn... Those two are awful writers.

...but it's true. All three of his articles today are garbage, disparaging the Rangers. Danny "Boy" Boyle was right.

 

[chosen]

In what terms? That bar chart that has positive and negative on it (this one) shows relative shot attempt percentage.

Read this as, when Hrivik was on the ice, the Rangers had ~30% more of the shot attempts versus when Hrivik was off the ice. For example, though these are not the exact #s from yesterday, this means that when Hrivik was on the ice, the Rangers had 70% of the shot attempts, and when Hrivik was off the ice, the Rangers had 40% of the shot attempts. 70% - 40% = 30% relative to team for Hrivik.

Thanks for the explanation.

Does anything account for which opposing players were on while you're on the ice, because won't your best defensemen usually be on the ice against the best forwards and won't that skew the results of that bar chart?

Also, now I'm confused as to why the the first graph I asked about has any real meaning worthy to display.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

...but it's true. All three of his articles today garbage, disparaging the Rangers. Danny "Boy" Boyle was right.

I admire Dan Boyle as a player. He just happened to have his last and worst years with us. Still a great player and a future HOFer. Then you have him deciding he does not want those 2 clowns in the lockerroom for his final interview and they throw a tantrum. Just accept it and get out.

 

[silverfish]

Thanks for the explanation.

Does anything account for which opposing players were on while you're on the ice, because won't your best defensemen usually be on the ice against the best forwards and won't that skew the results of that bar chart?

Also, now I'm confused as to why the the first graph I asked about has any real meaning worthy to display.

No, but if you're Dan Girardi (for example) and you're constantly getting **** on by the other team's best players, well, then maybe you're not that good?

Which graph is the first graph?