Post-Game Talk: RANGER @ tame

[duhmetreE]

he's basically saying it's you who complain too much (assuming it's aimed at you).

It wasn't aimed at me but it's weird, to complain about complainers, during our great first couple games.

Maybe I'm weird... We're here to talk New York Rangers... say your piece about the NYR, good or bad... when you begin to only critique what others say, it's unproductive and borderline toxic/trolling. It provides nothing to the discussion.

 

[will1066]

I see the asylum residents have had time to digest the win to come up with things to trash it.

 

[mas0764]

I see the asylum residents have had time to digest the win to come up with things to trash it.

Who is trashing this win? I haven't seen a single complaint.

 

[will1066]

Who is trashing this win? I haven't seen a single complaint.

 

[Raspewtin]

this is a game this team usually loses. we were all but run out of the building in that first 10 minutes. I am very impressed at how they settled down and turned the game on its head for the last 50.

Minnesota are likely the nastiest and most physical team in the league but this game is a reminder of how overrated that is. That physical play really diminishes in impact when the game is quick and you're puck chasing. They landed lots of hits and got some crowd roars but a lot of that went out the window the minute the Rangers got that second goal. They never recovered. Minnesota were viciously outshot and outchanced the last 50 minutes, they really didn't have much time or opportunity to "change the momentum" with their physical play. And the Rangers, quietly, gave it back with interest (Reaves beating up Foligno, Trouba absolutely blasting that Wild player by the boards, Reaves' hit on Addison, Lindgren's big check on Hartman, Kreider giving Eriksson-Ek a facefull of lumber making him somehow even uglier). We wound up outhitting the Wild and that's in a game where we had the puck more often than not. I'm just saying that games like this are good to remember when we inevitably whine about not being tough enough when losing.

Goes without saying but the kids were fantastic. Chytil seems to be more of a grinder and puckhound type which I think he needs to be to succeed. Laf's puck work was nothing short of outstanding. Kakko's dips and turns are electric and giving him the time and space that his speed can't. Schneider outside of getting dummied by Kaprizov that one shift in the first was really strong against a pretty rough matchup. Jones had some tough hiccups, especially his play that led to Boldy's second goal, but I want him to learn from those mistakes and not get a sub for Hajek as a result.

It was a really fun game. This team's offensive confidence is through the roof right now and for two teams that have nothing to do with each other on game 2, it was very intense.

 

[DialUp]

Score adjusted? So is that, "the metrics are useless, final score matters"?

Think of it this way, an MLB player whose average is sub .250 on the year, but batting .315 since the start of September is the kind of player you like going into the post season. But his average on the season isn't "useless". It exists, and may still be a better gauge of the kind of player overall he is, just not so relevant at this moment in time.

what matter is how you finish, but you need to get there, AND improve the further along you go.

 

[Lion Hound]

I was thinking last night while watching the game. If you were a Lightning fan, or a Wild fan you left thinking..."Damn, this Rangers team is good!"

It looks like these guys are having a good time out there. They are loose, and playing with confidence. They also have an edge to their game and they are playing for each other. Very entertaining to watch.

Big props for the entire top 6. Panarin, Lafreniere, Kredier, Zibanejad, Trocheck and Kakko. They all had tremendous games on the road last night.

Fox stood out again as well. Looking like a Norris candidate once more. 25 Mins of icetime and he was making some real pretty plays.

Miller and Trouba silently also had very good performances. Both players finished a +4 on the night.

Carpenter get's some flack around here but he did what he needed to do last night. No frills hockey. He was physical. He went 75% in the faceoff circle. His line didn't cough up the puck once the entire night.

Lastly, I had to give Reaves a star last night. Led the team in hits against one of the more physical clubs they will face. He did his job and answered the bell for Miller. That's why he's here. Some here question why he is in the lineup so much. The answer is simple. The team plays bigger when he is in. He is a huge factor in them coming together.

 

[blue425]

Thats hockey baby

Someone is questioning their life choices at that moment. It wasn't Reaves.

I never put much stock in the first 20 games, but they're deep and they're good. No doubt they'll hit a rough patch at some point but If they stay healthy it could be a long spring.

 

[mas0764]

Minnesota are likely the nastiest and most physical team in the league but this game is a reminder of how overrated that is.

Skill wins in the league today.

 

[McRanger92]

Skill wins in the league today.

Need to have both, which we do. That playoff run was a game changer for the franchise

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Need to have both, which we do. That playoff run was a game changer for the franchise

Beyond that, we seem primed to show that Cup run was no fluke. This wasn't a Montreal-making-the-Finals-during-Covid run. This team appears to have arrived, and I couldn't be happier about that.

 

[TominNC]

Think of it this way, an MLB player whose average is sub .250 on the year, but batting .315 since the start of September is the kind of player you like going into the post season. But his average on the season isn't "useless". It exists, and may still be a better gauge of the kind of player overall he is, just not so relevant at this moment in time.

what matter is how you finish, but you need to get there, AND improve the further along you go.

How many games will it take this year until the metrics are shown to be unable to properly guage the Rangers chances of winning? Seriously, we have all least season, then how many this year, 25, 30, 50? Then we can say, "screw the metrics the Rangers are outliers"?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Is the concept of score adjustments that befuddling to you @TominNC? It's really just common sense. What the score is dictates to a degree how teams will play. If you are up 7-3 like the Rangers last night you aren't going to push as hard as the team trailing, therefore more likely to concede shots and attempts. It's been proven over years of data that score effects are a real phenomenon.

 

[TominNC]

Is the concept of score adjustments that befuddling to you @TominNC? It's really just common sense. What the score is dictates to a degree how teams will play. If you are up 7-3 like the Rangers last night you aren't going to push as hard as the team trailing, therefore more likely to concede shots and attempts. It's been proven over years of data that score effects are a real phenomenon.

A. That's not what the original post indicated. What I was responding to indicated that metrics said we were outplayed, but score adjusted said differently. That's more like a "duh", metrics said bad but, oh look at the score, good.

B. I get what these things say, but I get tired with the analytical looks at games that seem to ignore what we watched. You win games by outscoring the other team, if you keep doing that you're going to win. Sometimes it's not pretty and sometimes a player or two overcomes his teammates and yes the goalie is part of the team.
And so is the PP and PK.

 

[DialUp]

How many games will it take this year until the metrics are shown to be unable to properly guage the Rangers chances of winning? Seriously, we have all least season, then how many this year, 25, 30, 50? Then we can say, "screw the metrics the Rangers are outliers"?

Some models require years of data to adjust for "outliers" like the rangers were last year.

 

[mas0764]

A. That's not what the original post indicated. What I was responding to indicated that metrics said we were outplayed, but score adjusted said differently. That's more like a "duh", metrics said bad but, oh look at the score, good.

B. I get what these things say, but I get tired with the analytical looks at games that seem to ignore what we watched. You win games by outscoring the other team, if you keep doing that you're going to win. Sometimes it's not pretty and sometimes a player or two overcomes his teammates and yes the goalie is part of the team.
And so is the PP and PK.

But "what we watched," is subjective. We each saw different things or had different interpretations of those things. You've heard of coaches being upset after a win because such-and-such wasn't good enough? Bill Parcells and all, saying how even wins used to eat him alive? Why do you think that is?

Analytics help tell the story of a game, even wins where you weren't very good. And just like there were wins that were not sustainable before analytics, analytics help express those wins-where-you-still-need-to-get-better. Sometimes you win but someone smarter than you or I - a coach like Bill Parcells, for example - would say "You gotta get better at this or you aren't going to keep winning."

The concept isn't new, just the recording of the measurements are.

The analytics aren't necessarily "ignoring what we watched." Maybe you are just not seeing the bad things during some of these wins. Like, maybe "poster on a message board of a team he likes is glossing over his favorite teams flaws?" Not possible? Odd because it happens on the boards on this website for the Flyers, Devils, Islanders, etc, all the time.... And it comes off as pretty "Old man yelling at clouds," to be complaining about analytics in this day and age when most of the teams have departments devoted to it.

*to be clear, I am not referring to our 2-0 start, I had many complaints about our 5v5 play last year though and I will stand by that it was very well founded criticism.

 

[Unpredictable1]

View attachment 593905

This is EXACTLY one of the things we need Reaves here to do, especially for the kids. Foligno wouldn't have stopped at K during last night's game, glad Reaves was there to teach him some manners.

It was a beauty to watch - but I have to give props to Foligno to answering the call. Reavo still throws with real intent and is still a force to be reckoned with.

 

[DanielBrassard]

A. That's not what the original post indicated. What I was responding to indicated that metrics said we were outplayed, but score adjusted said differently. That's more like a "duh", metrics said bad but, oh look at the score, good.

B. I get what these things say, but I get tired with the analytical looks at games that seem to ignore what we watched. You win games by outscoring the other team, if you keep doing that you're going to win. Sometimes it's not pretty and sometimes a player or two overcomes his teammates and yes the goalie is part of the team.
And so is the PP and PK.

The unadjusted metrics had it about 50/50 at 5v5 but Minnesota did most of their damage early on. The metrics had a big Ranger advantage in the 2nd and 3rd periods. So the metrics never said the Rangers were outplayed.

As for the 2nd point I don't really feel like getting into and analytics vs eye test debate so I'll leave it there. But yeah sometimes teams can overcome poor 5v5 performances with goaltending, special teams, luck, whatever it may be, that's all true.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Missed this one, finally got to watch.

Wow. That was quite a performance. Absolute domination after a rough first period.

Fox, Kakko, Miller, Panarin, Laf, Trocheck, Vesey, Chytil, Zib, Kreider. Oh and Shesty keeping them in it in the first.

Trying to not get ahead of myself. But wow.

Kakko's goal...

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Need to have both, which we do. That playoff run was a game changer for the franchise

I was told we should have traded Strome for a 1st.

 

[Unpredictable1]

If McDavid or Matthews makes that play, its deemed "what else is new". Kaapo doing that just PROVES a little bit ion what he "could do". Generated from confidence........right? Was astounding imo, an absolute "power forward" move in every sense of the term.

On that particular goal last night, Kakko reminded me a lot of Peter Forsberg.

 

[hackeyman]

Not really. The people who think they should coach did not want people like Hunt or Vesey in the top 6 and have been begging for Kakko and Laf to get a chance in the top 6. We all feel pretty confident now that we are the smartest people alive.

Rough couple of days for those who think we made good line decisions last year!

You are using a false narrative. Vesey and Hunt were never going to be top 6 . If you watched the pregame pressers Gallant said as much.He said:" It's preseason , these aren't going to be the lines". He also said he knew exactly where Kakko was playing with a wink (which I interpreted to be first line). Hunt wasn't even top 12 for the first game FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

As far as last year goes Laf and Kakko developed their 200 ft. game tremendously under Gallant . Anyone saying otherwise is not living in reality.

As far as last year goes we made good enough line decisions(without a real top 9 roster until the deadline) to make it to the Eastern Conference finals after not making the playoffs a bunch of years.

 

[mas0764]

As far as last year goes Laf and Kakko developed their 200 ft. game tremendously under Gallant . Anyone saying otherwise is not living in reality.

I can't stress enough that it's really more important that they develop their offensive games.

Defense often comes later with prospects. They have to get the offense down. Super important.

There are lots of positive signs but I'd be lying if I said all doubts were extinguished.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

You are using a false narrative. Vesey and Hunt were never going to be top 6 . If you watched the pregame pressers Gallant said as much.He said:" It's preseason , these aren't going to be the lines". He also said he knew exactly where Kakko was playing with a wink (which I interpreted to be first line). Hunt wasn't even top 12 for the first game FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

As far as last year goes Laf and Kakko developed their 200 ft. game tremendously under Gallant . Anyone saying otherwise is not living in reality.

As far as last year goes we made good enough line decisions(without a real top 9 roster until the deadline) to make it to the Eastern Conference finals after not making the playoffs a bunch of years.

I'm glad you like the coach so much. I like what he has done in these 2 games. Especially with Laf moving up. We will not agree on last years decisions and that's fine. I give Igor a lot more credit than GG for much of our success last year. You are entitled to give credit however you want.

 

[JHS]

This is EXACTLY one of the things we need Reaves here to do, especially for the kids. Foligno wouldn't have stopped at K during last night's game, glad Reaves was there to teach him some manners.

It was a beauty to watch - but I have to give props to Foligno to answering the call. Reavo still throws with real intent and is still a force to be reckoned with.

This is a great point. Reavo also contributes to the " We all look out for each other" mindset that successful teams have. I can't wait to see how this translates when crunch time plays out given that these guys have now been around Reavo for 2 seasons. This is also why giving Reaves a multi year contract made a lot of sense because it shows the organization values physical play.