Confirmed with Link: Rakell to PIT for 2nd/Clang(goalie prospect)/ZAR/Simon

[Empoleon8771]

Because since day one he’s done weird things like play lesser players in the top six to layer depth.

Sounds like you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

 

[tom_servo]

Burke was literally like “when people say guys are Swiss Army knives, they’re bullshitting you and they’re bottom six guys. But Rakell is a Swiss Army knife in your bottom six.”

He clearly meant to emphasize top six to praise both Rakells versatility and skill.

I think Burke is falling off mentally if he couldn't close that analogy. Put him out to pasture.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sounds like you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

Why? I just presented information that was said on Marek’s show today and both you and @Solzhenitsyn think I’m making some proclamation that Rakell will never see top six minutes.

Marek and Burke have an extremely close relationship. Marek broke the trade likely because of that. Marek provided further clarification on a point you, @Peat and I discussed.

 

[vodeni]

The reason why I said it was obvious that Sully stated about him being in TOP 6...he started with the statement" I don't see him being a left winger for Carts" assuming that thats what Carter role would be, I figured that certainly implies that he would be moved up not down the line up

 

[Gurglesons]

The reason why I said it was obvious that Sully stated about him being in TOP 6...he started with the statement" I don't see him being a left winger for Carts" assuming that thats what Carter role would be, I figured that certainly implies that he would be moved up not down the line up

Once again. This is the logical way to read it. But this is also Mike Sullivan.

Do people forget we’ve had multiple instances of him doing bizarre things with the line-up?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think it's still completely up in the air.

Ya'll wanna bag on pixies but nobody should be surprised if Rakell ends up on L3 the rest of the way out, either.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think it's still completely up in the air.

Ya'll wanna bag on pixies but nobody should be surprised if Rakell ends up on L3 the rest of the way out, either.

yeah the coach who put Phil Kessel on L3. ran a line of Guentzel - Sheahan - Kessel while Sid and Malkin were healthy. completely redid the lines entering into G1 when they were running well in season, and didn't go back to Guentzel - Malkin - Rust once after they were at Perfection Line / MacKinnon Landy, Rantanen levels would never play a top six player on L3 because he thinks it'll work out better.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

yeah the coach who put Phil Kessel on L3. ran a line of Guentzel - Sheahan - Kessel while Sid and Malkin were healthy. completely redid the lines entering into G1 when they were running well in season, and didn't go back to Guentzel - Malkin - Rust once after they were at Perfection Line / MacKinnon Landy, Rantanen levels would never play a top six player on L3 because he thinks it'll work out better.

I don't believe a word any of these guys say to the press.

And yes NHL coaches by and large fetishize their third lines. The Penguins have a long history of it. For good and ill.

 

[Pens x]

I guess we would have to compete with 0 other NHL teams in the ZAR and Simon sweepstakes. Pittsburgh or a European club.

 

[Gurglesons]

I guess we would have to compete with 0 other NHL teams in the ZAR and Simon sweepstakes. Pittsburgh or a European club.

Still bringing them up when they are gone. Nice.

Your arguments are sleepy.

 

[Factorial]

It seems like Rakell is well liked in the locker room too, so that's neat.

He and Pettersson and friends.

 

[Factorial]

Still bringing them up when they are gone. Nice.

Your arguments are sleepy.

Apparently he can't help himself. Maybe detox would help.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Like pixies said yesterday this locker room seems pretty upbeat and happy, in general.

 

[Pens x]

Still bringing them up when they are gone. Nice.

Your arguments are sleepy.

Haha I was responding to all of the others who continued to bring them up. Some of us still have PTSD from the turds. The fact they played in 110 games this season is insane.

 

[Peat]

I ain't gonna dismiss Marek's words and who knows but the obvious interpretation of Sully's words is he's gonna get a top 6 shot and we're a long way from the three line model, but we'll see.

 

[jmelm]

Do you know what podcast and what time that was at? I'm looking at Marek's podcasts from today and I'm not seeing any indication of where Rakell would have been mentioned in the description.

@Empoleon8771 @Peat Jeff Marek double downed on Burkie’s comment about Rakell being on the bottom six.

@Peat @Empoleon8771 @Gurglesons

I'm 100% convinced that Burke either misspoke or didn't properly convey what he was trying to. Because...

He said in the interview: "Whenever someone calls a player a Swiss Army knife, he's always a bottom 6 guy....you never say with admiration that he's a Swiss Army Knife...." suggesting that Rakell should be called a Swiss Army knife WITH admiration, and goes on to praise Rakell.

So I think he was either meaning to suggest that Rakell is someone who is a REALLY good bottom 6 Swiss Army knife style of player; or perhaps he was suggesting that he's more of a top-6 or middle-6 Swiss Army knife style of player. Because he framed his description as somewhat of a comparison/suggestion that Rakell is not merely your "average Swiss Army knife type".

That's the way I interpreted it when I first heard it, and get the same impression listening to it again just now.

p.s. Keep in mind that Burke probably had no sleep the previously night or not much over the few days leading up to the deadline.

 

[Gurglesons]

@Peat @Empoleon8771 @Gurglesons

I'm 100% convinced that Burke either misspoke or didn't properly convey what he was trying to. Because...

He said in the interview: "Whenever someone calls a player a Swiss Army knife, he's always a bottom 6 guy....you never say with admiration that he's a Swiss Army Knife...." suggesting that Rakell should be called a Swiss Army knife WITH admiration, and goes on to praise Rakell.

So I think he was either meaning to suggest that Rakell is someone who is a REALLY good bottom 6 Swiss Army knife style of player; or perhaps he was suggesting that he's more of a top-6 or middle-6 Swiss Army knife style of player. Because he framed his description as somewhat of a comparison/suggestion that Rakell is not merely your "average Swiss Army knife type".

That's the way I interpreted it when I first heard it, and get the same impression listening to it again just now.

p.s. Keep in mind that Burke probably had no sleep the previously night or not much over the few days leading up to the deadline.

Rakell is with Malkin so all is right. Especially since he’s on the LW.

 

[jmelm]

Rakell is with Malkin so all is right. Especially since he’s on the LW.

All the more reason why I think he misspoke, though I expect to see Rakell on RW when Zucker comes back (assuming he comes back and doesn't have a setback or get injured again).

 

[Pens x]

It would be cool if Rakell could do more than “looked good in OT” in one of his three games. We don’t need another guy incapable of producing somewhat regularly, at best.

I know, I know, time difference, has to learn Sully’s dumbass system, new teammates, etc.

 

[jmelm]

It would be cool if Rakell could do more than “looked good in OT” in one of his three games. We don’t need another guy incapable of producing somewhat regularly, at best.

I know, I know, time difference, has to learn Sully’s dumbass system, new teammates, etc.

Dude, he got thrown into a situation of 3 games in 4 nights, beginning with back to back games after flying in on a red eye with little sleep and zero practice time.

Yes, he has to prove himself no doubt, but to expect immediate results would not have been a realistic expectation.

I’ll give him about 7-10 days (or 3 to 4 more games from now) to at least get a little acclimation to a new team, new system, and consistent new linemates before making any assessments. Anything before that, however positive or negative, is pretty much irrelevant. We need to see where he can get to and how he can sustain it.

I’m not even sure there are enough games left in the season to really be able to do that. Rather, the Pens may only be in a position after the remaining 16 games to get an educated estimation of the following:

- How do the Pens think he fits into the locker room, in terms of personnel chemistry, etc.?

- What do the Pens think of his level/display of commitment, determination, practice & work habits?

- Do they feel he’s got a good amount of gas left in the tank and in good physical/health shape to improve further to get back to or close to his prime, and how long they think he could sustain that if given the opportunity?

If the answers to those are all generally or overwhelmingly positive, they will give every effort to re-signing him to a 3 or 4 year deal. If the inverse is the case, they will let him walk as a UFA, despite giving up a decent bit to get him and not many other compelling UFA or prospect options available to us.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Dude, he got thrown into a situation of 3 games in 4 nights, beginning with back to back games after flying in on a red eye with little sleep and zero practice time.

Yes, he has to prove himself no doubt, but to expect immediate results would not have been a realistic expectation.

I’ll give him about 7-10 days (or 3 to 4 more games from now) to at least get a little acclimation to a new team, new system, and consistent new linemates before making any assessments. Anything before that, however positive or negative, is pretty much irrelevant. We need to see where he can get to and how he can sustain it.

I’m not even sure there are enough games left in the season to really be able to do that. Rather, the Pens may only be in a position after the remaining 16 games to get an educated estimation of the following:

- How do the Pens think he fits into the locker room, in terms of personnel chemistry, etc.?

- What do the Pens think of his level/display of commitment, determination, practice & work habits?

- Do they feel he’s got a good amount of gas left in the tank and in good physical/health shape to improve further to get back to or close to his prime, and how long they think he could sustain that if given the opportunity?

If the answers to those are all generally or overwhelmingly positive, they will give every effort to re-signing him to a 3 or 4 year deal. If the inverse is the case, they will let him walk as a UFA, despite giving up a decent bit to get him and not many other compelling UFA or prospect options available to us.

Serious question: is there something about our system that is so complicated that players need to be here for 5+ games before they're even acclimatized to it to the point where they don't produce and they're "eased" into the lineup on the third or fourth line?

Because you look at Florida with Giroux. His very first game with the Panthers he had 2 assists and started on a line with Barkov. How come they didn't need to start Giroux on the third or fourth line first so he could get acclimated with Florida's system?

Is there something unique about our system that new acquisitions seem to need multiple practices and multiple games, often times playing away from Sid or Geno, before they're ready to actually play a top six role?

 

[Jacob]

I’ve seen enough. Rakell is a bum.

 

[Pens x]

Serious question: is there something about our system that is so complicated that players need to be here for 5+ games before they're even acclimatized to it to the point where they don't produce and they're "eased" into the lineup on the third or fourth line?

Because you look at Florida with Giroux. His very first game with the Panthers he had 2 assists and started on a line with Barkov. How come they didn't need to start Giroux on the third or fourth line first so he could get acclimated with Florida's system?

Is there something unique about our system that new acquisitions seem to need multiple practices and multiple games, often times playing away from Sid or Geno, before they're ready to actually play a top six role?

You need to prove yourself to Sully that you deserve a spot over the greats Rodrigues and Heinen.

 

[jmelm]

Serious question: is there something about our system that is so complicated that players need to be here for 5+ games before they're even acclimatized to it to the point where they don't produce and they're "eased" into the lineup on the third or fourth line?

Because you look at Florida with Giroux. His very first game with the Panthers he had 2 assists and started on a line with Barkov. How come they didn't need to start Giroux on the third or fourth line first so he could get acclimated with Florida's system?

Is there something unique about our system that new acquisitions seem to need multiple practices and multiple games, often times playing away from Sid or Geno, before they're ready to actually play a top six role?

Serious answer: apples & oranges here.

No, I don't think our system is so unique that it would take any player much longer to adjust to us than to adjust with another team. But a sizeable adjustment period is the NORM, not the exception, when you have a player going to a new team.

There are also pretty substantial differences between Rakell and Giroux.

Firstly, Giroux is a bonafide superstar. Sure, he's slowed down a bit since his prime, but Giroux is FOURTH behind only Crosby, Ovechkin and Patrick Kane in points in the NHL since 2010. He has elite, elite hockey sense. Comparing him to Rakell, just in terms of sheer ability and also experience is not a fair comparison. Giroux has always been a guy who drives play; Rakell has always been a complementary player, not a driver. He's averaged 50% more points per game than Rakell in his career.

Second, Giroux was traded on Saturday, and he has known for weeks it was Florida and nowhere else he wanted to go. There was no time difference or difficult travel. Giroux probably flew down on a private jet and he had several days before he was inserted into the lineup. He was traded Saturday, and his first game was Thursday.

Lastly, Giroux played his first game against the team with the worst record in the NHL. He got traded to the highest scoring team in the NHL, and played his first game against the last place team in the NHL. And while Jeff Carter is a nice player these days, Giroux was playing next to Alex Barkov, who is a top 5-7 center in the NHL and is putting up more ppg than Sidney Crosby. And Giroux's other assist came on the first unit of a Top 5 Power Play in the NHL, playing with 3 guys who are averaging over a point per game (Barkov, Huberdeau and Reinhart). So yeah, it's no surprise he picked up 2 secondary assists.

Rakell is not Giroux, Pittsburgh is not Florida, and Carter is not Barkov/Huberdeau. So I think it's fair to give Rakell more time to adjust and see how he does if he gets meaningful time with Crosby or Malkin, although unlike Giroux we know Rakell is not going to be on the first unit PP. This isn't about Sullivan.

 

[Pens x]

Serious answer: apples & oranges here.

No, I don't think our system is so unique that it would take any player much longer to adjust to us than to adjust with another team. But a sizeable adjustment period is the NORM, not the exception, when you have a player going to a new team.

There are also pretty substantial differences between Rakell and Giroux.

Firstly, Giroux is a bonafide superstar. Sure, he's slowed down a bit since his prime, but Giroux is FOURTH behind only Crosby, Ovechkin and Patrick Kane in points in the NHL since 2010. He has elite, elite hockey sense. Comparing him to Rakell, just in terms of sheer ability and also experience is not a fair comparison. Giroux has always been a guy who drives play; Rakell has always been a complementary player, not a driver. He's averaged 50% more points per game than Rakell in his career.

Second, Giroux was traded on Saturday, and he has known for weeks it was Florida and nowhere else he wanted to go. There was no time difference or difficult travel. Giroux probably flew down on a private jet and he had several days before he was inserted into the lineup. He was traded Saturday, and his first game was Thursday.

Lastly, Giroux played his first game against the team with the worst record in the NHL. He got traded to the highest scoring team in the NHL, and played his first game against the last place team in the NHL. And while Jeff Carter is a nice player these days, Giroux was playing next to Alex Barkov, who is a top 5-7 center in the NHL and is putting up more ppg than Sidney Crosby. And Giroux's other assist came on the first unit of a Top 5 Power Play in the NHL, playing with 3 guys who are averaging over a point per game (Barkov, Huberdeau and Reinhart). So yeah, it's no surprise he picked up 2 secondary assists.

Rakell is not Giroux, Pittsburgh is not Florida, and Carter is not Barkov/Huberdeau. So I think it's fair to give Rakell more time to adjust and see how he does if he gets meaningful time with Crosby or Malkin, although unlike Giroux we know Rakell is not going to be on the first unit PP. This isn't about Sullivan.

All valid points except for the bs about the flight and time difference. Sure, that might impact his first game but surely not games 2 and 3.