Premier League 2021-2022 part II
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Live in the Now
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Chimaera
same ol' Caps
AB13
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- Apr 29, 2019
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Rice is better than Fabinho and the best defensive midfielder in the world. He is also better than Partey, in general. Fabinho is also better than Partey, maybe. But not recently.
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Correct. Fab has been our second best player this season, if he gets hurt at any point we are absolutely f***ed.
AB13
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Fabinho absolutely isn’t as good as Rice. Not as good of a defender, not as good physically, and on a similar level on the ball. Rice has a larger passing range and is better at finding space to receive passes. Partey is also better than Fabinho in possession most of the time and a more agressive, and probably better 1v1 defender. Fabinho is better at blocking space and positioning.
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Nah. And I really think Declan Rice is very good. But nah. We play wide open football and are second best in goals allowed. You rarely see anyone beating Fabinho and scoring a goal, there's a good reason for that.
AB13
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Fabinho is a class player, of course. But I genuinely think Rice has been the best defensive midfielder in football for a couple years now. Liverpool conceding less goals than West Ham while playing wide open football isn’t an argument that automatically makes Fabinho better than Rice. He has arguably the best CB and GK in the world behind him and plays with 2 workhorses in midfield most of the time. Doesn’t generally have a harder role than Rice. And I think Rice is clearly a better defender and he never gets bullied by players with impressive physical tools, which can happen to Fabinho. Rice also has an even better understanding of angles and defensive positioning than Fabinho, for me.
Fabinho has actually had some worryingly poor showings this season. I remember the Brentford atrocity. He is still world class but I would possibly not trade him for Partey if you gave me the chance.
AB13
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Fabinho profile-wise, is almost my ideal blueprint for a complete DM. He can intercept, make tackles and recoveries and he can pass better than the average destroyer. No significant large weaknesses and versatile. So I’m not saying he isn’t good. But I do think he has not been as good as Rice for quite a long time, and that his physical deficiences start to become a little bit of a concern in the biggest games.
- Oct 3, 2013
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It’s not that. It’s that his has to do all the defense work in midfield by himself. Especially with no Wijnaldum this season. Fabinho has the best Cb and the best GK behind him, but Rice gets a lot more team help defending than Fabinho does. Moyes tactics in general more defense friendly. Fabinho’s biggest problem is LFC don’t have anyone to help him out (especially late in games) besides James Milner right now.
AB13
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Rice has to defend with more repetition than Fabinho though. Fabinho has workhorse central midfielders next to him who press high and win the ball. Liverpool don't give up that many central transition chances every game and even when they do Henderson is absolutely there to help Fabinho. Of course it's harder to defend as a 6 when your team plays a ultra-high line, in general, but Fabinho does not have to defend that many opportunities every game. Rice also doesn't play in a low block team where he can just sit off and block space.
Not that the roles they play are particularly important to the discussion either. Who is the better player and why? I think Rice fares better in almost every attribute I would want from a holding midfielder. I understand that Liverpool fans will argue otherwise, but based on my viewings I not think Fabinho has had a particularly great season by his own standards. Also don't think that the argument that Fabinho has been flawless defensively as of late holds up.
His team also has the ball ~60-65% of the match.
Fabinho is the better player, but I think some of the perceived limitations to Rice are really just limitations of West Ham that get projected on to him. Fabinho's technique is better and has more experience, but Rice can straight up play football, he's not just a destroyer. As that leash has been progressively loosened, all of those elements are more front and center - the ball progression, the range of passing, the short interplay. I think people will be surprised when he does move to a better side.
I've mentioned it before, and I'm only half serious, but if his name was Ricinho he'd be looked at a lot differently.
Blender
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Some stats instead of just "I feel like X player has done X thing better".
robertmac43
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Whoa what happened to HF while I was at the cottage?
Unreal game from Arsenal. I'm really starting to believe in the process. They keep getting good results in games that I would have once been worried about.
Brighton on the other hand..... They have been terrible the last 5. Thankfully they started hot and we shouldn't slide back into the relegation fight.
Unreal game from Arsenal. I'm really starting to believe in the process. They keep getting good results in games that I would have once been worried about.
Brighton on the other hand..... They have been terrible the last 5. Thankfully they started hot and we shouldn't slide back into the relegation fight.
AB13
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All of these say way way more about team possession, roles and tactics than how good a player is. These stats really are not relevant. Stats like ”passes attempted” are a reflection of how much you want the ball, and how much of the ball your team has. Pass completion% for example is all about how risk averse your passing is. Players in high pressing teams will have higher amounts of interceptions. Players in teams who defend deep will automatically block more shots than other DMs even if they are worse at blocking shots than players with less blocks in teams who play a different way.
Watching these players play is a good way to judge them. These stats, almost all of them, are not even a little bit relevant. The right thing to do is ignore most of what you have posted here.
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Vancouver Canucks
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Blender
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No.
When you post one set of observations about a player and someone else posts another set which says the exact opposite (as has happened on this page), stats are the only objective method we can use to make determinations. I'm sorry you don't like what the stats say, but they are what they are.
Accounting for play style, team quality, age, versatility...I think Rice compares very favorably among those players shown.
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