Confirmed with Link: PTO: Tim Erixon

[NjDevsRR]

He is still pretty young... He just turned 22. I think perhaps an arguement could be made the Sharks made a mistake putting him in the NHL in his draft year and not allow him to go back to junior.

I really hope he can succeed but I think some of this board are under a false impression of what he is and where he is right now. So I think even if he does succeed we are going to have to go through a development process with him.

If he can be better defensively than Moore than we will take it.

 

[Triumph]

He is still pretty young... He just turned 22. I think perhaps an arguement could be made the Sharks made a mistake putting him in the NHL in his draft year and not allow him to go back to junior.

I really hope he can succeed but I think some of this board are under a false impression of what he is and where he is right now. So I think even if he does succeed we are going to have to go through a development process with him.

Except, of course, that's not what the Sharks did. His draft year was 2013 and he went back to juniors after that season. Since he was still property of a Swiss team, the Sharks were able to put him in the AHL when he was 19, and he split time between there and the NHL.

 

[JimEIV]

Except, of course, that's not what the Sharks did. His draft year was 2013 and he went back to juniors after that season. Since he was still property of a Swiss team, the Sharks were able to put him in the AHL when he was 19, and he split time between there and the NHL.

Semantics...he should've been in junior another year is the point.

 

[Bleedred]

For what it's worth, Adam Larsson was looking like a question mark when he was only 21-22. He had already played almost three times as many NHL games as Mueller had, by that point.

Larsson is massively overrated by some people, he was also very underrated by people just 2 or 3 years ago. I think Mueller could be better than Larsson in a couple years, or maybe he might not. My suggestion that he may be is sure to get a good laugh out of the "Larsson is teh best! The difference between lottery and playoffs for the Oilers and the difference in 14 less points for the Devils!" Cult.

My point being that Larsson's future remained in doubt, less than three years ago.

I still believe we paid too much for Mueller, but I also think that we didn't. Ideally, you don't wanna give up a 2nd round pick for Mirco Mueller, of all people. With where the current market is for D-men, you're not getting someone that's very good for cheaper. David Schlemko was had for pretty cheap by Montreal this offseason, but he's already 30 years old, probably a bottom pairing guy (a very good one though) and the fact that he's quite the journeyman over the last several years, probably has also lowered his value.

 

[BenedictGomez]

For what it's worth, Adam Larsson was looking like a question mark when he was only 21-22.

Imagine that.

 

[JimEIV]

Adam Larsson's question mark was a completely different question than Mueller's...with Larrson the question was would he ever be a top pairing defender....

I think it was pretty obvious by the time Larsson was 21 years old he was never going to elite defender and his curve would take him more toward a good middle pairing defender. At no point did anyone ever think that he wasn't an NHL player.

Mueller's question mark at this point is NHL viability.

 

[Tretyak 20]

Mueller's question mark at this point is NHL viability.

Mueller will save the planet from alien invasion. Book it. Larsson will be his Swedish side-kick.

 

[Bleedred]

Mueller's question mark at this point is NHL viability.

But he's only played 52 games over 3 years? It's not like he's struggled to stick after his ELC already expired. The Sharks have had some pretty decent defensemen in front of him over the years.

 

[BenedictGomez]

But he's only played 52 games over 3 years? It's not like he's struggled to stick after his ELC already expired. The Sharks have had some pretty decent defensemen in front of him over the years.

Mueller's played 54 games.

Not to mention, Jon Merrill "only" had 52 (no....really....look it up) games under his belt at precisely the same age as Mueller, even though Merrill played for a team with a "pile of sick" defensemen in front of him.

Just another reason why the Merrill is infinitely superior to Mueller because........NHL experience....... argument is so silly.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

The Sharks botched his development, period.

He was thrown in a situation he wasn't ready for too early and got bumped down the depth chart for the next couple of years by superior and more experienced players. You can't play the yo-yo game with young players, it just messes up their game and their confidence.

It's now up to our coaching staff to fix the mess the Sharks started and unfortunately for most of our fans around here, it won't happen overnight. However, I do think there's something to be done with Mueller cause he does have several intangibles that can make him a solid 2nd pairing dman.

 

[JimEIV]

Mueller's played 54 games.

Not to mention, Jon Merrill "only" had 52 (no....really....look it up) games under his belt at precisely the same age as Mueller, even though Merrill played for a team with a "pile of sick" defensemen in front of him.

Just another reason why the Merrill is infinitely superior to Mueller because........NHL experience....... argument is so silly.

Merrill was playing top 4 minutes his first year, the same age Mueller was last season. He averaged over 19 minutes and was regularly playing over 20 minutes...he had a 24:25 minute game as s rookie.

Look at his game log from his first year.
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/merrijo01/gamelog/2014

Merrill nearly played as much in one game this season as Mueller played all season.

Please, please, please stop these comparisions...they don't make sense. Not even a little.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

Merrill was playing top 4 minutes his first year, the same age Mueller was last season. He averaged over 19 minutes and was regularly playing over 20 minutes...he had a 24:25 minute game as s rookie.

Look at his game log from his first year.
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/merrijo01/gamelog/2014

Merrill nearly played as much in one game this season as Mueller played all season.

Please, please, please stop these comparisions...they don't make sense. Not even a little.

Merril didn't have to pass anyone to get icetime on this crap blueline we've been icing since he got here. The same can't be said about Mueller, who was on a contending team since he got to SJ.

 

[JimEIV]

Merril didn't have to pass anyone to get icetime on this crap blueline we've been icing since he got here. The same can't be said about Mueller, who was on a contending team since he got to SJ.

That's completely false. The Defense was decent.

Our defense wasn't terrible Merrill's rookie year. That 2013-14 team was 6th in the league in Goals against.

Greene 82 games
Zidlicky 81
Fayne 72
Gelinas 62
Volchenkov 56
Merrill 52
Salvador 40
Harrold 33
Larsson 28

Check the game logs...In the 2nd half of the 2014 season every LHD was available the majority of the time. All of Greene, Salvador, Gelinas, Volchenkov and Merrill were playing in January through March. Merrill was still playing big minutes.. There were plenty of choices at LHD other than a rookie Jon Merrill.

Let's not revise history, Merrill was very good his first year and earned his time.

 

[Triumph]

They were dressing 7 D at that point a lot of the time and Gelinas was getting fewer and fewer minutes as the season went on.

 

[JimEIV]

They were dressing 7 D at that point a lot of the time and Gelinas was getting fewer and fewer minutes as the season went on.

I agree.

And Gelinas played left and right sides he was also playing forward more often toward the end of season.

But Merrill had solidify himself as a top 4 defender well before that. Over Gelinas, Volchenkov and Salvador... perhaps not a large feat but the Deboer meme was he always goes with the veterans right?



April 7th 2014:
DeBoer has had plenty to say about fellow rookie defenseman Jon Merrill. “He’s the real deal,†DeBoer said of Merrill. “I thought he was outstanding in Carolina. When he’s not in the lineup we miss him. He has a rare ability, with the composure to make plays under pressure, to never panic with the puck and always be in the right position. “Everything a coach is looking for from any age player, never mind a young kid coming into the lineup.â€

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

That's completely false. The Defense was decent.

Our defense wasn't terrible Merrill's rookie year. That 2013-14 team was 6th in the league in Goals against.

Greene 82 games
Zidlicky 81
Fayne 72
Gelinas 62
Volchenkov 56
Merrill 52
Salvador 40
Harrold 33
Larsson 28

Check the game logs...In the 2nd half of the 2014 season every LHD was available the majority of the time. All of Greene, Salvador, Gelinas, Volchenkov and Merrill were playing in January through March. Merrill was still playing big minutes.. There were plenty of choices at LHD other than a rookie Jon Merrill.

Let's not revise history, Merrill was very good his first year and earned his time.

Are you really trying to prove a point with that list?

Zidlicky, Volchenkov and Fayne all played the right side and anyone outside of Greene on our left side was pure and utter garbage.

He was basically the best of the worst.

 

[Goptor]

Merrill was seen as a potential #2 defenseman and top 4 player at the minimum his rookie year. He has regressed every year since then and is a borderline NHLer right now.

So.. Yes, Merrill in 2014 is better than Mueller in 2017 but Merrill in 2017 isn't necessarily better than Mueller in 2017.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Merrill was playing top 4 minutes his first year, the same age Mueller was last season.

Devils 2013 - A Non playoff team with a poor defense.

Sharks 2016 - A Stanley Cup contender with arguably the best Defense in the entire Western Conference.

Yeah, because minutes played there is a sensible comparison.

That's completely false. The Defense was decent.

Greene 82 games
Zidlicky 81
Fayne 72
Gelinas 62
Volchenkov 56
Merrill 52
Salvador 40
Harrold 33
Larsson 28

On what planet with horrible ice hockey is the above defense "decent"?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Are you really trying to prove a point with that list?

It's only been a few years later, and yet over half that list isn't even in the NHL anymore. And not by choice! LOL And a few of them were elderly NHL hangers-on by 2014.

Zidlicky - Old now, he was old then, I dont think he's officially retired, but he's not in the NHL
Fayne - Plays in the AHL
Gelinas - Couldnt crack the roster on literally the worst team in the entire NHL (UFA now I believe)
Volchenkov - Played his way out of the NHL, banished to the KHL
Salvador - retired due to injuries, but IMO he wasnt an NHL player even the last few years that he technically actually was an NHL player.
Harrold - Played a full season in the AHL. Unsigned UFA.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

It's only been a few years later, and yet over half that list isn't even in the NHL anymore. And not by choice! LOL And a few of them were elderly NHL hangers-on by 2014.

Zidlicky - Old now, he was old then, I dont think he's officially retired, but he's not in the NHL
Fayne - Plays in the AHL
Gelinas - Couldnt crack the roster on literally the worst team in the entire NHL (UFA now I believe)
Volchenkov - Played his way out of the NHL, banished to the KHL
Salvador - retired due to injuries, but IMO he wasnt an NHL player even the last few years that he technically actually was an NHL player.
Harrold - Played a full season in the AHL. Unsigned UFA.

Exactly my point... and like i said, Merrill had to pass Harrold and a vet that should've been our #7 if it wasn't for the fact he had a "C" on his jersey. With those mediocre options on the left side, it's no wonder we were playing Merrill over 20 Minutes a game or whatever numbers Jim pulled out.

 

[JimEIV]

Exactly my point... and like i said, Merrill had to pass Harrold and a vet that should've been our #7 if it wasn't for the fact he had a "C" on his jersey. With those mediocre options on the left side, it's no wonder we were playing Merrill over 20 Minutes a game or whatever numbers Jim pulled out.

Harrold was a RHD and took Larssons job the last half of 2014. Dont remember that? Merrill was never in competition with him.

Gelinas sucked but he had moments in 2014 that kept in the lineup, enough for 60+ games.

Fayne did not suck then, not even close...then Lou was moron for letting a "top pairing defender walk". But he was also a RHD. Revisionism to highest degree going on here.

Zidlicky was Zidlicky and he was very good at what he did. He had 12 goals and 42 points that season.

There is an awful lot of revisionism going on here...Nobody was claiming our defense sucked then..in fact 9 out 10 here were trading our Defense for forward help everyday on the main board.

Again the 2013-14 Devils were 6th in the league in Goals Against...They allowed 5 fewer goals against than the 2016-17 Sharks who were 5th in the league in Goals Against.

Comparing Mueller to Merrill is absurd on every imaginable level. At no level has Mueller accomplished anything. Merrill was the best rookie Defensemen in the CCHA offensively and Defensively his first year at Michigan, he was a two time team USA U20 WJC player scoring 9 points in 12 games (.75 points per game)...he had .67 points per game in the AHL scoring 18 points in 27 games.

That's what Merrill brought to the table when stepped into the league...what is Mueller bringing? Mueller has gone backwards since he was drafted.

Mentioning Mueller in the same breath as Merrill is pure insanity. I honestly can't believe this conversation is even being had

.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Again the 2013-14 Devils were 6th in the league in Goals Against.

I'm not exactly sure how they pulled that off. They were not a great defense collectively.

EDIT#2: Just checked, and they were actually 9th in the league in Goals Against that season.

 

[JimEIV]

Cory Schneider, NHL leading 1.97 GAA >>>>>>>> 2013 Devils defense.

Schneider was ROBBED of the Vezina that year, repeatedly bailing out that "amazing" defense.

Rask won it, and he was very deserving with a bit better SVP than Cory, but a bit worse GAA than Cory, but certainly with a much BETTER Bruins' defense in front of him. Should have gone to Cory, but non playoff goalies virtually never get nominated for the Vezina, much less win the Vezina.

No goalie should ever be in contention for the Vezina only playing 45 games...let alone with only 16 wins.

And his save% at .921 was practically league average.

http://m.espn.com/nhl/leagueleaders...Type=2&statgroup=goaltending&category=savePct

 

[BenedictGomez]

No goalie should ever be in contention for the Vezina only playing 45 games...let alone with only 16 wins.

Yes, I deleted that upon seeing I had the entirely incorrect year.

Though Cory & Brodeur collectively had about a 2.20 (Raask won and he had a 2.07), which is similar logic in terms of awesome goaltending, just not as amazing as 1.97.

EDIT: Also just checked the next year since it was basically the same defense I think (minus Volchenkov basically IIRC) and they finished middle of the pack at #15. That year Schneider was beaten like an overworked rented mule playing almost 70 games, he put up a 2.26 with a .925.

 

[Triumph]

No goalie should ever be in contention for the Vezina only playing 45 games...let alone with only 16 wins.

And his save% at .921 was practically league average.

http://m.espn.com/nhl/leagueleaders...Type=2&statgroup=goaltending&category=savePct

lol, practically league average. You do never give up, I have to give you credit. Always pretending to not understand things when you get called out, too. 'I looked at the wrong thing', 'I didn't understand this', etc.

Schneider was 16th out of 61 goalies who played more than 20 games in SV% in 2013-14. Oh and he plays in a building that chronically undercounts shots that robs him of a save or two per game.