Pre-Game Talk: RagCar

[the halleJOKEL]

i know typing that last sentence really hurt

it had to

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He's not the living dead, he's just so old that he's nearly dead.

Nah, just too busy kicking kids off of my lawn.

 

[Lempo]

Ragcar sounds like some bald toothless brute in some Conan the Barbarian knockoff.

 

[NotOpie]

Nobody's taking Rask without a horrific contract coming back. We're going to have to buy him out this summer as this is the last offseason where he can be bought out at 1/3rd of his salary due to his age. After next season it jumps up to 2/3rds of his contract.

If they buy him out after this season they'll pay him $5.33M total over the next eight years (667k/yr). If they buy him out after next season they'll have to pay him $8M total over the six years (1.3M/yr) after that, plus the 4 million for him next season, or $12M total.

They really can't afford to wait. The upside just isn't there. Someone that slow and who has such bad hands isn't going to magically turn into a good player all of a sudden. His point totals were largely inflated by playing the point on the powerplay with Faulk back when Faulk could score goals and from getting easy assists when Jeff Skinner did something. He was never someone who drove or created any sort of offense. It's not a coincidence that at the same time the team is getting so much better offensively that Rask is struggling. he's not constantly being thrown out there in every key offensive situation with talented players that inflated his point totals.

Any random player from Charlotte can do what Rask has done since last November--and I think his production to start last year was due entirely to a sky high shooting percentage and Jeff Skinner. His production since then is absolutely pathetic when you consider the ice time, powerplay time, and linemates he's gotten. And it's not just the production....he's just flat out terrible out there with no effort all, no attempt to engage physically, refusing to go to the net or do anything with the puck except skate around the perimeter constantly turning over and losing the puck for no reason. This isn't a "slump" where a player is still playing reasonably well and just not getting the results. He's horrible and a huge anchor to whatever line he's on. His skating is horrific and he's not going to magically improve at that.

Adam Gold was right.

I know I'm going to regret this, but.....I could not disagree more with certain of your characterizations. First, what I do agree with...the powerplay time and playing w/Skinner. I think both situations were advantageous to Victor, but not to the extent that you claim. For example, over the last 3 seasons, Rask has posted 10, 18, and 11 powerplay points respectively against point totals of 45, 48, and 33 points. He get well below half of his point totals from the powerplay. Getting the rebound goals, bounces, and plain open looks from playing with Skinner definitely is a plus for any player. Rask benefitted from that partnership.

However, playing with Skinner has its downside too. Simply put, Jeff doesn't really pass the puck much. He continues to do the 1 on 3 thing. All of that hurts his linemate's point totals.

With all that said, Rask seems to have lost his taste for the tough work on the boards, something he was much more effective at in his 1st two seasons, and for playing closer to the net while in the offensive zone. While never a great passer, he was accurate and serviceable. What seems to have been lost is a level of confidence which has manifested itself as a set of stone hands and an unwillingness to play at a level where mistakes can be forgiven because of good play generated from hard work. Simply put, he looks like he's tentative and trying to play it safe. What that's yielding is turnovers and bad decision-making. It is also leading him to not look for his shot, one of his very best assets.

Victor is salvageable, but he has to watch the game from the press box, hopefully getting his head on straight. He also needs to watch tape from his 1st two seasons where he was more physical, played to make plays as opposed to avoiding errors, and played well with the puck on his stick.

So no, he's not a guy we need to dump now or a guy who suddenly doesn't have the talent he showed in his 1st 2 pro seasons. As Peters said, he needs help and hopefully the organization can provide him with it.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Once Victor Rask remembers that he's got no f***ing teeth, and goes out there and plays the kind of a game that a guy with no f***ing teeth is supposed to f***ing play, then he'll be fine.

 

[Ole Gil]

One thing I noticed with Rask, is he always seems to be so far behind the wingers coming out of the zone. A lot of the times a defenseman is into the ozone on the rush before he is. Seems like that's by design, as he provides an outlet to start the breakout really deep in the dzone, but not being involved in any plays off the rush can't be helpful statistically.

I also don't think he's suited to do what Jordan Staal does. He's not a 'win 1 on 2 battles for possession.' His game is more similar to Lindholms, where he's got a hard accurate wrister, and can historically do a little bit with the puck on his stick in open ice.

Seems like he's being set up to fail a bit by being a round peg in a square hole.

 

[Unsustainable]

One thing I noticed with Rask, is he always seems to be so far behind the wingers coming out of the zone. A lot of the times a defenseman is into the ozone on the rush before he is. Seems like that's by design, as he provides an outlet to start the breakout really deep in the dzone, but not being involved in any plays off the rush can't be helpful statistically.

I also don't think he's suited to do what Jordan Staal does. He's not a 'win 1 on 2 battles for possession.' His game is more similar to Lindholms, where he's got a hard accurate wrister, and can historically do a little bit with the puck on his stick in open ice.

Seems like he's being set up to fail a bit by being a round peg in a square hole.

Let’s sell this story + 2nd for RNH

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Rask's production with 3G, 2A in 18 games played is terrible. Let's see how some guys that people discussed the Canes trading for are doing.

Sam Reinhart: 3G, 8P in 20GP (while playing wing)
Brandon Sutter: 1G, 5P in 20GP
Matt Duchene: 4G, 10P in 19GP
Alex Galchenyuk: 4G, 8P in 21GP (while playing mostly wing)

Long way to go in the season, but none of those guys are really producing any better than: Derek Ryan: 4G, 9P in 19GP Heck, Hanifin, with 9 points, has as many points as these guys as a defenseman (1 point less than Duchene).

 

[Roboturner913]

Said this somewhere else, but he's become a perimeter player. He doesn't have the speed to do that successfully. He's not going to the net, or taking direct paths to the puck, or playing physically. He's swooping and looping around like he's Skinner and he's not.

Look at Lindy by comparison, very similar skillset but faster, and he's out there getting his nose dirty and playing a blue-collar game. That's what made Rask successful in the first place but he seems to either have forgotten that or just lost all confidence.

And in some sense he is square peg/round hole but I wonder how much a healthy Stempniak on his wing would change that.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Rongos are my love

Hurricanes are also

pls

 

[Johniac]

I would agree with Robo. If you are going to play relatively "soft", you better have a lot of skill to make up for it and be creative with the puck. That is not Rask's strong point IMO, so he needs to get in there and crash the net while being sound defensively. I don't know what is holding him back and hopefully it is not the meaty contract. Confidence can be fixed, but not usually laziness.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

To be fair, it’s hard to be effective in driving the net if you can’t there in there in time. He has looked slower than usual this season, for whatever reason.

 

[VAcaniac]

I cant even remember the last time I NOTICED Rask. He could have been scratched the last 10 games for all I know.

There was that time in 2010 when we beat the Rangers at home. Miracles do happen sometimes

Good news is that we own the Maple Leafs almost as much as the Islanders and Panthers. Id prefer to stay in 9th TBH

 

[Vagrant]

rasko hate reaching peak levels here. he's not getting it done, that's for sure. but far too often we really dump a player when he gets scratched to get right. it's not an ideal situation, but rask has had consecutive 45 point seasons and it's worth it to remember how early we are. we all know how capable he has been historically and it's not uncommon at all for a player at his stage of his career to have a let down season and that seems like it would go double for a player who is signed for 4 more seasons after this one. the psychological element comes into effect at some point and it's up to our coaches to help him get the right mindset about the bigger picture of his career. what we think about rask as it pertains to his future should be more of a product of what he decides to do now as opposed to what he didn't decide to do in october and november. we tend to get pissy at players that aren't self-starters in a career like this one, but a good dose of perspective helps us all sometimes. he has the talent to get back to being useful to this team. it's good to see the organization challenge him.

 

[Lucky Lindy]

I cant even remember the last time I NOTICED Rask. He could have been scratched the last 10 games for all I know.

There was that time in 2010 when we beat the Rangers at home. Miracles do happen sometimes

Good news is that we own the Maple Leafs almost as much as the Islanders and Panthers. Id prefer to stay in 9th TBH

Well, we beat Rangers at home at last years home opener (I know because it was my first game in Raleigh).

 

[The Faulker 27]

Rask is terrible. We should be throwing tomatoes at him after the games.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Rask's production with 3G, 2A in 18 games played is terrible. Let's see how some guys that people discussed the Canes trading for are doing.

Sam Reinhart: 3G, 8P in 20GP (while playing wing)
Brandon Sutter: 1G, 5P in 20GP
Matt Duchene: 4G, 10P in 19GP
Alex Galchenyuk: 4G, 8P in 21GP (while playing mostly wing)

Long way to go in the season, but none of those guys are really producing any better than: Derek Ryan: 4G, 9P in 19GP Heck, Hanifin, with 9 points, has as many points as these guys as a defenseman (1 point less than Duchene).

Derek Ryan, second line C for life. Confirmed.

 

[JCLA]

The problem isn't just his production this season, it's his production since January last year that is alarming.

It's becoming a sustained problem rather than just a slump

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

rasko hate reaching peak levels here. he's not getting it done, that's for sure. but far too often we really dump a player when he gets scratched to get right. it's not an ideal situation, but rask has had consecutive 45 point seasons and it's worth it to remember how early we are.

I think it's fine that he's getting hate. We are a team that doesn't have much margin for error, so when guys that we count on to perform aren't cutting it (Rask and Faulk predominately), they are going to receive criticism for it. When Slavin struggled for a few games, people pointed it out. When Hanifin blew assignments early in the season, people pointed it out. When Darling laid an egg, people pointed it out.

It's early in the season, so things can change, but until they do, the criticism of Rask (and Faulk) is warranted.

 

[MinJaBen]

I think it's fine that he's getting hate. We are a team that doesn't have much margin for error, so when guys that we count on to perform aren't cutting it (Rask and Faulk predominately), they are going to receive criticism for it. When Slavin struggled for a few games, people pointed it out. When Hanifin blew assignments early in the season, people pointed it out. When Darling laid an egg, people pointed it out.

It's early in the season, so things can change, but until they do, the criticism of Rask (and Faulk) is warranted.

Add to all of that is the fact that he is signed to a $4M contract for four more years. If this is his new normal, that is going to be an anchor when we are trying to contend and all the other guys need contracts. I'd take Ryan all day long at his contract compared to Rask right now.

 

[Chrispy]

I think it's fine that he's getting hate. We are a team that doesn't have much margin for error, so when guys that we count on to perform aren't cutting it (Rask and Faulk predominately), they are going to receive criticism for it. When Slavin struggled for a few games, people pointed it out. When Hanifin blew assignments early in the season, people pointed it out. When Darling laid an egg, people pointed it out.

It's early in the season, so things can change, but until they do, the criticism of Rask (and Faulk) is warranted.

The criticism is warranted, agreed. Not sure I agree with haley's conclusion that a buyout is inevitable this off-season though. If he doesn't turn it around between now and the end of the season so we are looking at a slump from January 2017 to summer 2018? Then yes, the numbers say that a buyout at that point will be the logical risk to take with Rask even if he rebounds elsewhere.

But there's plenty of time to see what Peters can do in terms of motivation. If Rask can't be dealt because of the contract the staff might as well keep trying to get through to him this season before having to make that decision.

 

[MinJaBen]

The criticism is warranted, agreed. Not sure I agree with haley's conclusion that a buyout is inevitable this off-season though. If he doesn't turn it around between now and the end of the season so we are looking at a slump from January 2017 to summer 2018? Then yes, the numbers say that a buyout at that point will be the logical risk to take with Rask even if he rebounds elsewhere.

But there's plenty of time to see what Peters can do in terms of motivation. If Rask can't be dealt because of the contract the staff might as well keep trying to get through to him this season before having to make that decision.

I think Haley does make a good point about a buyout. It would be much more cost effective to do it this year than any later. But as you said, that is a discussion for the end of the year. There is a reasonable chance that he turns his game around. I am not optimistic given his speed and the speed of the game these days, but I wouldn't be shocked either.

 

[Chrispy]

I think Haley does make a good point about a buyout. It would be much more cost effective to do it this year than any later. But as you said, that is a discussion for the end of the year. There is a reasonable chance that he turns his game around. I am not optimistic given his speed and the speed of the game these days, but I wouldn't be shocked either.

Completely agree the numbers make sense based on the 25 and under rule. I'm shocked how cheap that buyout would be this off-season if it comes to that.

 

[CandyCanes]

I think it's fine that he's getting hate. We are a team that doesn't have much margin for error, so when guys that we count on to perform aren't cutting it (Rask and Faulk predominately), they are going to receive criticism for it. When Slavin struggled for a few games, people pointed it out. When Hanifin blew assignments early in the season, people pointed it out. When Darling laid an egg, people pointed it out.

It's early in the season, so things can change, but until they do, the criticism of Rask (and Faulk) is warranted.

Exactly. Eventually the TSA line will hit a wall. So we need guys like Rask & Faulk to step up to fill that void in production when those guys come back to earth.

 

[vorbis]

I doubt you're going to see Ron Francis buy out his first significant post-ELC signing so soon, despite how logical it might seem financially and with the cap. it's just human nature to want to see a return on your investment.