Honestly, as much as they want to start Mukh in the AHL, I don't think the "veterans" have shown that they deserve a roster spot over him. Benning, Simek, Knyz, Burroughs, MacDonald - and yes, even Ferraro and Rutta - have not shown the same level of compete as old man Marc-Eduard Vlasic. And that, to me, is completely the wrong mindset. When the husk of Vlasic is out competing you, I don't think you deserve a spot in the big league. Thrun and Mukh have shown that hunger, that desire to play, so let them play.
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Honestly, as much as they want to start Mukh in the AHL, I don't think the "veterans" have shown that they deserve a roster spot over him. Benning, Simek, Knyz, Burroughs, MacDonald - and yes, even Ferraro and Rutta - have not shown the same level of compete as old man Marc-Eduard Vlasic. And that, to me, is completely the wrong mindset. When the husk of Vlasic is out competing you, I don't think you deserve a spot in the big league. Thrun and Mukh have shown that hunger, that desire to play, so let them play.
coooldude
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Makes sense. I suspect (whether mistake or not) that they'll still give the roster spots, at least initially, to the guys who have made it through an NHL season even if they look like shite. And, it helps us to suck more, so... yay?
hckygeek
sharks fan for life
I have been around here since AOL hockey message boards were relevant, and the twins started Hockey's Future. I rarely post, but I enjoy all the knowledge shared freely.
All the negativity with four preseason games played is dull as dishwater, cheap, lazy, and full of unrealistic expectations. Some players have played two games, no definitive lines and pairings solidified, and thirty-plus players are new to the Sharks or prospects and, I assume, are all trying to do their best and deal with their emotions.
Does anyone expect this team not to be a lottery team? Isn't this the time to love hockey more than winning? Did we expect the coaching staff to be pushing four or five prospects to superstar players within one year? Are we implicating Ricci, Sibiza, Wingels, Marleau, Nabokov, Speer, and Miller as shoddy development coaches?
I've always believed you come and stay in Silicon Valley to build things. The Bay Area is spoiled with sports riches. We don't just win pennants, trophies, and championships; we build dynasties. I still believe the Sharks can and will do it. I love the direction MGGM has in place in a year.
All the negativity with four preseason games played is dull as dishwater, cheap, lazy, and full of unrealistic expectations. Some players have played two games, no definitive lines and pairings solidified, and thirty-plus players are new to the Sharks or prospects and, I assume, are all trying to do their best and deal with their emotions.
Does anyone expect this team not to be a lottery team? Isn't this the time to love hockey more than winning? Did we expect the coaching staff to be pushing four or five prospects to superstar players within one year? Are we implicating Ricci, Sibiza, Wingels, Marleau, Nabokov, Speer, and Miller as shoddy development coaches?
I've always believed you come and stay in Silicon Valley to build things. The Bay Area is spoiled with sports riches. We don't just win pennants, trophies, and championships; we build dynasties. I still believe the Sharks can and will do it. I love the direction MGGM has in place in a year.
That's what they get for not tanking properly for Bedard.
Alaskanice
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It would be nice if you did post more often.
karltonian
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Just have to take issue with this part of the post ... there is no evidence to the contrary yet. Particularly Nabokov, as much as I like him, goaltending has not developed in a positive direction at all.
Didn't 5 of them just get hired either this offseason or at the latest late offseason last season?
I don’t understand why people think 3 preseason games will out weight multiple years of NHL experience in the case of Benning, Rutta, Ferraro.
For the vets Preseason is about shaking off the rust and not getting hurt.
Well the past few seasons for most of the ones mentioned was not that great either. So we should not play ones that have shown potential to be better then those vets because they might have been good years ago.
karltonian
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Ricci and Nabby have been around for years
Wingels, Speer, and Sbisa came on last offseason -- seen any development in the year since?
Bords, Eklund, gushchin. I would say all seen development last season.
karltonian
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Beyond their natural development from playing another year? Little evidence to the contrary IMO.
Then ferraro should be the best defensemen in the league now with extra years of development considering how he came into the NHL.
Oh wait players regress also without the right development plan even with years of experience.
karltonian
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What point are you even trying to make? There is little evidence that the development program is any better than it has been and it still contains a couple of key personnel that have shown no appreciable results. This isn't a debate.
Alaskanice
Registered User
Bords and Eklund both have shown up for this years camp in a better position then they left last season, that means that the development team worked with both of them during the offseason.
Jargon
Registered User
So if the players didn’t develop, it’s the coaches, but if they did, it’s their natural development. That feels like a fairly unfair assessment?
I think some of the guys we really wanted to take a step forward did, and I’m even seeing improvement in that second tier of prospects, like Ozzy.
Hodge
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Is this really the case with Bordeleau? He seems as far from carving out a regular NHL role as he ever has been.
Bords is showing more this preseason and rookie showcase tournament then he was showing late in the season last year.
coooldude
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This same debate came up on Reddit. It's clear the sharks haven't been the league's best development team. It's fairly clear that the Cuda development pipeline is not league leading and it may be in the bottom third. But there's so much statistical noise with development (players have agency, but also luck as they grow... drafting is very noisy... Injuries are noisy... and AHL performance is noisy). It would require a bunch of years of data, and many prospects, normalizing NHL games played and points scored versus draft position, in order to even get a decent, noisy answer about which teams in the league are obviously developmentally strong, which teams are mediocre, and which teams are truly bad. Beyond this squinty assessment, I'm not sure how confident the numbers would be.
All this to say, I think it's pretty hard to definitively say that our development program is bad, but there's probably enough evidence to say it's probably not good. If pulled together well.
All this to say, I think it's pretty hard to definitively say that our development program is bad, but there's probably enough evidence to say it's probably not good. If pulled together well.
Great post. If there's any way that it was replying to me, let me just say clearly that I'm deeply enjoying following the Sharks for the first time since 2016 (wasn't a believer in 2019 so it just felt bad). It's going to be a bad year, probably 2-3 more, but the building process feels fresh and promising within a 10-year horizon.
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We have no idea if the Sharks current development team is good or bad. We do know the old development team was bad, and some of the same people are still here.
I think Nabokov is pretty obviously incompetent and should not be part of the organization's coaching or management staff.
It will take several years to see whether the new staff is good or not. We absolutely will not see anything worth noting in the span of one off-season and a handful of meaningless training camp games.
I think Nabokov is pretty obviously incompetent and should not be part of the organization's coaching or management staff.
It will take several years to see whether the new staff is good or not. We absolutely will not see anything worth noting in the span of one off-season and a handful of meaningless training camp games.
karltonian
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As I said, there is little evidence to counter the claim that the development team is shoddy, and what evidence does exist on members of the team is not flattering.
Anyone wanting to respond should read the context of the post I am replying to.
one2gamble
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There is no evidence because it's mostly brand new and larger than it had been. The development team in place is Grier's and there hasn't been time to show much but you can see that some people did put in time over the summer.
karltonian
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There is evidence that players has shown up to camp better then they finished the season last year, and that is not just on a new year of experience.
