Prospects and Marlies Thread - April 2016

[LaPlante94]

which linemates would you give matthews?
I'd go:
hyman matthews nylander
grinder with a skill guy that should hold up defensively

I'd put JVR/Komarov on his LW and Marner on his RW

 

[RomanianLeafs]

I'd put JVR/Komarov on his LW and Marner on his RW

Vesey Matthews Marner if we sign Vesey if not Komarov

 

[burpsalot]

After watching him in his last few games I have come to the conclusion that Nylander isn't good enough for the AHL, we'll have to send him back to a level were he can perform. We're sending him back to the NHL where he can work on his game for the AHL.

Either that or he may be sick or ailing.

 

[NoTouchIcing]

He's playing well as a centre. The Marlies' system is extremely passive, trap-like even. Not much forecheck. If it's a dump in or not a chance of possession, they completely back off.

With that in mind, Nylander's defensive game has been EXCEPTIONAL. He's covered high as the third forward, jumping in only when he makes or joins a real scoring chance.

I've been really impressed with his play away from the puck, because we know he can do it with the puck when pressed for it.

 

[Booba]

Well he started in the NCAA, but switched to the OHL. So I don't think the 4 year rule for NCAA players applies anymore. I could be wrong though if someone more well versed can correct me.

From the CBA
If a player does not remain a bona fide college student throughout the graduation of his college class, his drafting club retain exclusive rights for the negotiation of his services until the fourth June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft.

Toronto hold his rights until June 1st 2018.
https://m.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/41mhox/do_tony_cameranisis_rights_expire_at_the_end_of/

 

[Josh92]

A sick 19 year old kid has had a mediocre AHL playoff and we want to bash him... Yup, Nylander is Alex Semin 2.0. I'm a die hard Leaf fan, have been since I was 5 but cmon man this is beyond ridiculous. Posts like this are why alot of top players don't wanna play here. The scrutiny is abaurd some times.

 

[moon111]

He's a bust. Trade him for McDavid.

 

[Gabriel426]

Pretty sure this type of posts won't even comes up if the Leafs is drafting 4th.

 

[burpsalot]

From the CBA
If a player does not remain a bona fide college student throughout the graduation of his college class, his drafting club retain exclusive rights for the negotiation of his services until the fourth June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft.

Toronto hold his rights until June 1st 2018.
https://m.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/41mhox/do_tony_cameranisis_rights_expire_at_the_end_of/

That's what I was thinking.

Thanks.

 

[Drew311]

which linemates would you give matthews?
I'd go:
hyman matthews nylander
grinder with a skill guy that should hold up defensively

JVR - Matthews - Nylander
Komarov - Kadri - Marner

This is more of a 2017-18 top six.

 

[BackHandShelf22]

First liner NHLers always have vision. That's why they dominate at the lower levels, the game actually moves slower for them but they can also keep up at the NHL level. Can some guys adjust? Sure to some extent but Nylander is like a deer in the headlights. It's not that he doesn't want to get into the action it's just that he can't.

I question how much you've actually seen him play. There's just so much wrong here. I understand the need to create an edgy opinion, but this seems a little far and beyond.

 

[NiL8r87]

First liner NHLers always have vision. That's why they dominate at the lower levels, the game actually moves slower for them but they can also keep up at the NHL level. Can some guys adjust? Sure to some extent but Nylander is like a deer in the headlights. It's not that he doesn't want to get into the action it's just that he can't.

We haven't seen Mathews and Laine play a quarter of a season in the NHL but they might not be able to do it either. McDavid and Eichel most certain can and it was obvious from their first games. It's not about points and it's certainly not about skills.

The concept of development seems to be lost on you. It took Eichel more than 22 games before he was dominating, and no ones claiming that Nylander is as good of a prospect as Eichel is.

 

[666]

I question how much you've actually seen him play. There's just so much wrong here. I understand the need to create an edgy opinion, but this seems a little far and beyond.

I appreciate your civility. I've seen some of about 10 or so NHL games of Nylander and the highlights. I only watch NHL and Olympic hockey and the occasional Knights game live.

I don't watch the puck. I watch the holes.

I'll repeat, Nylander has mad skillz. But he can't keep up with the pace of NHL first liners in traffic. Of course given a breakaway or a huge hole he is money. BUT he can't find the holes because he can't see them. They move too fast for him. It happens to everyone, they hit their limit and he has hit his AND he's not strong enough to just create or barge through them.

All players at his level must face their limit. He's hit it and it's very obvious if you look for it. He'll be a fine second liner probably but that's it. It's obvious if you stop watching the puck.

It's very similar to Kadri at a similar age except Kadri had more grit (physical) and Nylander has more skill. It's about even.

I'm not a hater and I'm not trying to be edgy. The only thing I hate is the homers. Stop watching the puck.

 

[666]

The concept of development seems to be lost on you. It took Eichel more than 22 games before he was dominating, and no ones claiming that Nylander is as good of a prospect as Eichel is.

It's not about being dominating. It's about keeping up. Have you ever driven a car scary fast? It doesn't take a lot of practice before you find your limit. It's EXACTLY the same thing. Sure you can practice and get a bit better but some guys just know how to drive fast, it's natural.

 

[NiL8r87]

I appreciate your civility. I've seen some of about 10 or so NHL games of Nylander and the highlights. I only watch NHL and Olympic hockey and the occasional Knights game live.

I don't watch the puck. I watch the holes.

I'll repeat, Nylander has mad skillz. But he can't keep up with the pace of NHL first liners in traffic. Of course given a breakaway or a huge hole he is money. BUT he can't find the holes because he can't see them. They move too fast for him. It happens to everyone, they hit their limit and he has hit his AND he's not strong enough to just create or barge through them.

All players at his level must face their limit. He's hit it and it's very obvious if you look for it. He'll be a fine second liner probably but that's it. It's obvious if you stop watching the puck.

It's very similar to Kadri at a similar age except Kadri had more grit (physical) and Nylander has more skill. It's about even.

I'm not a hater and I'm not trying to be edgy. The only thing I hate is the homers. Stop watching the puck.

No one's disputing your evaluation of his game at this time, yourself and others have made good points. Its your attempt to frame this as Nylander's peak that blows my mind. I mean you've actually just insinuated that he's hit his limit and he'll never be able to keep pace with 1st liners after 22 games in the NHL, after one of the most dominant AHL seasons ever for a sub-20 year old.

 

[Future]

Actually Nylanders isn't even close to Phil 2.0. Kessel is one the top players in the league in vision and skill. The major difference between Kessel and Crosby is that Crosby is so much stronger on his skates. He can make holes. Kessel isn't necessarily afraid of contact he just knows that he can't handle it but his vision and skills are close to Crosby's. Nylander has the skills but not the vision or the physical. He'll play in the league but it's unlikely he becomes a first liner.

Nylander was a PPG player in the NHL in the last 10 or so games and looked dominant against teams in the playoff hunt at the end of the season. All of this at the age of 19.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Please play Hyman and Willie together

 

[NiL8r87]

It's not about being dominating. It's about keeping up. Have you ever driven a car scary fast? It doesn't take a lot of practice before you find your limit. It's EXACTLY the same thing. Sure you can practice and get a bit better but some guys just know how to drive fast, it's natural.

Again, hes a 19 year old rookie for God's sake. And he just had one of the best seasons ever for a 19 year old in the A. Go watch Stamkos in his rookie year compared to now. Go watch Tarasenko. There's so many other players I could cite who DEVELOP THEIR SKILLS in their rookie seasons and beyond.

 

[Garthinater]

I appreciate your civility. I've seen some of about 10 or so NHL games of Nylander and the highlights. I only watch NHL and Olympic hockey and the occasional Knights game live.

I don't watch the puck. I watch the holes.

I'll repeat, Nylander has mad skillz. But he can't keep up with the pace of NHL first liners in traffic. Of course given a breakaway or a huge hole he is money. BUT he can't find the holes because he can't see them. They move too fast for him. It happens to everyone, they hit their limit and he has hit his AND he's not strong enough to just create or barge through them.

All players at his level must face their limit. He's hit it and it's very obvious if you look for it. He'll be a fine second liner probably but that's it. It's obvious if you stop watching the puck.

It's very similar to Kadri at a similar age except Kadri had more grit (physical) and Nylander has more skill. It's about even.

I'm not a hater and I'm not trying to be edgy. The only thing I hate is the homers. Stop watching the puck.

You do realise most players his age are still in the juniors? Yet after a good but limited nhl showing and a very strong ahl season he's not good enough to be a first liner? What makes you qualified or competent enough to make that call? Not sure which team you're a fan of but you should go back over there

 

[Community]

Nylander doesn't hunt the puck when he doesn't have it and waits for others to retrieve it and get it to him, and its the reason that some believe he makes a better winger then a centre based on that style.

His complacency without the puck is something Babcock pointed out needs to improve for his compete level.

Nylander is really more a follow then a true leader. Doesn't speak to his skill level but it does his compete level. When he has the puck look out however as that is when the Willie magic comes to the surface.

I don't believe the bolded... I would understand if you said Nylander doesn't hunt along the boards, but he is fantastic at pick-pocketing and always looks to get the puck when it isn't along the boards (which is typically the wingers job). It was easiest to see last year during pre-season when he had multiple offensive-zone turnovers because he sneaked up on players. He just doesn't use his body to do this so it seems like he's not hunting the puck as much, but he is.... He just uses his stick instead of battling/physical play.

 

[diceman934]

I appreciate your civility. I've seen some of about 10 or so NHL games of Nylander and the highlights. I only watch NHL and Olympic hockey and the occasional Knights game live.

I don't watch the puck. I watch the holes.

I'll repeat, Nylander has mad skillz. But he can't keep up with the pace of NHL first liners in traffic. Of course given a breakaway or a huge hole he is money. BUT he can't find the holes because he can't see them. They move too fast for him. It happens to everyone, they hit their limit and he has hit his AND he's not strong enough to just create or barge through them.

All players at his level must face their limit. He's hit it and it's very obvious if you look for it. He'll be a fine second liner probably but that's it. It's obvious if you stop watching the puck.

It's very similar to Kadri at a similar age except Kadri had more grit (physical) and Nylander has more skill. It's about even.

I'm not a hater and I'm not trying to be edgy. The only thing I hate is the homers. Stop watching the puck.

What a load....you can not see holes when watching the game on TV as the camera is on the puck.....

So you basically typed a useless opinion based on what you can see with a limited view as you claim you do not watch the puck and that is all that the TV shows the viewer.

The only think I hate on here is nonsense and you post a lot of it....

 

[666]

What a load....you can not see holes when watching the game on TV as the camera is on the puck.....

So you basically typed a useless opinion based on what you can see with a limited view as you claim you do not watch the puck and that is all that the TV shows the viewer.

The only think I hate on here is nonsense and you post a lot of it....

You sir, deserve a special response as you obviously have no clue what I'm talking about and you clearly are a puck watcher.

Yes, the camera on TV follows the puck and yes live it's easier to follow the holes BUT unless you have never played any sport at any level you clearly have zero concept of vision.

People like you will never understand what happens away from the puck or the ball in sport. You will only see skill, shooting, skating, fighting, strength.

I assume that you are very young but to have missed the magic of Gretzky's vision is very sad. If you ever get a chance to watch a full Gretzky game on video and you just follow the puck you'll miss all of his magic. ALL of it.

The most recent thing that you entirely missed was Kessel. Yes he sucked physically but man could he see the ice. Truly elite and with amazing skills as well.

But you watch the puck, you miss everything. You have no idea of where people should be even if they aren't on camera. I can only feel sorry for you because you're a sports fan and you don't understand sports.

 

[DD03]

Smells like the off-season in here..

Yup.

 

[666]

Nylander was a PPG player in the NHL in the last 10 or so games and looked dominant against teams in the playoff hunt at the end of the season. All of this at the age of 19.

It has nothing to do with points.

Again, hes a 19 year old rookie for God's sake. And he just had one of the best seasons ever for a 19 year old in the A. Go watch Stamkos in his rookie year compared to now. Go watch Tarasenko. There's so many other players I could cite who DEVELOP THEIR SKILLS in their rookie seasons and beyond.

It has nothing to do with skills. Nylander has elite skill but below average vision for a first liner, very similar to Kadri. Kadri never was and never will be a first liner.

You do realise most players his age are still in the juniors? Yet after a good but limited nhl showing and a very strong ahl season he's not good enough to be a first liner? What makes you qualified or competent enough to make that call? Not sure which team you're a fan of but you should go back over there

My qualification is that I watch the game not the puck. Do you watch the ball when you watch football? If so then you don't know how to watch football because you are supposed to watch the line. The line knows where the holes will be before the quarterback even gets ready to move the ball.

All sports that move quickly are the same.

Back to hockey, if you watch first liners when they are Nylanders age they are obviously first liners. McDavid and Eichel are the most recent and most obvious examples. The Leafs haven't had many lately.

Again, Nylander has top level skill but he can't keep pace with first line NHL speed. Maybe second line. If you don't see it you aren't watching properly. The only way that I can explain it is to not watch where the puck is but where it will be in the future and then watch for players that know where it will be. Nylander isn't one of them.

 

[Gabriel426]

He is 19. Pretty sure he can improve and frankly, I think his vision is fine for a 1st liner. He might not be Wayne or Mario or Sakic or Thornton but to say that he can't catch up to other 1st liner now and ever is a pretty bold statement. Once again, r u Simmons or Jonas?