Salary Cap: Pulp Philction Edition

[cygnus47]

Fleury was our best penalty killer last year. Scuderi jus kind of stood around the crease and waved his stick. His skill set makes him an alright PK guy but in this league you shouldn't give that 3.75 a year.

Fortunate he's only getting 3.375 then

 

[mpp9]

Sounds like Max Lapierre to me. Any chance the team re-signs him, or wants to?

I just cant see JR bringing back a guy (or bringing in a guy) with little to no offense to his game. After talking about wanting balance and 4 legit lines.

Lappiere and Winnik were moves to combat Washington and NYI's "grit" advantage. It sounds like JR is commiting to a skilled lineup that suits this team better. Speed needs to be a priority as well.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Fortunate he's only getting 3.375 then

The difference is for the emotional trauma.

Scuderi still being on the team is making me sad. All of these older players are another year older, one is god awful, another sucks and the third one has barely played the last two seasons. But at least Adams is gone.

 

[SEALBound]

I have had complaints about Kunitz, Dupuis, and sutter at times over the past few years, but its almost always been tied to usage. If those three were to play on a third line, even with 2 of them losing a step it still would be a fine line. defensively solid, chippy, and absolutely able to contribute offensively. I wouldn't like the price we were paying for that line, but the line itself likely would be fine.

I agree it was all about usage...until they got 3.85 and 3.75mil contracts.

Plotnikov-Crosby-Kessel
Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Sutter-Dupuis
Wilson-Sundqvist-Bennett

Maatta-Letang
Pouliot-Cole
Dumoulin-Lovejoy
Scuderi

Fleury
Zatkoff

Kunitz/Plotnikov-Crosby-Kessel
Perron-Malkin-Hornqvist
Kunitz/Plotnikov-Sutter-Bennett
Dupuis-Slater-Sundqvist/Rust/Wilson/Sheary
Farnham

Maatta-Letang
Pouliot-Cole
Dumoulin-Lovejoy
Scuderi

Fleury
Zatkoff

Plot-Sid-Kessel
Perron-Geno-Horny

WTF? That is literally the exact opposite wing pairs for Sid and Geno. Where is this coming from?

I just cant see JR bringing back a guy (or bringing in a guy) with little to no offense to his game. After talking about wanting balance and 4 legit lines.

Lappiere and Winnik were moves to combat Washington and NYI's "grit" advantage. It sounds like JR is commiting to a skilled lineup that suits this team better. Speed needs to be a priority as well.

I think they've finally looked at Chicago's success and decided to go for skill instead of grit and I support that.

The difference is for the emotional trauma.

Scuderi still being on the team is making me sad. All of these older players are another year older, one is god awful, another sucks and the third one has barely played the last two seasons. But at least Adams is gone.

I still believe injuries will force a team to trade a 4th for Scuderi

 

[888 98 twins]

Plot-Sid-Kessel
Perron-Geno-Horny

WTF? That is literally the exact opposite wing pairs for Sid and Geno. Where is this coming

I think you're asking why I'd play Perron and Hornqvist with Malkin instead of Crosby?

Pretty simply, Perron and Hornqvist have good chemistry. Perron and Sid do not. If you have those two guys flanking Sid, you're slowing him down and not letting him play the game the way he wants to. Perron is better suited for Geno because they like to slow the game down and get fancy, and Hornqvist can play with anyone.

Granted, there are a lot of guys on here who know more about systems and chemistry than I do, so maybe I'm out to lunch, idk.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I just cant see JR bringing back a guy (or bringing in a guy) with little to no offense to his game. After talking about wanting balance and 4 legit lines.

Lappiere and Winnik were moves to combat Washington and NYI's "grit" advantage. It sounds like JR is commiting to a skilled lineup that suits this team better. Speed needs to be a priority as well.

Besides Letang and press injury dupuis what is speed

Hornqvist may have hussle but he isn't winning any races.

 

[drpepper]

Besides Letang and press injury dupuis what is speed

Hornqvist may have hussle but he isn't winning any races.

Letang, Crosby, Kessel, Sutter, Dupuis if recovered are all fast. Malkin, Pouliot and Dumoulin are all good skaters as well.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Cooke-Staal-Kennedy was pretty much the same thing. None of them are/were good playmakers but they were defensively responsible and bugged the living hell out of the defense on the forecheck. Sutter isn't Staal by any means, but if he can actually win a few board battles those two lines could match up pretty similarly.

That makes all the difference. Staal is a possession monster and Sutter is a wisp of a man who falls over if you glance at him sideways.

We might as well have Manute Bol centering our 3rd line.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Sutter has got to be the least impactful 20g scorer I've ever seen. The dude is very visibly the reason his line is ineffective the vast, vast majority of the time, yet he somehow stumbles and gets out-muscled on his way to 20g.

It's bizarre. The guy is not a dude I'd want centering my 3rd line at all. He's just far too invisible and ineffective for like 20 games at a time.

That being said, I think it's past the time when we could get a legitimate return for him. JR also seems committed to Sutter, sadly.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is this seriously the roster the Pens intend to open the 2015-16 season with? No more clearing of cap space so they don't run the risk of the same issue last year, where they had to play only 5 D when injuries hit because they left themselves with zero wiggle room after the trade deadline?

They're way too close to the cap as is. I'd hoped they'd still be trying to do everything in their power to unload at least one of Kunitz or Scuderi, just for that extra bit of cap room.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Sutter has got to be the least impactful 20g scorer I've ever seen. The dude is very visibly the reason his line is ineffective the vast, vast majority of the time, yet he somehow stumbles and gets out-muscled on his way to 20g.

It's bizarre. The guy is not a dude I'd want centering my 3rd line at all. He's just far too invisible and ineffective for like 20 games at a time.

That being said, I think it's past the time when we could get a legitimate return for him. JR also seems committed to Sutter, sadly.

I have no idea why people throw this type of comment around constantly. I've seen it in reference to Scuderi and Kunitz as well. Just because a player hadn't been moved does not automatically mean that the team is committed to him.

All three of those players, have been specifically mentioned in trade rumors this off-season (and in Sutter's case it dates back even further), and that ranges from Canadian media to local media to IC here. So I'm really at a loss as to how this conclusion seems to be reached.

 

[madinsomniac]

Is this seriously the roster the Pens intend to open the 2015-16 season with? No more clearing of cap space so they don't run the risk of the same issue last year, where they had to play only 5 D when injuries hit because they left themselves with zero wiggle room after the trade deadline?

They're way too close to the cap as is. I'd hoped they'd still be trying to do everything in their power to unload at least one of Kunitz or Scuderi, just for that extra bit of cap room.

They may be, but the glut of mid level talent still out in UFA and the limited no trade clauses each have are probably hindering them. Teams that are likely on each players no trade lists are probably younger, non contenders, in other words, the kinds of teams most likely to want an older vets experience and have cap room to burn.

Scuds would have a good amount of interest from a shot blocking defensive system or a team with young guys in need of direction on the ice. The latter is probably blocked by the contract, the former isn't going to be a reality until injuries force a team's hand.

Kunitz is probably more tradeable, but he is coming off a bad second half and there still are guys out there in UFA that are of equivalent or greater value . There are a few former top 6 guys in their mid 30's who are falling down to 3rd line status and are cheaper than Kunitz. They are in the same age range as he is and their careers aren't as tied to a superstar as Kunitz is. For less than the price you are paying for him, you probably get a high risk high reward guy like semin, or maybe Jokienen and Morrow.

Till the options die down, both of these guys aren't going anywhere

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I have no idea why people throw this type of comment around constantly. I've seen it in reference to Scuderi and Kunitz as well. Just because a player hadn't been moved does not automatically mean that the team is committed to him.

All three of those players, have been specifically mentioned in trade rumors this off-season (and in Sutter's case it dates back even further), and that ranges from Canadian media to local media to IC here. So I'm really at a loss as to how this conclusion seems to be reached.

"I'm not planning to move him," Rutherford said, via Elliotte Friedman of Sportsnet.ca. "I like him. We have 10 guys who can play in our top nine - including Beau Bennett. But, we are up against the cap pretty good, so we'll have to do something."

There are other snippets about how JR thinks Sutter's a very good player and whatnot, but it's 4am and I'm too tired/lazy to find 'em.

 

[DoktorZaius]

There are other snippets about how JR thinks Sutter's a very good player and whatnot, but it's 4am and I'm too tired/lazy to find 'em.

Maximizing trade value. Doesn't mean there's a deal to be made, but just because you're praising a player doesn't mean you're committed to him. Just look at any of the examples in recent memory of what can happen to trade value when it's very clear you're looking to move him.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Maximizing trade value. Doesn't mean there's a deal to be made, but just because you're praising a player doesn't mean you're committed to him. Just look at any of the examples in recent memory of what can happen to trade value when it's very clear you're looking to move him.

I think that's wishful/hopeful thinking, sadly. If JR wanted to move Sutter, I'm sure he'd be gone. Like I said, 20 goals or not, he was awful last season and the season before. He'll command ~$5M or more on his next deal, and I have a feeling we'll give it to him.

 

[Epic Neal Time]

Next thread should be called Wet Hot Canadian Sutter.

 

[Pete Gas]

Every morning I wake up I hope to load up the page here and see the Pens traded one of the 3 (Kunitz, Sutter and Scuderi) and every morning I'm disappointed.

 

[Penguinator]

JR - "Listen son, we're gonna give you 3 million per season."

Sutter - "What?!? I'm worth more than that! Just my name alone brings..."

JR cuts him off "for 8 seasons & you'll start getting huge bonuses after 3 years."

Sutter - "Huh what? Lulz that's cool Jim i..."

JR cuts him off again - "But we're not protecting you when the Nordiques & the Black Knights do their expansion draft so you better start learning French & gambling."

 

[Ugene Magic]

Is this seriously the roster the Pens intend to open the 2015-16 season with? No more clearing of cap space so they don't run the risk of the same issue last year, where they had to play only 5 D when injuries hit because they left themselves with zero wiggle room after the trade deadline?

They're way too close to the cap as is. I'd hoped they'd still be trying to do everything in their power to unload at least one of Kunitz or Scuderi, just for that extra bit of cap room.

Not that having around 4.0/5.0 of cap space is bad, but the overreaction to one season out of a decade of spending to the cap that had major influences to cause such a bad situation is just that.

The issue was having catastrophic injuries after the TDL (no LTIR) after replacing assets lost during the season.

Once in a decade.

I don't expect those scenarios to repeat. That's more then just a bit of wiggle room.

 

[drpepper]

I think that's wishful/hopeful thinking, sadly. If JR wanted to move Sutter, I'm sure he'd be gone. Like I said, 20 goals or not, he was awful last season and the season before. He'll command ~$5M or more on his next deal, and I have a feeling we'll give it to him.

Why is it so hard to understand that only some fans want to dump Sutter and Kunitz for nothing?

If the return isn't as good as having them on the team, then Rutherford isn't going to give them away.

 

[plaidchuck]

Didn't catch the name, but some writer picked the pens to only finish ahead of the devils next year in the division. More kessel hate by association I presume?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I have no idea why people throw this type of comment around constantly. I've seen it in reference to Scuderi and Kunitz as well. Just because a player hadn't been moved does not automatically mean that the team is committed to him.

All three of those players, have been specifically mentioned in trade rumors this off-season (and in Sutter's case it dates back even further), and that ranges from Canadian media to local media to IC here. So I'm really at a loss as to how this conclusion seems to be reached.

I agree. Though I believe the ONLY shot we had to trade Scuderi was in the Kessel deal. I don't see any other team willing to take that salary on. Unless we surrender more futures, of course, which I don't think makes sense for us.

The other two, though, SHOULD be marketable and are definitely expendable.

Not that having around 4.0/5.0 of cap space is bad, but the overreaction to one season out of a decade of spending to the cap that had major influences to cause such a bad situation is just that.

The issue was having catastrophic injuries after the TDL (no LTIR) after replacing assets lost during the season.

Once in a decade.

I don't expect those scenarios to repeat. That's more then just a bit of wiggle room.

Oh really? We have a General Manager who has done nothing but add, never SUBTRACT from the roster. Hell, Shero was like that as well.

If we don't start dumping some bodies for future assets, we'll have another season in which we're in a cap crunch. It's not once in a decade at all, it's 1-for-1 under Jim Rutherford.

The minute we see him sell ANYBODY, then your statement will ring truer.

Why is it so hard to understand that only some fans want to dump Sutter and Kunitz for nothing?

If the return isn't as good as having them on the team, then Rutherford isn't going to give them away.

Dumping Kunitz for nothing is a win for us. We need the cap space and we need to get rid of a bad contract before it becomes horrendous.

Sutter, I agree, but if we get nothing but futures for him I'm more than down with that.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Didn't catch the name, but some writer picked the pens to only finish ahead of the devils next year in the division. More kessel hate by association I presume?

OR, he's being a realist. Adding Kessel has brought back the excitement that had been missing for a few seasons now, and we are a better team for it, but we're also in a loaded division (and the conference in general is getting stronger too).

Oh I think we're better than Carolina and Philadelphia too, but we're not winning anything this coming season. Still lots of work to do.

But I'm perfectly fine with that, because we're headed in the right direction again and we're building a team around the right people for ONCE.

 

[plaidchuck]

Well if they miss the playoffs the front office will be cleaned out do that's something. If they can't finish ahead of miserable teams like carolina, somethings wrong.

I'm fine with sucking for a year to get better, but I think they'll go into panic mode especially if the defense struggles.

 

[mpp9]

Aside from the Rangers, what other defense in our division is considerably better? The Isles have Boychuk and Leddy as their best D-men. The Caps have no #1D and Orpik in their top 4. Columbus has JJ as their #1 and an oft-injured Murray.

With all the forward talent brought in this offseason, this division will be all about last goal wins. We're built to win those types of games as currently constructed.