Press Conference Discussion - Part Deux

[ottawa]

The teams dismal offence sunk the team in the 18 games that were lost by 1 goal. Our production was 1.67 goals per game on average in those losses. With Price in net our goals against average in those 18 games could have been reduced from 3.00 goals against to 2.00 goals against, still not good enough to salvage enuff wins to make the playoffs. So in the most critical games of the year Price probably wouldnt have been a big factor.
It truly lies in the anemic offence.

Some people made arguments that this team plays a different game in front of Price and scores more...not sure if there is truth to that, but if there is, then I think the habs with Price could win a handful of those 18 losses.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Some people made arguments that this team plays a different game in front of Price and scores more...not sure if there is truth to that, but if there is, then I think the habs with Price could win a handful of those 18 losses.

Would they have won more than a handful if they had strong offensive depth that had been upgraded over the course of 4 years through trades and signings?

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Both are acceptable spellings actually. "Spelt" is less common in American English, where "Spelled" is the preferred spelling, while "Spelt" is the preferred spelling in British English.

Thank you for bringing that to our attention. I use American English exclusively because British English seems archaic.

 

[ottawa]

Would they have won more than a handful if they had strong offensive depth that had been upgraded over the course of 4 years through trades and signings?

Can't say for sure, I'd lean towards a yes but it's really impossible to say. It depends on injuries, chemistry, under/over-performances, etc.

 

[habalifeok]

Some people made arguments that this team plays a different game in front of Price and scores more...not sure if there is truth to that, but if there is, then I think the habs with Price could win a handful of those 18 losses.

Price makes a big difference but more goal scoring is required through a combination of improved pp and better players.

 

[LaP]

Some people made arguments that this team plays a different game in front of Price and scores more...not sure if there is truth to that, but if there is, then I think the habs with Price could win a handful of those 18 losses.

I think Price can help the team score a little bit more. Not necessarily because the team plays differently but let's be honest for a sec Price is really good outside his net while well Condon is kind of bad.

Price will intercept a dump behind his net and will make a pass (sometimes to a player outside the dzone). Condon most of the time will intercept it and wait for the dman to come get the puck or at best will make a very short pass to a dman standing in the corner. With Price most of the time the dman don't have to come get the puck.

For one the dman don't waste energy skating to get the puck and for two it prevent the other team from applying a good forecheck. It also force the other team to try a controlled zone entry instead of dumping the puck and it helps physical dmen like Emelin or Pateryn a lot. The result is more controlled zone exit and at the end of the season it means a little bit more goals. I don't think the difference is big though. Maybe 4 or 5 goals for the whole season at best or something like that.

 

[LaP]

Would they have won more than a handful if they had strong offensive depth that had been upgraded over the course of 4 years through trades and signings?

Probably not much.

All teams which gave about the same amount of goals than us are out of the playoffs. Very hard to win when you give 2.88 goals every games.

We gave 236 goals. The worse defense to make the playoffs gave 230 goals. It's Dallas the best offense of the league (by a comfortable margin). The 2nd worse defense to make the playoffs are the Wings with 224 goals. That's 12 goals less than us. Detroit actually scored 10 goals less than us so ... The 3rd worse defense to make the playoffs is Philadelphie with 218 goals. That's almost 20 goals less than us so almost 1 less goal every 4 games that's a lot. Flyers scored less goals than us too. All the other teams in the playoffs gave significantly less goals.

No teams that make the playoffs gave more goals than us.

4 teams that make the playoffs scored less goals than us (Anaheim, Detroit, Philadelphia and Minnesota). To be fair none of those teams are contender save for maybe Anaheim.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Probably not much.

All teams which gave about the same amount of goals than us are out of the playoffs. Very hard to win when you give 2.88 goals every games.

We gave 236 goals. The worse defense to make the playoffs gave 230 goals. It's Dallas the best offense of the league (by a comfortable margin). The 2nd worse defense to make the playoffs are the Wings with 224 goals. That's 12 goals less than us. Detroit actually scored 10 goals less than us so ... The 3rd worse defense to make the playoffs is Philadelphie with 218 goals. That's almost 20 goals less than us so almost 1 less goal every 4 games that's a lot. Flyers scored less goals than us too. All the other teams in the playoffs gave significantly less goals.

No teams that make the playoffs gave more goals than us.

4 teams that make the playoffs scored less goals than us (Anaheim, Detroit, Philadelphia and Minnesota). To be fair none of those teams are contender save for maybe Anaheim.

So improving our offense won't generate more wins in your opinion?

 

[LaP]

So improving our offense won't generate more wins in your opinion?

I did not say that.

Of course it will generate more wins. But we still don't make the playoffs while giving 2.88 goals every game unless we become hands down the best offense like Dallas.

Don't try to put words in my month please btw. I replied to a guy asking if an offense with more depth would provide more than an handful of wins. I don't think it would not while giving 2.88 goals every game. For that you would need to add talents like Seguin and Benn not just random top 6 depth.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I did not say that.

Of course it will generate more wins. But we still don't make the playoffs while giving 2.88 goals every game unless we become hands down the best offense like Dallas.

Don't try to put words in my month please btw. I replied to a guy asking if an offense with more depth would provide more than an handful of wins. I don't think it would not while giving 2.88 goals every game. For that you would need to add talents like Seguin and Benn not just random top 6 depth.

A "?" denotes an inquiry, not a statement, so I did not in fact put any words in your mouth. Rather, I suspect your incredibly defensive reaction is because you know exactly where my question, and your answer, is leading.

 

[LaP]

A "?" denotes an inquiry, not a statement, so I did not in fact put any words in your mouth. Rather, I suspect your incredibly defensive reaction is because you know exactly where my question, and your answer, is leading.

Nope i don't ...

[edit] Sorry i did not see the question mark at the end of your "question" starting with so ...

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Nope i don't ...

If an improved offense would have resulted in an insignificant amount of additional wins, which is what you've argued, then isn't it fair to say that your position is that goaltending was the only substantial cause of our historic collapse?

 

[LaP]

If an improved offense would have resulted in an insignificant amount of additional wins, which is what you've argued, then isn't it fair to say that your position is that goaltending was the only substantial cause of our historic collapse?

Nope. Not at all.

It's a mix of the 2. You need to score more goals but at the same time give less. Just one or the other wont be enough to contend and probably not enough to safely make the playoffs (unless you have a top of the league offense or top of the league defense).

I have absolutely no faith in MB and i think he had an awful year but while a good DG could improve the offense making it best in the league would probably require some good draft picks and development. We need a real number 1 as much as we need to improve the offense. imo i would go as far as saying it's a fact.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Nope. Not at all.

It's a mix of the 2. You need to score more goals but at the same time give less. Just one or the other wont be enough to contend and probably not enough to safely make the playoffs (unless you have a top of the league offense or top of the league defense).

Ok. Here's what you said about a hypothetically improved offense:

Of course it will generate more wins. But we still don't make the playoffs while giving 2.88 goals every game unless we become hands down the best offense like Dallas.

So with improved goaltending alone we still wouldn't have made the playoffs in your opinion?

 

[Michelangelo]

I rolled this graph up quickly, using available data. I used 5 game rolling averages (for each date, used the results from the 2 prior games and the 2 following games as well) to smooth out the results.

Goals for/against per game:

Can observe that both goaltending AND offense really fell off a cliff here after November, coincidently after Price went down for good. Green line is league average at 2.67 I believe.

Also, shots for/against per game:

Here we see that both shots for and against were above average up until 2016 where the blue and red lines intersected and consequently went in opposite directions. Likely correlation with all the injuries we racked up in the latter half of the season. With shot count remaining relatively steady high through December, this means that our shooting percentage really went down the crapper.

I would have liked to compile a similar graph for scoring chances for and against, but couldn't find the info per game yet.

 

[LaP]

So with improved goaltending alone we still wouldn't have made the playoffs in your opinion?

With price more than likely cause he is the best like Dallas offense.

But with an average number 1 probably not. We would have been closer maybe but still would have missed it. And if by luck we would have made it (like Detroit or Philadelphia) we would have lost in the 1st round anyway (with a worse draft pick).

MB had an awful summer but i think paying for a goalie would have been a waste of time. Price is our star and best player. If he's out it's over (the chance to win a cup). To contend we need to help him with a better offense but people need to accept he will remain the best player and the most important player of this team and he will remain pretty much essential to win a cup (unless we draft a Tavares or Seguin). How many teams won a cup with their back up lately anyway?

He almost missed the entire season. Wont happen every year. And if it does then we should let him go.

 

[FireBurningBin]

With price more than likely cause he is the best like Dallas offense.

But with an average number 1 probably not. We would have been closer maybe but still would have missed it. And if by luck we would have made it (like Detroit or Philadelphia) we would have lost in the 1st round anyway (with a worse draft pick).

MB had an awful summer but i think paying for a goalie would have been a waste of time. Price is our star and best player. If he's out it's over (the chance to win a cup). To contend we need to help him with a better offense but people need to accept he will remain the best player and the most important player of this team and he will remain pretty much essential to win a cup. How many teams won a cup with their back up lately anyway?

He almost missed the entire season. Wont happen every year. And if it does then we should let him go.

The importance of a backup is to make sure the ship doesn't sink by the time Price returns, not to carry said backup into the playoffs.

Given Price's injury history, it probably would have been a good idea to get a proven backup or at least be willing to pay for one. Obviously it is more complex than that given the nature of our information about Price's injury this season, but surely Scrivens wasn't the guy to get when it was apparent we needed to make an acquisition.

 

[RealityBytes]

Both are acceptable spellings actually. "Spelt" is less common in American English, where "Spelled" is the preferred spelling, while "Spelt" is the preferred spelling in British English.

Actually ... archaic only even in British English and not commonly used anymore. Elsewhere, not used at all.

It's as common as the use of gaol in North America.

However, we'll let it go that it was correct at one time.

 

[Whitesnake]

With price more than likely cause he is the best like Dallas offense.

But with an average number 1 probably not. We would have been closer maybe but still would have missed it. And if by luck we would have made it (like Detroit or Philadelphia) we would have lost in the 1st round anyway (with a worse draft pick).

MB had an awful summer but i think paying for a goalie would have been a waste of time. Price is our star and best player. If he's out it's over (the chance to win a cup). To contend we need to help him with a better offense but people need to accept he will remain the best player and the most important player of this team and he will remain pretty much essential to win a cup. How many teams won a cup with their back up lately?

How is it now? Is going after a better 2nd an option now? Are you confortable with Price not being injured anymore? Is Condon ready to go if Price goes for a lengthy period of time?

 

[LaP]

How is it now? Is going after a better 2nd an option now? Are you confortable with Price not being injured anymore? Is Condon ready to go if Price goes for a lengthy period of time?

Well i'm willing to give Condon a chance. He is a rookie. But he will need to do better next season (like the offense).

But MB needs to improve the offense first. Then if he still has space under the cap and Condon is still stopping only around 90.3% of the puck then he can look at a better and more experienced 2nd. But right now imo it's more important to improve the offense since Price is technically the number 1 and you need a number 1 to win a cup anyway.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

With price more than likely cause he is the best like Dallas offense.

Well ok then. So with an upgraded offense and no Price, we still miss the playoffs, but with Price and the same offense, we make them. My question then remains, how can you argue that it's a "combination of both" when you then say that improving one changes our season and the other doesn't?

MB had an awful summer but i think paying for a goalie would have been a waste of time.

How did MB have an awful summer?

Paying for a goalie would've been a waste of time.
Improving our offense wouldn't have changed anything.

So how was it awful exactly?

 

[LaP]

How did MB have an awful summer?

Honestly it's like asking someone why the sky is blue and the sun rise at the morning.

I'll ask the questions.

What kind of improvement to the offense do you think would be needed to win a cup while giving 2.88 goals every game (not blaming the goalies or the defense here just asking what would be required and how do we acquire it)? We would basically need to score around 3.3 or something goals a game to be safe.

How much would cost (assets and money) a number 2 able to win a cup with an offense good enough to win a cup with price but not good enough to win a cup with an average goalie?

BTW i don't care about making the playoffs if we can't win a cup. Every move should be made with the goal to win a cup.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Honestly it's like asking someone why the sky is blue and the sun rise at the morning.

I'm done.

Hmm, still seems better than having to walk someone through the internal inconsistencies of their position.

 

[LaP]

Hmm, still seems better than having to walk someone through the internal inconsistencies of their position.

Since the beginning i've been saying we need to score more goals and we need a good number 1 in the net for more than 10 games. But thanks for helping me walk thru my inconsistencies

 

[Lshap]

You need stop spewing ********. You've been pushing your "Condon/Scrivens are the reason why we suck" agenda ALL season. You did it on this board and on the main board. Now you're trying to backtrack because you've been proven wrong time and time again. Stop acting like this has been your stance all along.

You're always good for a laugh, even if you have no idea what you're talking about.